Malaysian airline MH-17 discussion thread

sparksfly

Piliger wrote: »

Nobody cares about these idiotic bits of Putin's propaganda any more. They are just the vestigial scraps of comedy from a failed stand up.

Everyone knows who slaughtered the 280+ innocent people on that airliner. Everyone knows it was Putin and his cronies. The decision has been reached long ago by the people on the overwhelming evidence.

This is like a broken record.

"Everyone knows........ The decision has been reached long ago by the people on the overwhelming evidence"

Who are The People and where is the overwhelming evidence?

Peist2007

Gatling wrote: »

Let me guess were all blinded by propaganda .

While several posters constantly refer to Ukraine as the Nazis in Kiev .

Now remind me where that comes from

Russian and pro Russian propaganda.

Now again remind me who invaded and annexed Crimea .

And who invaded eastern Ukraine with 8000+ soldiers , hundreds or armoured vehicles
Artillery and anti air defence systems .
Under there guise there holiday makers

I see you chose "Stock Answer 3" to my post.

Are you going to admit you were incorrect in stating yesterday that the Russians were pointing the finger when the plane went down? I note you ignored my post on that.

Ps talking about "invading" crimea is a joke. Why not actually look at this whole thing from where it actually started in Kiev? Constant attempts to rewrite history from you on this thread. As good a candidate for an employed shill as i have seen.

Peist2007

sparksfly wrote: »

This is like a broken record.

"Everyone knows........ The decision has been reached long ago by the people on the overwhelming evidence"

Who are The People and where is the overwhelming evidence?

Pilliger is just taking the mick at this stage. Those that liked his post however show their complete bias. No point in even reading their posts on this issue.

Gatling

Peist2007 wrote: »

I see you chose "Stock Answer 3" to my post.

Are you going to admit you were incorrect in stating yesterday that the Russians were pointing the finger when the plane went down? I note you ignored my post on that.

Boris or what ever your name is wakey wakey

Show me the proof that backs up what your saying links various independent sources anything come on you must have something

darkpagandeath

Peist2007 wrote: »

I see you chose "Stock Answer 3" to my post.

Are you going to admit you were incorrect in stating yesterday that the Russians were pointing the finger when the plane went down? I note you ignored my post on that.

Ps talking about "invading" crimea is a joke. Why not actually look at this whole thing from where it actually started in Kiev? Constant attempts to rewrite history from you on this thread. As good a candidate for an employed shill as i have seen.

I thought people were sick of the country being bled dry by a stooge and wanted him out, not going with the EU deal was the last straw for people. Mass protest stooge runs to homeland. Odd that a deal brokered that guaranteed Ukraine safety by both sides in relation to giving up Nuclear weapons went out the window. When Crimea was taken, You could even say someone was playing the long game to annex Crimea without the fear of doing this to a country with Nuclear weapons.

DamagedTrax

Gatling wrote: »

How is it not that simple ,


People wanted freedom of choice ,freedom of expression ,freedom to choose there countries destiny ,

Not what the kremlin wanted

A soverign nation

because thats all just surface noise to cover the real war. do you think ANY of the governments involved give the first crap about plane crashes or bombings or civilian death tolls? they care about power and money, nothing else.

http://www.examiner.com/article/petro-dollar-era-is-officially-over-as-gazprom-begins-sales-yuan-and-rouble

Gatling

DamagedTrax wrote: »

because thats all just surface noise to cover the real war. do you think ANY of the governments involved give the first crap about plane crashes or bombings or civilian death tolls? they care about power and money, nothing else.

http://www.examiner.com/article/petro-dollar-era-is-officially-over-as-gazprom-begins-sales-yuan-and-rouble

darkpagandeath last post says it all

DamagedTrax

Gatling wrote: »

darkpagandeath last post says it all

and i stand by my reasoning. the war we see is just the propaganda war, right now the west are winning it but that could change... it doesnt matter, the americans & russans are playing their own private war behind all this. the link i posted above is clear evidence. with that happening it IS an economic war.

