***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

geeksauce

Banjo String wrote: »

Ok. So it's my meter. How would Irish Water prosecute me for touching/damaging/tampering with, My own meter

If you finally concede that it's Irish Waters meter, why should I keep an eye on it on their behalf?

To avoid being prosecuted or fined or both for tampering with the meter.

JONJO THE MISER

I love there add that a letter will be sent out to every house in the country, it is incorrect, if i get a letter straight in the fire as i have my own well for water, it says a lot about the company when they cant even get a simple thing like this right.

Banjo String

geeksauce wrote: »

To avoid being prosecuted or fined or both for tampering with the meter.

But you said it's mine

What else do I own that they could prosecute me for if I tamper with it?

geeksauce

Banjo String wrote: »

But you said it's mine

What else do I own that they could prosecute me for if I tamper with it?

Yes it is your responsibility to ensure it isn't tampered with how do you not think this is the case? A quick google search of ESB meter tampering shows the pleading ignorance defence wont get you far, I would imagine it will be the exact same with the Water Meters. But sure hey knock your socks off and tamper away set the precedence for the country.

http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=17160:esb-meter-tampering-rife-&catid=23:news&Itemid=46

ebbsy

I have paid NPPR and Property tax, as well as PAYE. If they want my PPS number they can go and f**king get it from them.

cerastes

fxotoole wrote: »

Wrong.

It's not a private organisation. It's a semi state body.

Once again, it's not a private company.

Thats fine, I asked for clarification
I dont believe it was set up transparently or those appointed to run it have been appointed on that basis either. So without our best interests as a country and what peoples needs are, running it efficiently and fixing the leaks, the crypto,
It justs looks like a means to lever money people have out of their hands.

Ive said many times Im happy to manage my use, which I already do, even pay for the service, but this smacks of deceit and a con where managing the resource and running it effectively and efficiently isnt the goal, otherwise how can anyone explain the sums of money being bandied around for consulting on this?

chasm

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

I love there add that a letter will be sent out to every house in the country, it is incorrect, if i get a letter straight in the fire as i have my own well for water, it says a lot about the company when they cant even get a simple thing like this right.

They are sending a letter/application pack to every home in the country. The details are in a link I posted earlier. This form is used to state whether you are a customer of IW or not( ie you have your own well and septic tank) and to apply for any allowances you may be due if you are a customer.

bloopy

Over the last 3 years i have been getting increasingly sick and tired of being threatened every time the ****ers at the top want to push something through. Threatening us with Revenue or the IMF or whatever they can use to bully us into submission.
If they are giving the allowance for every home anyway, then the PPS number should not come into it.
I don't like this and find it very intimidating.
Also, why do people with private wells have to give this information - do they have plans for these in the future also.

knarkypants

fxotoole wrote: »

Wrong.




It's not a private organisation. It's a semi state body.



Once again, it's not a private company.

Really? It states at the bottom of their website:

"Irish Water. Private Company Limited by Shares. Registered Office Colvill House, 24-26 Talbot Street, Dublin 1. Registered in Ireland. Registered No. 530363"


https://www.water.ie/help-centre/contact-us/

Chips Lovell

It's a disgrace. Is this what James Connolly and Patrick Pearse died for?

chasm

bloopy wrote: »

Over the last 3 years i have been getting increasingly sick and tired of being threatened every time the ****ers at the top want to push something through. Threatening us with Revenue or the IMF or whatever they can use to bully us into submission.
If they are giving the allowance for every home anyway, then the PPS number should not come into it.
I don't like this and find it very intimidating.
Also, why do people with private wells have to give this information - do they have plans for these in the future also.

People with private wells AND private septic tanks only have to fill out certain sections of the form, from reading the guide it looks like they do not have to provide pps number. Apparently once they have the declaration from you that you are not an IW customer they will not contact you again

delw

Ogham wrote: »

As I mentioned earlier - they are proposing to charge €424 a year for non repsonders without meters. The unmetered charge if you are single and reply with a PPS no. will be €176 a year. http://www.moneyguideireland.com/unmetered-water-charges-how-will-it-work.html

"If householders do not respond to these Irish Water letters – it is proposed to charge unmetered homes the full amount (water and waste water) for two adults without the free allowance – i.e. an annual charge of €424." (from link above )

What if there are more than two adults & children in the unmetered homes.Does that mean you won't be charged more than €424 per year no matter how much water you use?

Ogham

delw wrote: »

"If householders do not respond to these Irish Water letters – it is proposed to charge unmetered homes the full amount (water and waste water) for two adults without the free allowance – i.e. an annual charge of €424." (from link above )

What if there are more than two adults & children in the unmetered homes.Does that mean you won't be charged more than €424 per year no matter how much water you use?

That's what is proposed - but that €424 charge is almost the same as a 4 adult unmetered household (€482) where they have filled in the "application" form.
A 2 adult unmetered household who complete the form will be charged €278 a year.

geeksauce

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

It's a disgrace. Is this what James Connolly and Patrick Pearse died for?

Didn't they die for a free Ireland, one that could govern itself? Our government have decided we should pay for water so yes I suppose you could make that argument.

Phoebas

cerastes wrote: »

No charge if you dont apply, nor do you need to provide them with your PPSN, yet if you dont, you get penalised??
So you arent obligated to give it to them, but if you dont, you suffer a penalty? for what???
the whole "free" allowance reeks.

