***ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER CHARGE RELATED POST HERE***

Timberrrrrrrr

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Na, you're not worth it.
What is it with all you lads anyway? That's 3 or 4 of ya's now going 'report me report me'...
I'm just waiting for the 'na na na na na'.

Because you insist on making these baseless accusations against posters without a shred of evidence.

Fr. Ned

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Because you insist on making these baseless accusations against posters without a shred of evidence.

As I said earlier, you lot are too cowardly to admit your interest in water charges.
Trough swillers don't like to admit it.

dxhound2005

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Because you insist on making these baseless accusations against posters without a shred of evidence.

You're just a quango.

Fr. Ned

Jesus, the childish sh1te from them now.....:rolleyes:

dxhound2005

Fr. Ned wrote: »

As I said earlier, you lot are too cowardly to admit your interest in water charges.
Trough swillers don't like to admit it.

You had some swill from the trough yourself.

eeepaulo

seamus wrote: »

Agreed. Where you hit problems is when you're borrowing money for day-to-day spending. It's effectively using your credit card to pay your electricity bills every month. Unless you change your financial model you drop into a debt spiral very quickly.

Colm Mccarthy said

If these were not a factor, the accumulated budget deficits -- the normal source of debt -- would total about 80 per cent of GDP, a common figure in the EU and a level that should be sustainable. It is the extra 40 per cent deriving from the rescue of bank creditors that has pushed the total into the red zone and destroyed the credit-worthiness of the Irish Exchequer. Even the huge Irish deficits of recent years have not been enough to destroy credit-worthiness on their own because the initial debt level when the crisis struck in 2008 was low.
Indeed, Ireland ran budget surpluses in every year but one since eurozone membership commenced in 1999 and was one of the few eurozone countries that stayed within both the deficit and debt limits of the Stability and Growth Pact in every year up to 2007.

I wish our politicians had the same political appetite to deal with europe as it does in applying pressure to the people of ireland.

listermint

seamus wrote: »

Agreed. Where you hit problems is when you're borrowing money for day-to-day spending. It's effectively using your credit card to pay your electricity bills every month. Unless you change your financial model you drop into a debt spiral very quickly.

Well I'm sure our taxes were paying for it while we were in the black. But they're not anymore.

Think of it this way - a landlord has four tenants and they all agree that rather than an equal split, each tenant will pay rent will be based on their income, which the landlords uses to pay all of the bills. One guy pay €2k, another pays €1k and the other two pay €500 each.
Everything ticks along nicely.
Then the guy paying €2k loses his job and suddenly he can only afford €500.
The landlord discovers he's €1500 down and has to borrow now to cover the bills.
The bills are still being covered, but not by the rental income, even though the other 3 tenants have seen no change in how much rent they're paying.

Obviously then when the landlord tells them they're going to have to cover the bills themselves, they get pissey because their costs have gone up and their rent hasn't gone down. Even though it's perfectly clear why.

Countries "always" borrow money to survive and run their day to day businesses, that’s how it’s done. The last time one got to the point where they didn’t have to (when the US under Clinton was within reach of eliminating their national debt), the economists went a little nuts trying to pursuade the US government not to do so lest they topple the world economy:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/10/21/141510617/what-if-we-paid-off-the-debt-the-secret-government-report

Fr. Ned

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You had some swill from the trough yourself.

Do explain?

Timberrrrrrrr

Fr. Ned wrote: »

As I said earlier, you lot are too cowardly to admit your interest in water charges.
Trough swillers don't like to admit it.

What's that supposed to mean? You really have a bee in your bonnet over public service don't you? Did they turn you down for a job? Awful bitterness dripping from your posts against people you you don't know.

dxhound2005

eeepaulo wrote: »

Colm Mccarthy said


I wish our politicians had the same political appetite to deal with europe as it does in applying pressure to the people of ireland.