Gatling

DamagedTrax wrote: »

and i stand by my reasoning. the war we see is just the propaganda war, right now the west are winning it but that could change... it doesnt matter, the americans & russans are playing their own private war behind all this. the link i posted above is clear evidence. with that happening it IS an economic war.

This is about freedom

DamagedTrax

Gatling wrote: »

This is about freedom

we'll have to disagree then.

Gatling

DamagedTrax wrote: »

we'll have to disagree then.

Of course

Busted Flat.

Attacking the poster is not a defense for mass murder.

Gatling

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Attacking the poster is not a defense for mass murder.

No you send a couple or armed drones and Seal Team 6

Busted Flat.

OmGthe EU has admitted telling Porkies

The EU has admitted that Vladimir Putin’s words about “taking Kiev in two weeks” had been “made public out of context,” said a spokeswoman for the European Commission President in a written response to The Wall Street Journal.

“I can only add that the president of the Commission informed his colleagues in the European Council in a restricted session of the conversations he had with President Putin. Unfortunately part of his intervention was made public out of context,” Ahrenkilde-Hansen wrote to the WSJ.

Ca you believe anything these clowns have to say.

Gatling

Busted Flat. wrote: »

OmGthe EU has admitted telling Porkies

The EU has admitted that Vladimir Putin’s words about “taking Kiev in two weeks” had been “made public out of context,” said a spokeswoman for the European Commission President in a written response to The Wall Street Journal.

“I can only add that the president of the Commission informed his colleagues in the European Council in a restricted session of the conversations he had with President Putin. Unfortunately part of his intervention was made public out of context,” Ahrenkilde-Hansen wrote to the WSJ.

Ca you believe anything these clowns have to say.

So what exactly was the context in telling the EU president Manuel barrosso he can take Kiev in two weeks .

did he mean he could take a 2 week break in Kiev with his fellow holiday makers.


Published: 03/09/2014 - 08:33 | Updated: 03/09/2014 - 11:17

Barroso and Putin [Kremlin]

Russia President Vladimir Putin has raised the stakes yesterday (2 September) by telling European Commission President José Manuel Barroso that if he doesn’t officially object, the Kremlin will release the full recording of a telephone call in which, according to Barroso, the Russian President said he could take Kyiv in two weeks if he wanted.

Vladimir Chizhov, Russia's ambassador to the European Union, said the Kremlin is prepared to release the full audio and written transcript of the phone call between Putin and Barroso from 29 August.

Italy's La Reppublica has published what appears to be the account of Prime Minister Matteo Renzi, of an exchange held at the 30-31 August EU summit. Commission President José Manuel Barroso is reported to have told EU leaders that Vladimir Putin had informed him that he could take Kiev in two weeks if he wanted.



**A Kremlin foreign policy aide commented yesterday on Putin’s statement.  He didn’t deny that Putin had said the Russian army could capture Kyiv within two weeks, but said the words were “taken out of context”.

"It was taken out of context and had a totally different meaning," Yuri Ushakov was quoted as saying.**

smurfjed

Chalk and cheese, pilot error and training did not bring down this plane, your explanation defeats itself.

Actually its quite the opposite, if for an easy case of pilot error resulting in no deaths, how long do you think that the investigation into MH17 should take.
Not that it actually matters, as you will never believe the investigation report when it is released ! And just remember that there will be two reports, the initial report this month and then the full report, both will be done in accordance with ICAO Annexes, they will say the WHEN, the HOW, but not the WHO!

pablo128

So Putin will release a tape saying he would take Kiev in a fortnight, but not saying he would take Kiev in a fortnight, but won't release evidence he surely has to defend Russia from accusations about MH17. Very good.

Gatling

Initial Dutch air disaster report published ,

**Large number of high speed objects pierced the fuselage causing it to break up mid air **

Bang_Bang

Gatling wrote: »

Initial Dutch air disaster report published ,

**Large number of high speed objects pierced the fuselage causing it to break up mid air **

I thought it was just 1 missile, The SA-11 BUK??

