Malaysian airline MH-17 discussion thread

smurfjed

MOSCOW (AP) — The Russian maker of the Buk air defense missile system said Tuesday that it has concluded that Malaysian Airlines flight 17 was downed by an older version of the missile, which isn't in service with the Russian military but is in Ukrainian arsenals.

Mikhail Malyshevsky, an adviser to the director general of the missile maker, state-controlled Almaz-Antei consortium, said at a news conference Tuesday that its analysis was based on photographs of the wreckage available to the public. He said the holes in the plane's parts were consistent with a specific type of Buk missile and its warhead.

Does this an end to the theory that it was shot down by a fighter jet?

Markcheese

smurfjed wrote: »

Does this an end to the theory that it was shot down by a fighter jet?

Not a chance- both sides will see it as a conspiracy -

Gatling

smurfjed wrote: »

Does this an end to the theory that it was shot down by a fighter jet?

They obviously didn't see the Australian 60 minuets programme that proved the missle and vehicle was tracked from Russia to Ukraine and then back to Russia

darkpagandeath

Markcheese wrote: »

Not a chance- both sides will see it as a conspiracy -

I thought we agreed it was either jet boosted commandos firing 30mm weapons. Or fighter jets attacking from the front of the aircraft you know like they train them in the relevant Air forces around the world. Or was it a ground attack plane that has a service celling 10k ft below the altitude the passenger jet was shot down at. :pac:

Busted Flat.

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I thought we agreed it was either jet boosted commandos firing 30mm weapons. Or fighter jets attacking from the front of the aircraft you know like they train them in the relevant Air forces around the world. Or was it a ground attack plane that has a service celling 10k ft below the altitude the passenger jet was shot down at. :pac:

Why are the Dutch investigators refusing to interview the civilian eye witness's that came forward who were on the ground. Do they not suit the western agenda ?.

BoJack Horseman

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Why are the Dutch investigators refusing to interview the civilian eye witness's that came forward who were on the ground

Probably because the mk1 human eyeball is pretty irrelevant when making forensic judgements of what's happening 10kms in the sky, through clouds.

As well as testimony being at best guessed, or at worst, scripted.

I would have thought this was obvious?

smurfjed

Civilian witnesses to a high flying aircraft above cloud!

darkpagandeath

smurfjed wrote: »

Civilian witnesses to a high flying aircraft above cloud!

Did you not know everyone in the area had access to cloud penetrating systems and are all highly trained in the area of planes and missiles.

Egginacup

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Probably because the mk1 human eyeball is pretty irrelevant when making forensic judgements of what's happening 10kms in the sky, through clouds.

As well as testimony being at best guessed, or at worst, scripted.

I would have thought this was obvious?

Why don't you answer the question without a "probably" ?

And I thought there wasn't a cloud in the sky. There certainly was no cover when those satellites allegedly showed the crew who were supposed to have done this. Amazing how satellite cameras can see through the heavy cloud cover that palled over Ukraine that day, yet footage of the smoke rising from the crash site rises up into a blue sunny sky (pardon the pun...saw that on Sky).

Ash.J.Williams

Where are we with this?? Are we any closer to an official explanation?

Gatling

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

Where are we with this?? Are we any closer to an official explanation?

Report should be due in the next 8-10 weeks .

It was shot down by a Russian weapon system operated by Russian troops inside another country's sovereign terrority

seamus

Incredible that there's even any debate about what happened given that those responsible posted updates on twitter and videos on liveleak at the time.

Gatling

seamus wrote: »

Incredible that there's even any debate about what happened given that those responsible posted updates on twitter and videos on liveleak at the time.

Yeah but people are so blind in their hatred of America they will believe any nosence that absolves Russia of any blame

Elmer Blooker

Gatling wrote: »

It was shot down by a Russian weapon system operated by Russian troops inside another country's sovereign terrority

Well that's that!!
Might as well close the thread now!

Gatling

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Well that's that!!
Might as well close the thread now!

Come on then Entertain us then

What's the current explanation

Busted Flat.

Gatling wrote: »

Report should be due in the next 8-10 weeks .

It was shot down by a Russian weapon system operated by Russian troops inside another country's sovereign terrority

Do you have inside knowledge of the investigation, if your opinion is correct let the Dutch come out and say it. It is getting embarrassing now for the investigators to come up with a result. It will be another year or more because it is to close to Willy Wonka's Junta.

Egginacup

Gatling wrote: »

Come on then Entertain us then

What's the current explanation

You've examined the fuselage then? You are a metallurgical and ballistics expert and you have a hypothesis for us?
Tell us, if you don't mind.

darkpagandeath

Egginacup wrote: »

You've examined the fuselage then? You are a metallurgical and ballistics expert and you have a hypothesis for us?
Tell us, if you don't mind.

30mm explosive rounds do not make nice little holes, Neither do depleted uranium rounds. And no air-force in the world attacks enemy planes from in-front. All this being a side issue did we not point out part of the BUK weapon system function is to go off like a shotgun next to the aircraft for maximum damage.

Oh and did we explain away the planes in the area where ground attack variants and had a service celling 10k below the passenger jet ?

Gatling

Egginacup wrote: »

You've examined the fuselage then? You are a metallurgical and ballistics expert and you have a hypothesis for us?
Tell us, if you don't mind.

I'm a expert on many things included modern and past weapons systems .

MH 17 was shot down by a Russian Anti air system manned and operated by Russian military personnel.
Inside Ukraine.

Now lets here the latest and fantastical conspiracy theory

seamus

Occam's Razor; the explanation which makes the fewest assumptions is usually the correct one.