Do you think it would be sensible for the next government to abolish motor tax, bin charges, water charges and property tax? Some politicians want to do this and all that is needed is enough people to vote for them.

bladespin

dxhound2005 wrote: »

OK for the sake of peace I'll agree with you. Income tax paid for €1 billion to provide water. An extra €1 billion was borrowed to pay for Social Welfare. But it doesn't have to be like that. People can pay for part of the cost of water directly. It's hardly rocket science, lots of countries are doing it.

Ah right so you couldn't back it up, speculation dressed as fact :P

Believe me I know just what a cliff we fell of when the bubble burst, I just wanted to be clear that when they talk of tax savings and conservation we're being sold a pup.

Also, I'm sorry, but if lots of pro IW posters were jumping off a cliff would you join in just because others were doing so? And would you really attack other posters for not doing so, maybe thinking a little differently?

Timberrrrrrrr

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Jesus, the childish sh1te from them now.....:rolleyes:

Oh the irony :rolleyes:

Fr. Ned wrote: »

As I said earlier, you lot are too cowardly to admit your interest in water charges.
Trough swillers don't like to admit it.

Fr. Ned

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

What's that supposed to mean? You really have a bee in your bonnet over public service don't you? Did they turn you down for a job? Awful bitterness dripping from your posts against people you you don't know.

Me???
Work in the public service????
ROTFL, not if I was starving to death.....
I'm a contributor mate, not a taker.

eeepaulo

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Do you think it would be sensible for the next government to abolish motor tax, bin charges, water charges and property tax? Some politicians want to do this and all that is needed is enough people to vote for them.

No i dont

Timberrrrrrrr

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Me???
Work in the public service????
ROTFL, not if I was starving to death.....
I'm a contributor mate, not a taker.

Lol ok

dxhound2005

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

What's that supposed to mean? You really have a bee in your bonnet over public service don't you? Did they turn you down for a job? Awful bitterness dripping from your posts against people you you don't know.

Think of the shame if someone in that household ever got a job in the PS. Or if any of the extended family could be a Guard or a nurse.

dxhound2005

eeepaulo wrote: »

No i dont

That makes you a sheeple.

Fr. Ned

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Think of the shame if someone in that household ever got a job in the PS. Or if any of the extended family could be a Guard or a nurse.

Oh there are some like that ok.....
Chalk and cheese me auld flower, chalk and cheese.

eeepaulo

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That makes you a sheeple.

If the government turned around to me and said that although you pay motor tax and duty on petrol, we are also going to monitor your odometer and charge you based on that, i would call that additional taxation.

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

This fine body of men are leading the "protests" in housing estates in Dundalk. The local gardai on the scene will be well familiar with some of them.

http://www.republicanunity.org/rnu-archive-2/commemorations/rnu-easter-commemoration-dundalk-2014/

You're seriously insinuating that the protesters (prob ordinary decent people, fed up with this corrupt Govt, and this shambles of a company) are members of some republican paramilitary groups?


I'd ask for some kind of proof or a link, but I imagine you'd be unable to give me one.

Poor attempt tbh.

listermint

Lets really cut to chase here.

Forget the freeman nonsense (on both sides) forget the no contract no consent crap.

Forget the paying through other taxation for a second and all that stuff.

The brass tacks are that by paying for this service ,Anyone that signs up and pays for it. They are by proxy validating the setting up of what is an absolute and not in a light way, Shambles of an entity. Irish Water by far as to be one of the biggest jokes any government has played on an electorate in decades.

Installing a man with a known abysmal record in all sorts of Public Projects at director and management level.

Attempting to hide behind non FOI compliance.

Hiding the fact they would have 4000 staff that would now have nothing to do.

Brand new offices

Brand new gyms

Pats on the back with laughter classes for staff

Beyond the beyond dubious selection of contractors to install the meters, involving other government projects (NAMA) and debt write downs. With out very own DOB at the heart of it all.

Complete lack of clarity behind the selection process of such contractors.

Out of hand exclusion of international tenders which on face appear cheaper and more efficient.

Back tracking on the whole FOI but only when it was found out by whistleblowers

A Minister who jetted of to Europe but not before filling the electorate full of lies about knowledge of or signing off on massive public expenditure on consultant fees.

