Daredevil [Netflix/Disney - Spoilers]

Slydice

Shane St. wrote: »

That was awesome. Surprised by the level of violence. That scene of the punisher in the jail was more violent than what you would find in Game Of Thrones

I think the red wedding in game of thrones is more violent.

I think that was very very violent.

*rewatches red wedding scene*

soooo violent

pixelburp

First episode thoughts: a really explosive, energetic first episode that re-introduced the world of Daredevil, coming with a stark reminder that whatever status quo was established with the incarceration of Fisk, it would be quickly demolished by someone just as bad. And as modern a broadcast medium Netflix might be, the second season's first episode was a quintessential case of a series quickly establishing the new normal, only to immediately set a bomb underneath it all (with the exception of the new success of Nelson & Murdock; I'm sure though that happy triumvirate will soon crumble as well).

I expressed a hope that perhaps the Iron Fist adaptation might be a little more light-hearted than the two released Netflix-Marvel shows so far, but having recently finished Jessica Jones, you can see how it and Daredevil both explore variations of the same 'adult', grittier tone - neither are light-hearted but they do have different tones. Daredevil is clearly a more epic tale about a city's soul and the soul of its self-anointed protector; while Jessica Jones was a more personal drama about trauma and recovery.

iguana

My first thoughts a few minutes into this was how bad Jessica Jones was in comparison. Those scenes, after the cold opening, of Matt and Foggy just walking and talking reminded me of just how enjoyable Cox and Henson are to watch and the great chemistry the two have. Compared to Ritter and Taylor, the two just pop and bring so much more to their characters.

I did enjoy the tie in at the end though, with Nelson going to work for Hogarth.

My thoughts after the last episode were that

I wanted to see something more of Frank at the end. There were some great set up scenes of him in his shed, spray painting his vest and listening to the scanner. And there were hundreds of Hand soldiers on the rooftop and Elektra only killed a fraction of them. After her 'death' Matt should have faced certain death himself against all those ninjas and then Frank's appearance would have been much more epic. Instead there seemed to be just 4 or 5 ninjas for him to kill and that was really disappointing for Frank's last scene.

Links234

It was a horribly mixed bag.

It felt seriously anticlimactic, perhaps because it started so incredibly strong with Frank and anything related to the Punisher arc, the court case, Wilson Fisk and the prison scenes, the cover ups, the district attorney... All of it was just 10/10. I can't say enough about Jon Bernthal, he was an absolute monster! It's the first time we've really seen Frank Castle done right, and he was set up in such a way that we don't see him as a protagonist, all our focus is on them trying to protect a client, Karen trying to cover his whereabouts in the hospital, and being stalked down by The Punisher. We're shown the intense feeling of being the quarry, far before we ever get introduced to Frank as a character, before we get to know him at all and sympathise with him. The ideological conflict between him and Daredevil was one of the most interesting things in the show so far.

Which brings me to the worst of it, Elektra, the Hand, black sky, Stick and all the rest of it. It felt shoehorned in, took away from the main storyline, and by the end completely took over the plot in a way that felt out of sync with the rest of the story development. It's like the plot just meanders off in the last few episodes and becomes about something completely different. The tone of the show is in stark difference between these two elements, the rather serious and gritty Punisher arc and the mystical mumbo-jumbo of the black sky Elektra/ninja arc, they really don't gel at all. Even the fight scenes feel completely different, the fight with the bikers or the prison fight felt raw, visceral, like something out of a Korean thriller like Oldboy or the like, while the ninja fights were so poorly lit and felt particularly badly choreographed. They even seemed to ditch the entire ideological conflict between Daredevil and the Punisher, something that had been by far the biggest driving point of Matt Murdock's character development, one episode he's desparate not to let Frank kill a man regardless of what that man has done, and at the end Matt's actually A-OK with not only Frank shooting off scores of enemies he's fighting, but with Elektra stabbing her way through them as well. He goes from principled to the point of conflict with other self-appointed heroes, to going "Eh, as long as I'm not personally getting my hands dirty" while bodies are dropping all around him.

I've gone from thinking "Could've done without Elektra" to "**** this whole plotline!"

They really, really should have left all of that out, focused solely on the Punisher plotline. Part of the reason it felt so anticlimactic is that everything that it had been building up to, the ideological conflict, the Blacksmith, trying to bring people to justice vs. dishing it out yourself, it all just petered out. What would have happened, what I felt the show really was building to, was a 3-way confrontation between Daredevil, Punisher and Blacksmith, with Matt resolute that he was not going to let Frank kill him, not after failing to save the Irish gangster on the rooftop, and ultimately ending with a courtcase where the Blacksmith is sent down and coverups by the DA, what had happened to Frank exposed. The entire storyline, up until when they threw in the mystical ninja bollocks, was all about ideology. The big confrontation between Daredevil and Punisher had Frank gave Matt an ultimatum to kill him or he'd kill the gangster, and Frank won on his terms. If it had ended with Matt beating Frank, and then beating the Blacksmith on his own terms, on his principles, it would've brought closure to the entire conflict the season was about.

