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Malaysian airline MH-17 discussion thread
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So why are the Dutch taking the lead in this investigation asherbassad? I'll tell you why because the majority of the people who died because of this action were Dutch citizens. Lay off the tinfoil it's obviously effecting your ability to process information in a logical manner
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What is the difference between the Dutch Safety Board investigation (OVV) and the JIT investigation?
The two investigations have a different goal. The JIT investigation focuses on the prosecution of the perpetrators and the OVV investigation’s purpose is to draw safety lessons from the accident for future use. Both the JIT and the OVV investigate the cause of the crash. In addition, the OVV looks at the decision-making process concerning the determination of the flight routes to be followed and the availability of passenger lists of flight MH17 on 17 July 2014. The JIT investigation is aimed at identifying the suspects.
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Wonder when Russia will release it's secret evidence.
Satellite images of MH17 crash site
http://content.satimagingcorp.com/static/galleryimages/Satellite Image Malaysia Airlines MH17 Ukraine.jpg
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Elmer Blooker wrote: »Wait a minute!! Mr Joustra (of the Dutch investigation) is saying that he knows who fired the missile yet the investigation was inconclusive!!
What am I missing here?
Yes you are obviously missing something.
There's 2 separate investigation today we got the technical report which stated a Russian Buk shot down MH17 everything else was ruled out in a very in depth report ,
But the 2nd report the Criminal investigation will attribute blame and possibly identify suspects that's coming in February 2016 .
A bit of reading goes a long way
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Schadenfreudia wrote: »There is no such thing as "International Law" - except UNSC decisions.
The idea that a "court" in the Hague will be able to prosecute anyone in relation to MH 17 is a joke...a nonsense :rolleyes:
Terrible stuff south Africa slowly but surely becoming the new mugabe Zimbabwe after all the work Mandela did been thrown down the drain .
I wouldn't worry about justice for MH17 it's going to happen no what what weak arguments are put up.
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Schadenfreudia wrote: »It is expected that the whole of the AU will follow SA out of the ICC.
As for MH17....could you explain how "justice" is going to "happen"?
(Rhetorical question - I know you can't :rolleyes:)
No you didn't ,
It can happen in a number of ways I certainly wouldn't rely on a mineral to make predictions
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Schadenfreudia wrote: »In order words - you know it won't happen
No you claimed justice won't happen ,
I said it will and can happen in a number or ways or was that not clear
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No you claimed justice won't happen ,
I said it will and can happen in a number or ways or was that not clear
Which, as you won't reveal any of those imaginary ways it might "happen", means you can't actually imagine it happening :cool:
You wish it might - (if you could even define "justice" in this case, which you can't) - but you know it won't 0 -
So why are the Dutch taking the lead in this investigation asherbassad? I'll tell you why because the majority of the people who died because of this action were Dutch citizens. Lay off the tinfoil it's obviously effecting your ability to process information in a logical manner
I'm actually delighted you asked that question, gandalf.
Just because the majority of the deaths were Dutch does in no way entitle the Dutch to conduct the investigation. If you wish to spit out the tinfoli barb again then go for it. It makes you look childish. Not quite as childish as Beavis and Butthead on here who screech like hyenas and we all know who that pair are.
When I lit a candle at Eindhoven airport in early August 2014 before taking the train back up to my gaff in Amsterdam NOT a single mate of mine from Leiden to Zwolle to Almere had the slightest suspicion that Russia had just murdered 298 people. None of them. And you kinow what..they still don't.
Are you familiar with the term
"Nemo judex in causa sua" ?
It's quite simple and is the basis of ALL law and all investigation.
"You cannot be the judge in that which you have interest."
To have the Dutch deliver a verdict and possibly indict someone else is a farce.
Not just a farce but a sham.
You are, I assume, familiar with the term "Not only must justice be done but it must be seen to be done."
Well, that to me and many is compromised. Not only that but it is insulting.
This crime ought to be investigated and investigated properly. No Ukrainian involvement. No Russian involvement. No Dutch or American or Australian involvement. No rejection of some evidence and the suppression of other evidence. NO veto power over one party to shutter anything.
If you want the truth about a crime then have the nuts to say so. If you don't really care then say so as well.
This is serious. It's not some game. 298 people are dead and someone is lying and withholding evidence. Not only that but many are trying to pin the blame on someone else. If the blame should be exacted then you ought to have no fear.