I want to know why they want or need thee PPSN?
This idea its to administer the "free" allowance is a con, the allowance is a means to hold something over you to intimidate people into giving over these details voluntarily.

Is there some consumer or EU regulation against this?? penalising a person for witholding private personal information from a private company which they cant reasonably require.

Asking for a PPS number for each child free allowance seems reasonable. It seems like a simple mechanism to help prevent people claiming an allowance for children who don't live in the household. I'm not sure why they want it for the adults - maybe to prevent people from claiming a free allowance for second homes.

I still don't quite get why people get so upset about it. I especially don't get how it could be reasonably described as intimidation.

Yawns

Where I have declared I am a customer of Irish Water, I am confirming I have the authority to open an account at the premises and that I am liable for water charges at the premises.

I'm renting, I don't have the authority and can't get in touch with my LL. It's not covered under my lease. If IW don't have my name, will this not just end up like the whole TV Licence thing?

Ogham

Yawns wrote: »

I'm renting, I don't have the authority and can't get in touch with my LL. It's not covered under my lease. If IW don't have my name, will this not just end up like the whole TV Licence thing?

You use the water - you are liable.

K-9

geeksauce wrote: »

but it is, same as the ESB meter on the side of your house is yours.

I don't think it is though. If you move house you don't take it with you.

K-9

knarkypants wrote: »

Really? It states at the bottom of their website:

"Irish Water. Private Company Limited by Shares. Registered Office Colvill House, 24-26 Talbot Street, Dublin 1. Registered in Ireland. Registered No. 530363"


https://www.water.ie/help-centre/contact-us/

Only companies that are stock exchange listed are public. Basically, public in this sense, has no relevance to to your point.

A semi-state, indeed off hand I can't think of any exceptions, would tend to be a private company.

Hopefully people will take on board this publicly available information and not see it as some type of conspiracy

SaveOurLyric

sarkozy wrote: »

This is precisely my issue. I think incentives for people to conserve water are necessary. But any system introduced to do that needs to be revenue neutral. So, yes, I want the Government to give me back the tax I already pay for our water services.

Why should it be revenue neutral? The government needs more of your money.
They cannot afford to provide you water anymore with the tax you are paying. So yes you will pay you water charge, but you taxes will not increase to pay for it. You are not paying for it twice.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

geeksauce wrote: »

but it is, same as the ESB meter on the side of your house is yours.

Where did you get that notion from? The electricity meter is the property of ESB Networks. It is neither yours nor your supply company's meter.

faceman

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Why should it be revenue neutral? The government needs more of your money.
They cannot afford to provide you water anymore with the tax you are paying. So yes you will pay you water charge, but you taxes will not increase to pay for it. You are not paying for it twice.

It can be buttered up in any way they want. But this is double taxation/increased taxation designs to minimise default on payment.

Given how liable the householder is being made for waterworks maintenance I fail to see how this is an investment in our water infrastructure

this is an increased tax that will be sidelined by whatever decrease in income tax comes through in the budget

geeksauce

K-9 wrote: »

I don't think it is though. If you move house you don't take it with you.

Of course you don't as that would be completely ridiculous there would be another meter at your new house, plus if you attempted to take it with you

1. you would be a complete clown to even think that it would be a plausible thing to do, even suggesting that here seems a bit ridiculous tbh and makes me wonder what exactly you were thinking when you came up with that nonsense.

2. Taking it with you or attempting to take it with you would most likely result in a serious injury due to you know the electricity!!

3. You would be prosecuted for tampering with it

Banjo String

So the meter belongs to......?


You can do it............

Larbre34

The meter equipment remains the property of Irish Water. If it were damaged or obsolete it would be a matter for them to replace it. It is insured by them. It is maintained by them.

obezyana

How long does it take em to install a meter? They are outside my house with barriers digging up the ground. Them barriers look good enough to keep my dogs off my garden out the back.....I wonder where I could get hold of around 3 of them.

geeksauce

Larbre34 wrote: »

The meter equipment remains the property of Irish Water. If it were damaged or obsolete it would be a matter for them to replace it. It is insured by them. It is maintained by them.

And if it is damaged or tampered with the person being billed for the water will be prosecuted.

Banjo String

geeksauce wrote: »

And if it is damaged or tampered with the person being billed for the water will be prosecuted.

Really?


Even though it's located on the public pathways and roads of the country that anyone can access?

It's not the same as your gas meter or ESB meter which is usually in or on private property.

Do you know who does be on your road all day, or what they do be doing? Because I don't.

mickydoomsux

Banjo String wrote: »

Really?


Even though it's located on the public pathways and roads of the country that anyone can access?

It's not the same as your gas meter or ESB meter which is usually in or on private property.

Do you know who does be on your road all day, or what they do be doing? Because I don't.

Brb, I'm off to steal some manhole covers and use the airtight "shure anyone could have done that, they're in a public place" defence when I get caught.

seamus

Banjo String wrote: »

Really?


Even though it's located on the public pathways and roads of the country that anyone can access?

It's not the same as your gas meter or ESB meter which is usually in or on private property.

Do you know who does be on your road all day, or what they do be doing? Because I don't.

In a civil case where you're being sued for damages, the outcome of the case only weighs on the balance of probabilities.

If the meter outside your house is intentionally damaged, it's most probable that you did it, because who else would?

Therefore they'd have a good chance to win a civil case against you.