Malaysian airline MH-17 discussion thread

Beano

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Why is there shrapnel damage as you call it, in a small area around the cockpit and not in a wider area of the plane ?.

perhaps you might show us some pics of the rest of the fuselage so that we can confirm that there are no holes in the rest of the plane.

gandalf

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Why is there shrapnel damage as you call it, in a small area around the cockpit and not in a wider area of the plane ?.

It was according to all the reports from the scene.

http://www.newsweek.com/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-downed-supersonic-missile-expert-analysis-suggests-260483

Photos from the devastated scene of the Malaysia Airlines MH17 crash strongly suggest the plane was shot down by a surface-to-air missile, according to aviation and weapons experts. In support of that verdict, the New York Times has published a selection of photos of the wreckage taken by reporters on the ground.

The pieces of wreckage in question were found several miles away from where the bulk of the plane and its contents fell. An analysis for the Times by IHS Jane’s, a defense consultancy, said the photos suggest “that the destruction of the aircraft was caused by a supersonic missile that apparently exploded near the jet as it flew 33,000 feet above the ground.”

While it’s still impossible to tell the exact make and model of the missile used, the pock-marked surface of the plane debris, blistered paint and the pattern of small indentations that look like not unlike bullet holes are consistent with damage caused by surface-to-air missiles like the Russian built SA-11, say ballistics specialists. The new evidence casts doubt on Russia’s claims that Ukrainian forces shot the plane down....

Busted Flat.

Bullett exit holes.

<snip>
Please check that you're posting the image properly, not as a gigantic pile of letters - it breaks the site.

Dav

pablomakaveli

Where are you getting those crazy links from?

gandalf

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Where are you getting those crazy links from?

I assume it's from http://investmentwatchblog.com, the article he is quoting. In it they say that a Ukrainian SU25 shot the plane down. Someone has already shown categorically and comprehensively that particular warplane doesn't operate at the height MH-17 was flying at.

This is all rinse repeat, rinse repeat from the conspiracy theory brigade.

Beano

gandalf wrote: »

I assume it's from http://investmentwatchblog.com, the article he is quoting. In it they say that a Ukrainian SU25 shot the plane down. Someone has already shown categorically and comprehensively that particular warplane doesn't operate at the height MH-17 was flying at.

This is all rinse repeat, rinse repeat from the conspiracy theory brigade.

If there are similar holes all over the fuselage the it wasnt taken down by a gun. The Su25 only carries 250 rounds for its gun. Plus it only flies at 16,000 feet when armed. But lets not let facts get in the way here.

Busted Flat.

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Where are you getting those crazy links from?

Google "MH17 images of bullet holes".

Busted Flat.

Beano wrote: »

If there are similar holes all over the fuselage the it wasnt taken down by a gun. The Su25 only carries 250 rounds for its gun. Plus it only flies at 16,000 feet when armed. But lets not let facts get in the way here.

Check the photos of the fuselage all the holes are around the cockpit.

darkpagandeath

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Check the photos of the fuselage all the holes are around the cockpit.

30 mm cannons firing either depleted uranium or explosive mix do not make nice round holes. Unless you think someone managed to fire a 7.62 calibre gun at 32000 feet from outside the plane. You do know these 30 mm cannons are designed to take out tanks yeah ?

smurfjed

Lets us go back to basics....

1: SU25 ISNT capable of flying at 33000 feet, REGARDLESS of crew on oxygen or not...

Next credible point please?

gandalf

smurfjed wrote: »

Lets us go back to basics....

1: SU25 ISNT capable of flying at 33000 feet, REGARDLESS of crew on oxygen or not...

Next credible point please?

They're not listening. They are using the same tactics as George W Bush, if they keep repeating the lie it will become the truth

smurfjed

Basic #2, you don't attack a slower target from the front........

Do the sums people, 2 aircraft moving at 500 kts each and a gun range of about 800 metres..... this equals a optimum time of XX decimals of a second.

