Malaysian airline MH-17 discussion thread

Busted Flat.

smurfjed wrote: »

The involvement of the prosecutor isnt new. This interview is quite interesting.

Cart before the horse.

smurfjed

Cart before the horse.

not really as the have established that the aircraft was shot down, therefore there is a criminal case to be answered.

Schadenfreudia

Don't the Ukrainians have those BUK missiles as well?

Elmer Blooker

The Ukrainians operate a "variant" of BUK missile according to that BBC report.
I still can't understand why the last conversations with the crew of MH17 remain top secret, every single detail of the last conversation with the crew of MH320 was released shortly after it disappeared. Also curious that the black boxes never get a mention. The search for the black boxes of MH320 went on for months.

Schadenfreudia

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I still can't understand why the last conversations with the crew of MH17 remain top secret, every single detail of the last conversation with the crew of MH320 was released shortly after it disappeared.

I suppose if one were to speculate that that is because the conversation doesn't support the "Russia to blame" agenda one would be dismissed as a "conspiracy theorist"? :rolleyes:

darkpagandeath

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

I suppose if one were to speculate that that is because the conversation doesn't support the "Russia to blame" agenda one would be dismissed as a "conspiracy theorist"? :rolleyes:

Would the BUK warhead have a hammer and sickle on it :P

My assumption would be that because it's a criminal investigation, the investigators are keeping details like that tight to their chest, like you would in pretty much any such process.

Schadenfreudia

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Would the BUK warhead have a hammer and sickle on it :P

Might have had. After the explosion...not so sure.

Gatling

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

The Ukrainians operate a "variant" of BUK missile according to that BBC report.
I still can't understand why the last conversations with the crew of MH17 remain top secret, every single detail of the last conversation with the crew of MH320 was released shortly after it disappeared. Also curious that the black boxes never get a mention. The search for the black boxes of MH320 went on for months.

Blackboxes recovered and been in the uk for best part of a year now .
I've yet to see where the last conversation is Classified as Top Secret .
Possible there's no last conversation.
Been it was hit by a surface to air missle damage would have catastrophic and instant .
Ukraine does have anti air systems but been the rebels have no aircraft it wouldn't have been sent to fight non existent planes ,
Unlike Russian supported forces that were been hammered from the Ukrainian airforce until they shot down 3 other planes that week and 2 that weekend before MH17 was brought down .

1+1=2

According to pro Putin / Kremlin posters on here Russia could prove that a Ukrainian jet engaged and shot down MH17 but yet 12+months later all we got was a badly shopped image of a Russian aircraft firing a missle at a civilian airliner

Schadenfreudia

Gatling wrote: »

Ukraine does have anti air systems but been the rebels have no aircraft it wouldn't have been sent to fight non existent planes

Cui bono?

Only the Ukrainian regime if it can pin the downing on Russia/rebels. :cool:

MH17 definitely existed, was taking risks over an area where war-planes were regularly shot down by separatists... no-brainer that the most vested interest in shooting down a civilian airline was the Ukrainian Regime.

Gatling

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

Cui bono?

Only the Ukrainian regime if it can pin the downing on Russia/rebels. :cool:

MH17 definitely existed, was taking risks over an area where war-planes were regularly shot down by separatists... no-brainer that the most vested interest in shooting down a civilian airline was the Ukrainian Regime.

Sorry but No .

The regime in Ukraine was removed and disappeared to Russia for there own protection,

See your statement / conspiracy theory may have been possible or plausible to some but where it literally falls down is the pro Russians boasting they had shot down a Ukrainian aircraft,
We have witnesses in the area who saw a missle launch from pro Russian controlled area .
We have videos of pro Russian forces arriving on scene to see what Ukrainian aircraft they shot down and search for a pilot only to realise it was a civilian airliner.
In the same video pro Russian forces claims to have seen 6-8 Ukrainian paratroopers jump from the plane .
Which would have to suggest it was hijacked and 300 people murdered before the plane was shot down and yet zero absolutely zero evidence to back that claim/s up .
Pro Russian forces spent several days trying to destroy as much evidence as possible,
In one video a large piece of fuselage was repeatedly raised and slammed into the ground by a crane ,suspicious to anyone.
And we then have the claim the plane was purposely diverted into that area ,only issue there 16/18 airlines were still using the same route .
Russia said within hours Ukrainian forces shot down the plane because they had mistaken it for Vladimir Putin's private jet ,
Russia then said they could prove a Ukrainian fighter jet engaged and shot down MH17 with guns a missle they had all this on radar .
Where is this information that exonerate 's Russian involvement.
We had a stupidly bad photoshoped image which was released in Russia to show a Ukrainian jet shooting down MH -17 only problem was it featured the wrong plane it actually showed a Russian jet you literally couldn't make it up .