Oh and not to mention the awarding of the administration of all this by an organisation that was chosen on the basis that they have all these facilities at hand to administer the project but hey look all of sudden the same organisation needs Millions upon millions upon millions just to set up a billing system.



So in short regardless of how you feel about some of the side supporting the dont pay aspect of this whole thing. One really needs to ask themselves.


DO I want to pay, because my paying for this is validation for every single aspect of this setup from start to finish. All the scandals above, all the scandals to come and Shady backroom deals.

I mean a glorified taxi driver was a board member!??

Come on folks you dont have to be a conspiracy theorist to see what utter contempt the whole electorate has been treated with this. Enough of the throwing out names across either side of the fence.

I have no qualms paying for this service. But under no circumstance should or would i pay based on the setup and the mess that we have had in the past two years.

It is depressing stuff , more depressing that people are willing to pay it anyway despite the knowledge we have about it.


Wake up folks. Just wake up.

dxhound2005

Banjo String wrote: »

You're seriously insinuating that the protesters (prob ordinary decent people, fed up with this corrupt Govt, and this shambles of a company) are members of some republican paramilitary groups?


I'd ask for some kind of proof or a link, but I imagine you'd be unable to give me one.

Poor attempt tbh.

Have a look at this.

http://www.republicanunity.org/stand-firm-against-water-charges-now-is-the-time-to-unite/

These fascists are also pictured in two different housing estates this week interfering with workers. Gardai on site. In the Dundalk Argus.

dxhound2005

listermint wrote: »

Lets really cut to chase here.

Forget the freeman nonsense (on both sides) forget the no contract no consent crap.

Forget the paying through other taxation for a second and all that stuff.

The brass tacks are that by paying for this service ,Anyone that signs up and pays for it. They are by proxy validating the setting up of what is an absolute and not in a light way, Shambles of an entity. Irish Water by far as to be one of the biggest jokes any government has played on an electorate in decades.

Installing a man with a known abysmal record in all sorts of Public Projects at director and management level.

Attempting to hide behind non FOI compliance.

Hiding the fact they would have 4000 staff that would now have nothing to do.

Brand new offices

Brand new gyms

Pats on the back with laughter classes for staff

Beyond the beyond dubious selection of contractors to install the meters, involving other government projects (NAMA) and debt write downs. With out very own DOB at the heart of it all.

Complete lack of clarity behind the selection process of such contractors.

Out of hand exclusion of international tenders which on face appear cheaper and more efficient.

Back tracking on the whole FOI but only when it was found out by whistleblowers

A Minister who jetted of to Europe but not before filling the electorate full of lies about knowledge of or signing off on massive public expenditure on consultant fees.

Oh and not to mention the awarding of the administration of all this by an organisation that was chosen on the basis that they have all these facilities at hand to administer the project but hey look all of sudden the same organisation needs Millions upon millions upon millions just to set up a billing system.



So in short regardless of how you feel about some of the side supporting the dont pay aspect of this whole thing. One really needs to ask themselves.


DO I want to pay, because my paying for this is validation for every single aspect of this setup from start to finish. All the scandals above, all the scandals to come and Shady backroom deals.

I mean a glorified taxi driver was a board!??

Come on folks you dont have to be a conspiracy theorist to see what utter contempt the whole electorate has been treated with this. Enough of the throwing out names across either side of the fence.

I have no qualms paying for this service. But under no circumstance should or would i pay based on the setup and the mess that we have had in the past two years.

It is depressing stuff , more depressing that people are willing to pay it anyway despite the knowledge we have about it.


Wake up folks. Just wake up.

Try to keep it brief. Quick question. Will you pay the bill when it comes?

listermint

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Try to keep it brief. Quick question. Will you pay the bill when it comes?

No i will not, The sign up letter is in the bin.

Fr. Ned

listermint wrote: »

Lets really cut to chase here.

Forget the freeman nonsense (on both sides) forget the no contract no consent crap.

Forget the paying through other taxation for a second and all that stuff.