Peist2007

Preliminary report coming out on the 9th September.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/04/mh17-crash-investigation-report-preliminary-findings

Probably unnoticed due to the fact that it has been buried more than halfway down the page on the Guardian site

I see "no blame" will be attached. Bookie's odds of it being the Russians have lengthened based on that alone

Peist2007

smurfjed wrote: »

Basic #2, you don't attack a slower target from the front........

Do the sums people, 2 aircraft moving at 500 kts each and a gun range of about 800 metres..... this equals a optimum time of XX decimals of a second.

More speculation.

Looking forward to the facts in this. Such a tragedy and seemingly being slowly moved off the agenda. You'd think 298 commercial passenger's deaths would be enough reason to go to war but this seems to be slowly being pushed back to the rear of the news. Interesting.

Is it also true that Malaysia was the only country to actually go to the bother of trying Bush, Cheney et al after Iraq? Completely unrelated i'm sure

http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2012/05/12/bush-convicted-of-war-crimes-in-absentia/

darkpagandeath

Peist2007 wrote: »

More speculation.

Looking forward to the facts in this. Such a tragedy and seemingly being slowly moved off the agenda. You'd think 298 commercial passenger's deaths would be enough reason to go to war but this seems to be slowly being pushed back to the rear of the news. Interesting.

Is it also true that Malaysia was the only country to actually go to the bother of trying Bush, Cheney et al after Iraq? Completely unrelated i'm sure

http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2012/05/12/bush-convicted-of-war-crimes-in-absentia/

Yes it is completely unrelated, What has that got to do with this passenger plane being shot down by Separatists in Ukraine ?

Peist2007

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yes it is completely unrelated, What has that got to do with this passenger plane being shot down by Separatists in Ukraine ?

Here come the cavalry

pablomakaveli

Peist2007 wrote: »

Preliminary report coming out on the 9th September.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/04/mh17-crash-investigation-report-preliminary-findings

Probably unnoticed due to the fact that it has been buried more than halfway down the page on the Guardian site

I see "no blame" will be attached. Bookie's odds of it being the Russians have lengthened based on that alone

Why should it be any higher? Does the news of a preliminary report need to be in big massive letters in flashing lights for you to be satisified?

This may shock you but theres a lot of things going on in the world and the media can't have everything as a main headline. It's not part of some conspiracy.

Peist2007

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Why should it be any higher? Does the news of a preliminary report need to be in big massive letters in flashing lights for you to be satisified?

This may shock you but theres a lot of things going on in the world and the media can't have everything as a main headline. It's not part of some conspiracy.

Says the man quoting articles from the Moscow Times :rolleyes:

This story is beyond huge. It isnt Jennifer Lawrence's topless pics. Ffs get a grip.

moxin

Peist2007 wrote: »

More speculation.

Looking forward to the facts in this. Such a tragedy and seemingly being slowly moved off the agenda. You'd think 298 commercial passenger's deaths would be enough reason to go to war but this seems to be slowly being pushed back to the rear of the news. Interesting.

But aren't the Dutch part of Western conspiracy in your eyes so you'll dismiss the report first hand when it comes out next Tuesday?

Peist2007

moxin wrote: »

But aren't the Dutch part of Western conspiracy in your eyes so you'll dismiss the report first hand when it comes out next Tuesday?

Talk about hearing what you want! You've decided i'm a blind supporter of Putin and the Russians. Trust me, not the case. Any evidence at all will be more than satisfactory to me given there has been zero so far. As i said on the very day this happened, if it is shown that the Russian separatists did it then fair enough. My problem was the rush to villify and impose sanctions before said evidence was produced.

So, to answer your question, no. I would be more interested in what the Malaysians think than the Dutch to be honest.

smurfjed

I see "no blame" will be attached.

Didn't i tell you this about 100 pages ago? The investigation is being conducted in accordance with the applicable ICAO Annex, therefore it deals with facts and not politics.

smurfjed

More speculation.