As much as some people just love conspiracy they all ways forget to do there homework and back it claims .

Busted Flat.

Gatling wrote: »

Sorry but No .

The regime in Ukraine was removed and disappeared to Russia for there own protection,

See your statement / conspiracy theory may have been possible or plausible to some but where it literally falls down is the pro Russians boasting they had shot down a Ukrainian aircraft,
We have witnesses in the area who saw a missle launch from pro Russian controlled area .
We have videos of pro Russian forces arriving on scene to see what Ukrainian aircraft they shot down and search for a pilot only to realise it was a civilian airliner.
In the same video pro Russian forces claims to have seen 6-8 Ukrainian paratroopers jump from the plane .
Which would have to suggest it was hijacked and 300 people murdered before the plane was shot down and yet zero absolutely zero evidence to back that claim/s up .
Pro Russian forces spent several days trying to destroy as much evidence as possible,
In one video a large piece of fuselage was repeatedly raised and slammed into the ground by a crane ,suspicious to anyone.
And we then have the claim the plane was purposely diverted into that area ,only issue there 16/18 airlines were still using the same route .
Russia said within hours Ukrainian forces shot down the plane because they had mistaken it for Vladimir Putin's private jet ,
Russia then said they could prove a Ukrainian fighter jet engaged and shot down MH17 with guns a missle they had all this on radar .
Where is this information that exonerate 's Russian involvement.
We had a stupidly bad photoshoped image which was released in Russia to show a Ukrainian jet shooting down MH -17 only problem was it featured the wrong plane it actually showed a Russian jet you literally couldn't make it up .

As much as some people just love conspiracy they all ways forget to do there homework and back it claims .

Just a simple question, who is we in your post, do you represent the Kiev government or NATO.

Gatling

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Just a simple question, who is we in your post, do you represent the Kiev government or NATO.

Because i don't subscribe to crackpot
conspiracy theories? ??

Do you represent Vladimir Putin and the Kremlin? .

You know the old saying "if Your going to shoot down a civilian airliner don't boast about it on social media and youtube "

Schadenfreudia

Gatling wrote: »

Sorry but No .

The regime in Ukraine was removed and disappeared to Russia for there own protection,

See your statement / conspiracy theory may have been possible or plausible to some but where it literally falls down is the pro Russians boasting they had shot down a Ukrainian aircraft,
We have witnesses in the area who saw a missle launch from pro Russian controlled area .
We have videos of pro Russian forces arriving on scene to see what Ukrainian aircraft they shot down and search for a pilot only to realise it was a civilian airliner.
In the same video pro Russian forces claims to have seen 6-8 Ukrainian paratroopers jump from the plane .
Which would have to suggest it was hijacked and 300 people murdered before the plane was shot down and yet zero absolutely zero evidence to back that claim/s up .
Pro Russian forces spent several days trying to destroy as much evidence as possible,
In one video a large piece of fuselage was repeatedly raised and slammed into the ground by a crane ,suspicious to anyone.
And we then have the claim the plane was purposely diverted into that area ,only issue there 16/18 airlines were still using the same route .
Russia said within hours Ukrainian forces shot down the plane because they had mistaken it for Vladimir Putin's private jet ,
Russia then said they could prove a Ukrainian fighter jet engaged and shot down MH17 with guns a missle they had all this on radar .
Where is this information that exonerate 's Russian involvement.
We had a stupidly bad photoshoped image which was released in Russia to show a Ukrainian jet shooting down MH -17 only problem was it featured the wrong plane it actually showed a Russian jet you literally couldn't make it up .

As much as some people just love conspiracy they all ways forget to do there homework and back it claims .

Lotta waffle there, but basically you are saying it was an accident.

So, no criminality involved

Gatling

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

basically you are saying it was
a civilian airliner was shot down in an act of terror

Absolutely yes

Schadenfreudia

Gatling wrote: »

Absolutely yes

I said not such thing, obviously. Why do you resort to lies?

Elmer Blooker

Gatling wrote: »

Blackboxes recovered and been in the uk for best part of a year now .
I've yet to see where the last conversation is Classified as Top Secret .
Possible there's no last conversation.
Been it was hit by a surface to air missle damage would have catastrophic and instant .
Ukraine does have anti air systems but been the rebels have no aircraft it wouldn't have been sent to fight non existent planes ,
Unlike Russian supported forces that were been hammered from the Ukrainian airforce until they shot down 3 other planes that week and 2 that weekend before MH17 was brought down .

1+1=2

According to pro Putin / Kremlin posters on here Russia could prove that a Ukrainian jet engaged and shot down MH17 but yet 12+months later all we got was a badly shopped image of a Russian aircraft firing a missle at a civilian airliner

There is a secrecy pact/agreement between Ukraine, Netherlands, Australia and Belgium (Belgium?) The Netherlands Govt didn't deny it as you can see from below.