The brass tacks are that by paying for this service ,Anyone that signs up and pays for it. They are by proxy validating the setting up of what is an absolute and not in a light way, Shambles of an entity. Irish Water by far as to be one of the biggest jokes any government has played on an electorate in decades.

Installing a man with a known abysmal record in all sorts of Public Projects at director and management level.

Attempting to hide behind non FOI compliance.

Hiding the fact they would have 4000 staff that would now have nothing to do.

Brand new offices

Brand new gyms

Pats on the back with laughter classes for staff

Beyond the beyond dubious selection of contractors to install the meters, involving other government projects (NAMA) and debt write downs. With out very own DOB at the heart of it all.

Complete lack of clarity behind the selection process of such contractors.

Out of hand exclusion of international tenders which on face appear cheaper and more efficient.

Back tracking on the whole FOI but only when it was found out by whistleblowers

A Minister who jetted of to Europe but not before filling the electorate full of lies about knowledge of or signing off on massive public expenditure on consultant fees.

Oh and not to mention the awarding of the administration of all this by an organisation that was chosen on the basis that they have all these facilities at hand to administer the project but hey look all of sudden the same organisation needs Millions upon millions upon millions just to set up a billing system.



So in short regardless of how you feel about some of the side supporting the dont pay aspect of this whole thing. One really needs to ask themselves.


DO I want to pay, because my paying for this is validation for every single aspect of this setup from start to finish. All the scandals above, all the scandals to come and Shady backroom deals.

I mean a glorified taxi driver was a board!??

Come on folks you dont have to be a conspiracy theorist to see what utter contempt the whole electorate has been treated with this. Enough of the throwing out names across either side of the fence.

I have no qualms paying for this service. But under no circumstance should or would i pay based on the setup and the mess that we have had in the past two years.

It is depressing stuff , more depressing that people are willing to pay it anyway despite the knowledge we have about it.


Wake up folks. Just wake up.

The majority electorate are quite confused.
They know that the FFailures screwed up the country but believe that there's nothing else but the blueshirts.
Sheep, running from tweedledum to tweedledee.
The people who gleefully accept these charges are the people you mention above.
Trough.....full.......

dxhound2005

listermint wrote: »

No i will not, The sign up letter is in the bin.

So all that cut to the chase palaver is just another Freeman dressed up in verbiage.

Fr. Ned

listermint wrote: »

No i will not, The sign up letter is in the bin.

The courts will be filled to the brim when this company start taking people there.
No revenue boot boys on this one.

listermint

dxhound2005 wrote: »

So all that cut to the chase palaver is just another Freeman dressed up in verbiage.

No im afraid DX, you are wrong.

This has nothing to do with lefties or righties or anyone in between.

We are witnessing a robbery on the ordinary tax worker. I am an ordinary PAYE worker and we have to challenge this.

Lets sat they lose the CEO, lets say they write it into law that this entity cannot be sold without a return to the electorate to give a mandate for sale.

These things may go some way to alleviating the complete contempt we have received with its setup.

And your snide remarks about calling someone a freeman because they dont agree with complete nonsense shows more about the intelligence of your argument than you shall ever know.

dxhound2005

Fr. Ned wrote: »

The courts will be filled to the brim when this company start taking people there.
No revenue boot boys on this one.

Thousands go through the courts every year for not paying their TV licence. Hardly a word about it except occasionaly when some martyr decides not to pay the fine and ends up in prison.

Banjo String

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Have a look at this.

http://www.republicanunity.org/stand-firm-against-water-charges-now-is-the-time-to-unite/

These fascists are also pictured in two different housing estates this week interfering with workers. Gardai on site. In the Dundalk Argus.

But that's completely misleading.

Loads of groups have been calling for protests tbh. United left alliance, people before profit, socialist party, Sinn fein, various non political groups.


All you've did was post a link to a webpage, one that suited your agenda, that has a photo of two people holding a placard, who quite frankly could belong to any of the groups I listed above, said photo used on the website you linked to. Hardly evidence tbh.

I'm not convinced.