BeerWolf

Gatling wrote: »

Initial Dutch air disaster report published ,

**Large number of high speed objects pierced the fuselage causing it to break up mid air **

So it was shot down by AA gun instead of a missile... ?

Gatling

Bang_Bang wrote: »

I thought it was just 1 missile, The SA-11 BUK??

Yes, the missle doesnt strike the aircraft it detonates using a proximity sensor sending a large payload of shrapnel into the fuselage ,shredding the aircraft rather than blowing it up

Busted Flat.

BeerWolf wrote: »

So it was shot down by AA gun instead of a missile... ?

Kiev put your hands up you low life clowns.

Busted Flat.

Gatling wrote: »

Yes, the missle doesnt strike the aircraft it detonates using a proximity sensor sending a large payload of shrapnel into the fuselage ,shredding the aircraft rather than blowing it up

Nice little round type holes like bullet's.

seamus

Bang_Bang wrote: »

I thought it was just 1 missile, The SA-11 BUK??

As Gatling says, these missiles are designed to explode when close to the target with a shrapnel payload shredding the aircraft.

While the direct impact of a warhead is likely to be far more devastating to an aircraft, getting a small object travelling at 2,000km/h to precisely hit another (relatively) small object travelling at 600km/h while you guide it from 50km away using radars is extraordinarily difficult. If you miss and the missile passes it by, you can't just turn it around and try again.

So you use proximity detonation when you're "close enough", to increase your odds of hitting the target to closer to 100%, at the expense of potentially not destroying it.

Gatling

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Nice little round type holes like bullet's.

No .

Conspiracy theories again ?

And fact artillery and anti air use smooth balls for payloads

seamus

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Nice little round type holes like bullet's.

When you think of shrapnel, I guess you think of random jagged pieces of scrap metal.

In reality any fragmentation explosive device uses steel ball bearings arranged in a specific pattern to produce maximum damage. It would indeed appear like nice neat little bullet holes.

Busted Flat.

seamus wrote: »

When you think of shrapnel, I guess you think of random jagged pieces of scrap metal.

In reality any fragmentation explosive device uses steel ball bearings arranged in a specific pattern to produce maximum damage. It would indeed appear like nice neat little bullet holes.

The plane was only hit in the cockpit area. Why is there no shrapnel damage in other parts of the plane.

Bang_Bang

seamus wrote: »

As Gatling says, these missiles are designed to explode when close to the target with a shrapnel payload shredding the aircraft.

While the direct impact of a warhead is likely to be far more devastating to an aircraft, getting a small object travelling at 2,000km/h to precisely hit another (relatively) small object travelling at 600km/h while you guide it from 50km away using radars is extraordinarily difficult. If you miss and the missile passes it by, you can't just turn it around and try again.

So you use proximity detonation when you're "close enough", to increase your odds of hitting the target to closer to 100%, at the expense of potentially not destroying it.

Ahh I see, I didn't know how these worked, never really read up on them, so once they're close to the target, it's like a massive shotgun blast and pierces the target in multiple areas.

seamus

The plane was only hit in the cockpit area. Why is there no shrapnel damage in other parts of the plane.

Think about it logically.

If the device exploded off the front of the aircraft, the cockpit will take the brunt of the impact. The payload spreads out in a spherical fashion (though it doesn't always have to), so once the cockpit has taken the bulk of it, the rest of the aircraft remains relatively unscathed.

Anti-aircraft guns are even less accurate than SAMs. If the plane was shot down I'd expect the fuselage to be riddled with bullets and not just the cockpit.

I'm curious as to what your theory is?

o1s1n

Busted Flat. wrote: »

The plane was only hit in the cockpit area. Why is there no shrapnel damage in other parts of the plane.

Maybe the BUK exploded ahead of the aircraft allowing shrapnel to only penetrate the front section?