The Dutch magazine Elsevier, under Dutch Freedom of Information laws, sought a copy of the agreement. On 19 November they announced that the request had been refused on the grounds that it “could endanger the relations with other countries involved.”

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/12/19/why-the-secrecy-on-the-mh17-investigation/

In one video a large piece of fuselage was repeatedly raised and slammed into the ground by a crane ,suspicious to anyone.

Because i don't subscribe to crackpot
conspiracy theories? ??

Schadenfreudia

Gatling wrote: »

Because i don't subscribe to crackpot
conspiracy theories? ??

Hmmm...but you have no problem pulling "quotes" from you a-hole? :rolleyes:

InTheTrees

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

So, no criminality involved

You'd have to be a really devout putin supporter to believe that.

:cool:

Schadenfreudia

InTheTrees wrote: »

You'd have to be a really devout putin supporter to believe that.

:cool:

Nope. You just have to allow for the cui bono question.

InTheTrees

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

Nope. You just have to allow for the cui bono question.

Oh right. The ukrainians wanted to shoot down a civilian airliner over their own country and then make it look like the separatists did it. So everyone would hate the separatists except the russians.

Especially clever of them to shoot it down over rebel held territory because they must have know the rebels would scramble to destroy all the evidence.

But they didn't count on intrepid conspiracy theorists stumbling on to their cunning plan huh?

:pac: :pac: :pac:

Schadenfreudia

InTheTrees wrote: »

Oh right. The ukrainians wanted to shoot down a civilian airliner over their own country and then make it look like the separatists did it. So everyone would hate the separatists except the russians.

Especially clever of them to shoot it down over rebel held territory because they must have know the rebels would scramble to destroy all the evidence.

But they didn't count on intrepid conspiracy theorists stumbling on to their cunning plan huh?

:pac: :pac: :pac:

Nope. As I have repeatedly stated it was probably an accident. In fact it was either

(a) an accident
or
(b) the Ukrainians did it

No need for any "conspiracy theories" to explain that.

There was no reason on whatsoever why the Donetsk fighters would shoot down a Malaysian civilian airline.

Simple as. :cool:

Elmer Blooker

This stuff from a Kiev propaganda site is so detailed and was produced so soon after the plane hit the ground it makes me feel uncomfortable. The possibility of a bomb on board (like Pan Am Lockerbie or Air India off the Kerry coast) was NEVER mentioned once.
Use your heads gents!
http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/07/17/malaysian-airline-shot-down-by-buk-missile-system-verified-in-possession-of-pro-russian-militants/

Gatling

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

This stuff from a Kiev propaganda site is so detailed and was produced so soon after the plane hit the ground it makes me feel uncomfortable. The possibility of a bomb on board (like Pan Am Lockerbie or Air India off the Kerry coast) was NEVER mentioned once.
Use your heads gents!
http://euromaidanpress.com/2014/07/17/malaysian-airline-shot-down-by-buk-missile-system-verified-in-possession-of-pro-russian-militants/

Bomb now .

Well unfortunately the pro Russian forces admitted shooting down a plane no other plane went down that day or location.

We know it wasn't shot down by Ukraine

Elmer Blooker

Gatling wrote: »

Bomb now .

Well unfortunately the pro Russian forces admitted shooting down a plane no other plane went down that day or location.

We know it wasn't shot down by Ukraine

I'm not saying there was a bomb! I'm asking why wasn't the possibility of a bomb on board even mentioned on July 17th 2014.

Are you talking about that YouTube clip? If my memory serves me wasn't something about the date being wrong on that "conversation"?

weisses

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

There was no reason on whatsoever why the Donetsk fighters would shoot down a Malaysian civilian airline.

Simple as. :cool:

So they were poorly trained by their Russian comrades ??

gandalf

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

There was no reason on whatsoever why the Donetsk fighters would shoot down a Malaysian civilian airline.

Simple as. :cool:

Well there is if they had mistaken it for a Ukrainian Military transporter as initial reports indicated

MadYaker

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

Lotta waffle there, but basically you are saying it was an accident.

So, no criminality involved

So if I accidentally kill 300 people, I shouldn't face any criminal charges? Riiiight.

Schadenfreudia

gandalf wrote: »

Well there is if they had mistaken it for a Ukrainian Military transporter as initial reports indicated

Then that, by your own words, would be a mistake, wouldn't it? :cool:

Schadenfreudia

MadYaker wrote: »

So if I accidentally kill 300 people, I shouldn't face any criminal charges? Riiiight.

Not if you are an American ally, or, as we shall see, a Russian ally