But instead, that was chucked out the window.

So yeah, I'm feeling particularly annoyed at how the series ended, it was such a let down after what was an unbelievable first half.

There wasn't enough Punisher. He was incredible.

Mickeroo

I finished it last night, thought it was better than season 1 over all but found it really lost a lot of steam in the last 2 episodes. I didn't really feel that they knew how to end it tbh.

Good season overall, fantastic build up but with not a very good pay off at the end unfortunately and that goes for both The Punisher plotline and the hand stuff.

iguana

I got the impression that to some extent the Elektra/Hand plot was in part about starting to expand the scope of the MCU. This is a world where the Hulk and Asgardians are known to be factual. Where many people accept that a man can bend someone else's will to his own with his words. And Matt himself has extra-human powers.

Yet Matt repeatedly expressed complete disbelief at the idea of any kind of magic. As far as he's concerned that's 'just mysticism' even though plot is pointing to Stick's story being true, with Nobu's resurrection.

Thus far magic has not existed in the MCU, come November it will, and this was a way of preparing the audience for that.

entropi

iguana wrote: »

Thus far magic has not existed in the MCU, come November it will, and this was a way of preparing the audience for that.

But it already has, in the form of powers used by both Loki (illusion and sorcery among others) and Scarlet Witch (chaos magic and reality manipulation).

iguana

Neither of those are magic both come from use of an infinity stone which is advanced alien technology. And MCU Wanda has telekinesis and mind warping powers, not the reality manipulation powers of comic book Wanda who is a mutant and a trained witch, using witchcraft to enhance her control of her powers. (Or at least she always was a mutant, they've retconned that now.) All sorts of powers exist in the MCU, though how much Matt knows about the inhumans is unknown, but they are all rooted in the science of that universe. Magic, as in mystical realities, demons, spells, etc, hasn't been shown to be real yet in the MCU and Matt acted as if the idea was preposterous whenever it was mentioned.

OwaynOTT

iguana wrote: »

Neither of those are magic both come from use of an infinity stone which is advanced alien technology. And MCU Wanda has telekinesis and mind warping powers, not the reality manipulation powers of comic book Wanda who is a mutant and a trained witch, using witchcraft to enhance her control of her powers. (Or at least she always was a mutant, they've retconned that now.) All sorts of powers exist in the MCU, though how much Matt knows about the inhumans is unknown, but they are all rooted in the science of that universe. Magic, as in mystical realities, demons, spells, etc, hasn't been shown to be real yet in the MCU and Matt acted as if the idea was preposterous whenever it was mentioned.

That little pool that Thor has his visions in Age of Ultron.

Just finished season 2 , they did so many things in 13 episodes other shows would have spent 3-4 seasons teasing you about it's unreal. I had low expectations after he "got the suit" at the end of season one, and the punisher angle this time but I was blown away by the writing so much much so I fully expect spiderman next year..... ok maybe thats pushing it

Stone Deaf 4evr

Mickeroo wrote: »

I finished it last night, thought it was better than season 1 over all but found it really lost a lot of steam in the last 2 episodes. I didn't really feel that they knew how to end it tbh.

Good season overall, fantastic build up but with not a very good pay off at the end unfortunately and that goes for both The Punisher plotline and the hand stuff.

I thought it was pretty much excellent overall, the only criticism i'd have is that perhaps there were too many fight scenes against the hand, which slightly lessened the impact of them. A lot of that comes from me binge watching though, if you were getting fed an episode a week, you wouldn't even notice that.

What I would have much preferred is if they had separated them into two different things -

Elektra, Black Sky, the Hand

being in one season and The Punisher being in the other. It just felt like they spent far too much time on something that didn't really have a pay off. Plus I really didn't feel that

Elektra being Black Sky

had that much of an impact on me.

TonyD79

Unearthly wrote: »

Thought it was superb. In my opinion these Netflix superhero shows put the others like Arrow, flash etc to shame.

That's how you do action

It certainly puts Arrow to shame but not the Flash which is fantastic.

fin12

I'm finding the violence and torture really hard to watch this season, I can't remember this much violence being in season 1, the 2nd last episode was disgusting when the old guy was being tortured, the violence is really turning me off the show.