Why are things being hidden? And moreover why are things being embellished and fabricated?
There is no reason to bury evidence that could copperfasten this crime. That evidence might well even further implicate those who you want to be culpable.
But evidence buried whether damning or enlightening casts a pall of lies and mistrust upon anything and everything.
Go with that if you want, mate.0 -
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Some people will post any old tin foil bs.
From the NY Times
On Tuesday, the Dutch Safety Board issued its long-awaited report on what brought down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 in eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014. Speaking at Gilze-Rijen Air Base in the Netherlands, Tjibbe Joustra, the safety board’s chairman, announced that after meticulous study — including the plastering the charred scraps of the plane onto a skeleton model of the Boeing 777, which sat behind him as he spoke — the board concluded that the plane was brought down by a missile from the Russian-made 9M38 series, fired from a Buk surface-to-air missile system in eastern Ukraine. It exploded less than a yard from the left side of the plane’s cockpit. The high-energy fragments flung out by the missile perforated the plane’s nose and caused it to tear off, leading to the breakup and crash of the plane about a minute later, which killed all 298 passengers onboard.
The report didn’t tell us anything we didn’t already know or strongly suspect: that the cause of the crash was a Russian-made missile fired from an area hotly contested between Russian-backed separatists and the Ukrainian military, killing hundreds of people who had nothing to do with the conflict. Though the report didn’t specify who fired the missile, Joustra said it was launched from rebel-held territory. This was, again, what we already suspected — and a scenario for which independent outfits, like the citizen-journalism website Bellingcat, have rustled up much convincing evidence.
A lot, however, comes down to who “us” is here. We in the West saw the presentation of one report, while Russians saw another: Almaz-Antey, the Russian state corporation that produces the Buk systems, held a competing news conference on Tuesday in Moscow, featuring its own report. Almaz-Antey’s accounting of the incident, which included footage of an exploding missile near the nose of a decommissioned Russian plane, reached subtly different conclusions. Sure, it was a Russian-made Buk that downed the plane, Almaz-Antey’s director Yan Novikov said, but those missiles have not been in use in Russia since 2011. Moreover, Novikov said, it was fired not from Snizhne, in rebel-held territory, but from near Zaroschenskoe, which was held by the Ukrainian Army. Novikov’s conclusion? Those 298 people were killed not by Russians, but by Ukrainians.
There’s a lot riding on this conclusion — for instance, the costly Western sanctions imposed on Russia in the wake of the crash. And so, from the day the pieces of the plane rained down on Ukraine’s sunflower fields, Moscow has advanced its own theories about what brought down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17. From early claims that it was a Ukrainian attempt to bring down Vladimir Putin’s presidential plane to later, more technical explanations, the Russian media and Almaz-Antey have acted like defense attorneys in a criminal trial, deliberately muddying the waters, fastidiously creating as much reasonable doubt as possible to lead the scent away from their client.
The Dutch report implicitly fingers the Russians, but Kremlin-friendly newspapers have seized on stray details, like the report’s criticism of the Ukrainian government for not shutting down airspace over the conflict, and the big question it chose not to directly answer: Who fired the missile? (Determining ultimate responsibility, the authors of the report said, “falls outside the mandate of the Dutch Safety Board.”) The evening news across Russia showed not the Dutch news conference but the Moscow one, in which the reporter concluded that the Western version of events “doesn’t hold water.”
Now Russia ran a poll 3 days after the downing of MH17 Beggers belief asking people who shot down MH17.
Ukrainian jets .
Ukrainians missles .
Americans.
Sepertists.
Sepertists got a tiny 3% due to Russian propaganda from day one in July stating Ukrainian jets shot it down and then Ukrainian missles shot it down,
All claims that for reasons only known to themselves they can't produce any evidence unless there suppressing the evidence that can clear them ,
But why well it's lies fed to a gullible and zombie like population who believe everything that's fed to them from state controlled media.
Now where you get real issues is when people buy into the Russian propaganda who then maybe down to certain issues start declaring ABR (anything but Russia ) in every event ,
We end up with keywords CIA ,Black Ops ,and so on and so on,
Some people are gullible to conspiracy theories others just need to make a point due to attention seeking or just like to Troll because well they need help ,
But no matter what the truth is it will always be denied
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