Known facts;
- There was a Russian-provided BUK missile battery in operation in the area on that day
- "Separatist" forces posted videos and tweets at the time of the crash, from the location of the crash, claiming to have downed a military aircraft. No military aircraft were actually downed at that time, and the tweets/videos were quickly deleted.
- The reported state of the recovered fuselage is consistent with a proximity fused missile payload, the kind of missile fired by a BUK battery.


Therefore it's making very few assumptions to claim that MH17 was shot down by that BUK missile battery. Any other explanation requires a massive pile of assumptions for which there is no evidence.

aloyisious

Not saying, is all: Here's a complicated conspiracy theory about the Ukraine/Russian conflict....

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/06/12/scott-lively-obama-orchestrated-ukraine-conflict-over-russias-anti-gay-laws/?utm_source=PNFBND&utm_medium=FB&utm_campaign=Lively

smurfjed

He ranted: I have come to believe that Obama orchestrated the Ukraine coup to re-start the cold war to prevent Russia from leading a global revolt against his most sacred cow, the LGBT agenda.

Wow and to think that people like this are allowed to walk around without straight jackets!

I'm sure that Egg and co will declare the investigators report to be false once its released.

Egginacup

seamus wrote: »

Incredible that there's even any debate about what happened given that those responsible posted updates on twitter and videos on liveleak at the time.

What's incredible is that John Kerry has absolute proof that Russians shot down this plane, proof that even his own intelligence services say doesn't exist, yet he won't let us all in on his secret. The man must have powers beyond the comprehension of mortals.

Egginacup

Gatling wrote: »

I'm a expert on many things included modern and past weapons systems .

MH 17 was shot down by a Russian Anti air system manned and operated by Russian military personnel.
Inside Ukraine.

Now lets here the latest and fantastical conspiracy theory

No, you're not going to hear anything about theories. What you're going to do is explain in detail how you know through your years of expertise as a ballistics and materials specialist and your meticulous examination of the wreckage how you came to the irrefutable conclusion that you have.

Continue. You have undivided attention.

Gatling

Egginacup wrote: »

No, you're not going to hear anything about theories. What you're going to do is explain in detail how you know through your years of expertise as a ballistics and materials specialist and your meticulous examination of the wreckage how you came to the irrefutable conclusion that you have.

Continue. You have undivided attention.

It's public fact what actually happened at this stage .

There was no coup,
There was no Ukrainian fighter jets ,
There was no CIA switcheroo with another aircraft.
There was no dead bodies placed on an aircraft and deliberately crashed to besmirch vlad Putin.

Only a Russian anti air weapons platform ,operating inside the Sovereign country of Ukraine.
That targeted a civilian airliner and shot it down.

There's nothing else to discuss nobody and I mean nobody has remotely even came close to suggesting an actual alternative scenario as to what and why MH 17 was shot down .

Nothing

Egginacup

Gatling wrote: »

It's public fact what actually happened at this stage .

There was no coup,
There was no Ukrainian fighter jets ,
There was no CIA switcheroo with another aircraft.
There was no dead bodies placed on an aircraft and deliberately crashed to besmirch vlad Putin.

Only a Russian anti air weapons platform ,operating inside the Sovereign country of Ukraine.
That targeted a civilian airliner and shot it down.

There's nothing else to discuss nobody and I mean nobody has remotely even came close to suggesting an actual alternative scenario as to what and why MH 17 was shot down .

Nothing

No...

You stated that you are an expert in ballistics and weapons systems. Nobody wants to hear your questions about alternative possibilities. You (by your own admission) are an expert. Can you elucidate your findings, please.
As an expert you should be able to proffer your findings without the need to demand other "theories".

Your findings, please.

Egginacup

Gatling wrote: »

I'm a expert on many things included modern and past weapons systems .

MH 17 was shot down by a Russian Anti air system manned and operated by Russian military personnel.
Inside Ukraine.

Now lets here the latest and fantastical conspiracy theory

And Gatling, if you were such an expert, then I would imagine you went through years of education. ...."here" when you ought to have written "hear"?
That kind of faux-pas is understable when dealing with a blag-mouth who is trying to shout from the defence of a keyboard. But surely your years of training as a weapons specialist must have meant that you wrote papers, reports, etc.

How did you blag your way through it, Gatling?

Irish Praetorian

Egginacup wrote: »

And Gatling, if you were such an expert, then I would imagine you went through years of education. ...."here" when you ought to have written "hear"?
That kind of faux-pas is understable when dealing with a blag-mouth who is trying to shout from the defence of a keyboard. But surely your years of training as a weapons specialist must have meant that you wrote papers, reports, etc.

How did you blag your way through it, Gatling?

Presumably if he does provide the appropriate credentials you will decry him as being 'small fry' or a 'shill' and then demand that some of the 'leading ballistic weaponry experts' come out and say the same thing?

darkpagandeath

Egginacup wrote: »

And Gatling, if you were such an expert, then I would imagine you went through years of education. ...."here" when you ought to have written "hear"?
That kind of faux-pas is understable when dealing with a blag-mouth who is trying to shout from the defence of a keyboard. But surely your years of training as a weapons specialist must have meant that you wrote papers, reports, etc.

How did you blag your way through it, Gatling?

:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::D

Gatling

Egginacup wrote: »

Gatling,
Gatling,
Gatling,
Gatling,
Gatling,

Yeah that's my name has a ring to it doesn't it .

Should I lower myself to your level of having to repeatedly tell lies and disrespect the lives of the 283 Innocent victims and the 15 crew of MH17 .
And now your turned to near personal abuse by personally attacking me which shows exactly who and what you are .

If you wish to continue this route I'll happily quote the several hundred posts you made this last 12 months covering the Crimea ,Ukraine and MH17 and point out every little lie and whack job anti US agenda I'll happily do so .