Actually its in response to items posted here stating that the aircraft was shot down by a fighter and not a missile.

I would be more interested in what the Malaysians think than the Dutch to be honest.

There is a TEAM conducting the investigation, so the resulting report will include the Malaysian opinion.

pablomakaveli

Peist2007 wrote: »

Says the man quoting articles from the Moscow Times :rolleyes:

This story is beyond huge. It isnt Jennifer Lawrence's topless pics. Ffs get a grip.

Try replying without petty digs. It's huge in your opinion. News sites have to juggle many stories that could be huge to different people for different people. The precedence in a stories placement on a site or page isn't exactly a reflection on that stories importance.

Busted Flat.

This day would have been a great opportunity for NATO to produce the satellite, radar, air traffic control, and every bit of information they had to expose Russia as being guilty in the downing of MH17. But guess what, they didn't, you know why, the evidence is pointing to the nazis in Kiev. It would expose the US and EU sanctions as unnecessary. Europe is suffering and will suffer over these sanctions because of criminals in NATO being caught out lying.

Busted Flat.

I am surprised at the lack of comment regarding the downing of MH17 with the loss of 298 innocent people, why there no simple reports given by the Ukrainian air traffick controllers about the last few minutes before the slaughter.
Sick sort of business for the families, for the fat cats to make money on their families lives. One word explains it all,"DISGUSTING"

Today was the day for the truth, but none came, how sad for the supporters of the fraud.

Gatling

Busted Flat. wrote: »

This day would have been a great opportunity for NATO to produce the satellite, radar, air traffic control, and every bit of information they had to expose Russia as being guilty in the downing of MH17. But guess what, they didn't, you know why, the evidence is pointing to the nazis in Kiev. It would expose the US and EU sanctions as unnecessary. Europe is suffering and will suffer over these sanctions because of criminals in NATO being caught out lying.

So where is Russian proof Ukraine shot it down odd that really , it was the Russians who with an hour of the shoot down released information that they believed the Ukrainians engaged the aircraft after mistaken it for Vladimir putin s personal transport that had taken off from Russia only minutes away from the airline,

Then said oh Mr putin personal transport hadn't taken off at all.

DamagedTrax

The results, given today by Ukrainian security official Andriy Lysenko, have, however, left Dutch officials stunned as they did not expect the "premature" announcement.

Mr Lysenko told a news conference that the fragments had come from a rocket blast.

His source however, is under scrutiny after the Dutch Safety Board (DSB) confirmed they did not give the information to Ukraine.

DSB spokeswoman Sara Vernooij told The Independent: "I can’t make a comment on what source Mr. Lysenko has.

wonder who his 'source' was?

DamagedTrax

Gatling wrote: »

So where is Russian proof Ukraine shot it down odd that really , it was the Russians who with an hour of the shoot down released information that they believed the Ukrainians engaged the aircraft mistaken it for Vladimir putin personal transport that had taken off from Russia only minutes away from the airliner.

ah come on, it was only 10 minutes after the incident that sky news was proclaiming russia brought it down.

there were stories flying every direction from both sides for the first few hours.

Gatling

DamagedTrax wrote: »

ah come on, it was only 10 minutes after the incident that sky news was proclaiming russia brought it down.

there were stories flying every direction from both sides for the first few hours.

But yet Russia whom made claims themselfs haven't produced one piece of evidence to say look guys were innocent .
No radar records and flight tracking and so on

But alot of people are obsessed with the notion of
Ukraine is a Nazis state attacking poor innocent and defenceless Russians

Busted Flat.

DamagedTrax wrote: »

wonder who his 'source' was?

Maybe some of the posters on here that come up with the calculations, like 2+2 = 5 or the gun .30 has a range of hitting your bedroom door if you are sitting in your neighbors house, if you are living in a rural area the question is how far do you live from your neighbor.