One thing for certain; I hope every season has a corridor fight that is a homage to season one. But each one just amps up the craziness of it.

Brief_Lives

Wonderful season, just finished it after dragging it out as long as I could...
Actions scenes are the best on the small screen I have ever seen... excellent timing of the story..
They fit so much in, in one season... And the Acting/castinig is second to none...

Thargor

Punisher spinoff ordered, great news:

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/29/punisher-marvel-netflix

sheep?

Sweet. Delighted for Bernthal.

DubTony

I let this go and didn't watch season 1 until a few weeks ago. I can take or leave the whole superhero thing, but I was intrigued. I was shocked by how good it was. That Fisk character was played perfectly by D'Onofrio. But then if anyone could pull it off it was him. Kudos to the casting people. I watched the season in 5 days.

So I eagerly jumped into season 2, only to see that the best they could do was cast Jon Bernthal as a mumbling lout. Obviously I was wrong about it being Marvel for smart people. Bullets, bodies and blood just don't make a TV series anymore. 10 episodes and a month in this hasn't even found its place in my regular schedule. Poor show imo. I guess I'm just too old to be drawn to the gore, weak storyline and what turned out to be one dimensional characters.

Sudden Valley

I have to agree, season 1 was significantly better than season 2. Fisk is such an interesting character and the portrayal of him was good that the Punisher and Elektra were no substitutes.

pixelburp

So just belatedly finished up last night, and my overall thoughts are that it wasn't half as focused or intriguing as season 1: in fact I'd go so far as to say it went completely off the rails in the last 3 or so episodes, making a tonal about-turn and crowbarring in some generic, uninteresting mysticism that borderline sank the season.

Last year operated as an effective, taught crime drama merged with street-level superheroics that yielded decent tension and moulded its characters into something vaguely relatable. The Hand demonstrated no clear, tangible threat or stakes, only a constant waffling about a 'war' that had no demonstrable affect on anyone, seemingly only involving ninja clichés running around New York without anyone noticing. To be blunt, it all went a bit sh*te, to the point where I'd seriously debate continuing with the show if that's the direction it's going to take. Or at least the manner in which it applies that direction.

The Punisher plotline was a much better one - just about - despite Castles presence and lack of actual depth. He was never anything more than a grumbling, one-dimensional thug, but his presence was at least a useful catalyst for the characters that entered his orbit; an agent of chaos that served a direct purpose and held a mirror up to Daredevil's own journey as a hero.

Also didn't help that the downward spiral was topped off by one of the worst, most cringe-inducing monologues I've heard on a TV show made by professional people; Karen's prattling has to be heard to be believed.

Brief_Lives

I saw something interesting during the week...

any of ye remember the film, Adventures in Babysitting.... excellent movie...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092513/


do you remember who Thor was in the movie...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJs25xW1hww

Mr E

Officially renewed for season 3.

http://www.comingsoon.net/tv/trailers/704625-marvels-luke-cage-teaser-trailer#/slide/1

flazio

I didn't think Netflix originals would ever get home disc releases.
Looks like I was wrong.
Marvel's Daredevil [Blu-ray] [Region Free] https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01HQ0C23O/ref=cm_sw_r_apa_NvgPxbMP5Z0VG

Basq

^ Spotted Orange Is The New Black in HMV not too long ago..

Nervous Wreck

House of Cards has been out on DVD since shortly after the first season aired, as well.

Raven Runner

I thought the 1st season as mentioned in previous comments was far better than the second, Part of the excitement was waiting to see the new costume and the strength of the Fisk character was compelling to watch but i didn't like the romantic pairing off of Karen and Matt I thought Rosarie Dawson's character Claire fit better with him and Karen with Foggy, and for whatever reason just didn't find the introduction of Electra that interesting and haven't finished season 2 or have not interest to as of yet, It would have been cool if Thomas Jane reprised his role as the Punisher he is the Punisher there's no one that came close to topping his portrayal

Slydice

Raven Runner wrote: »

and haven't finished season 2 or have not interest to as of yet, It would have been cool if Thomas Jane reprised his role as the Punisher he is the Punisher there's no one that came close to topping his portrayal

I also though Thomas Jane was cool as the punisher. He was also in the 'Dirty Laundry' bootleg short in case ya missed it:

Anyway, I wasn't sure about how this would go without him but like.. you're missing some of the new punishers story without seeing the end of Season 2.

Nervous Wreck

Tom Jane was great as The Punisher. But Bernthal's characterisation was better, I reckon.

As for Karen and Matt, I just think she was written kinda poorly for the show tbh.