Malaysian airline MH-17 discussion thread

weisses

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Does the Convention on Civil Aviation say anything about secrecy pacts signed by countries involved in investigating an air crash?
Before the usual suspects make the predictable tin foil accusations note that the Netherland's government did not deny that such a pact exists.


https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/11/22/mh17-n22.html

From your link

Asked about Russian allegations that a Ukrainian fighter jet shot down MH17, Westerbeke refused to deny them. He stated that, “a shooting down by a surface-to-air missile remains the most likely scenario.

:rolleyes:

Gatling

Here's an interesting read on the Russian operation on muddying the waters

https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/10/13/russias-reality-trolls-and-the-mh17-war-of-misinformation-buk-missile/

weisses

Gatling wrote: »

Here's an interesting read on Russian operation on muddying the waters

https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/10/13/russias-reality-trolls-and-the-mh17-war-of-misinformation-buk-missile/

Very interesting read and so true

In the end, the “white noise” method may be effective abroad as well, helping to end possibilities of bringing those guilty to justice

Evident here in different threads

Elmer Blooker

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I notice the Guardian is reporting that the pilot's body was "interfered" with and shrapnel was removed? If anyone can find where the report said this please post a link. Thanks.

Page 84

I see the Guardian made an "error".

http://off-guardian.org/2015/10/14/guardian-makes-error-reading-mh17-report-accuses-rebels-of-cover-up/

Schadenfreudia

gandalf wrote: »

So all the western worlds privately owned media are ganging up together to present a unified narrative on this whole situation. Where do they formulate their "evil" agenda. Is there like a secret mountain base? Is their leader a safari suited bald guy who likes to pet Persian cats

The only thing the vast majority of these organisations agree on is making money and if there is a story that gives them a jump over all the others they will run with it. If you honestly believe that they will shelve a massive story like this or mold it under instructions then you have serious reality issues.

Matt Cooper explained it rather well on the radio a few weeks ago, referring to his time in the Sunday Tribune - which at the time was surviving on handout's from O'Reilly's INM.

He said that Corporate journalists don't have to be instructed not to annoy the hand that feeds; you simply don't get to be an editor who decides what's published if you do.

MSM hacks therefore self select for defence of their Corporate/Oligarch interests just as surely as the journalists in RT do.

Busted Flat.

Will we have to wait this long for the truth to come out about MH17and MH370 ?

https://encrypted.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjF3pXoifzJAhXlfnIKHQ4TDyQQFggbMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rt.com%2Fnews%2F326958-korean-boeing-1983-declassified%2F&usg=AFQjCNEmuY3S7u0Ml_ZmjHjOOSkd_5jP7w&sig2=3rGyQDwMqp0dM4q_4gSS5w

"Back in 1983, the US secretly informed Japan that a Korean Air Boeing-747 was downed over the Soviet Union by mistake, a declassified document reveals. Officially, Washington always accused Moscow of intentionally shooting down the passenger jet".

"For decades, Washington and the international community have been insisting that the catastrophe that claimed 269 lives took place because Soviet Air Force deliberately shot down the passenger liner".

Gatling

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Will we have to wait this long for the truth to come out about MH17and MH370 ?

https://encrypted.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjF3pXoifzJAhXlfnIKHQ4TDyQQFggbMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rt.com%2Fnews%2F326958-korean-boeing-1983-declassified%2F&usg=AFQjCNEmuY3S7u0Ml_ZmjHjOOSkd_5jP7w&sig2=3rGyQDwMqp0dM4q_4gSS5w

"Back in 1983, the US secretly informed Japan that a Korean Air Boeing-747 was downed over the Soviet Union by mistake, a declassified document reveals. Officially, Washington always accused Moscow of intentionally shooting down the passenger jet".

"For decades, Washington and the international community have been insisting that the catastrophe that claimed 269 lives took place because Soviet Air Force deliberately shot down the passenger liner".

So we've always known russia shot down the kal flight ,
And the first part of the MH17 investigation was published in October and the 2nd part the criminal investigation is due in February 2016.

And it wasn't an accident the Kal flight could easily have been identified by its lit up tail ,
Add the fact the Russian aircraft fired it's machine guns it had no tracer rounds so the kal crew wouldn't have ever seen the warning shots .
Posted the actual transcript of the incident a while back

leavingirl

Gatling wrote: »

So we've always known russia shot down the kal flight ,
And the first part of the MH17 investigation was published in October and the 2nd part the criminal investigation is due in February 2016.

And it wasn't an accident the Kal flight could easily have been identified by its lit up tail ,
Add the fact the Russian aircraft fired it's machine guns it had no tracer rounds so the kal crew wouldn't have ever seen the warning shots .
Posted the actual transcript of the incident a while back

anyone famous die today?

weisses

leavingirl wrote: »

anyone famous die today?

Just a few brain cells, reading the above

Schadenfreudia

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Will we have to wait this long for the truth to come out about MH17and MH370 ?

Well, given the Ukrainian "security services" and the Dutch investigators were so busy selling off parts of the evidence, maybe never - at least officially!

"Back in 1983, the US secretly informed Japan that a Korean Air Boeing-747 was downed over the Soviet Union by mistake, a declassified document reveals. Officially, Washington always accused Moscow of intentionally shooting down the passenger jet".

"For decades, Washington and the international community have been insisting that the catastrophe that claimed 269 lives took place because Soviet Air Force deliberately shot down the passenger liner".

No surprise there....:rolleyes:

weisses

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

Well, given the Ukrainian "security services" and the Dutch investigators were so busy selling off parts of the evidence, maybe never - at least officially!

Well If you want the truth to remain hidden you are not gonna put them up for sale on the Dutch equivalent of done deal I would guess

Nice try though

Busted Flat.

Gatling wrote: »

So we've always known russia shot down the kal flight ,
And the first part of the MH17 investigation was published in October and the 2nd part the criminal investigation is due in February 2016.

And it wasn't an accident the Kal flight could easily have been identified by its lit up tail ,
Add the fact the Russian aircraft fired it's machine guns it had no tracer rounds so the kal crew wouldn't have ever seen the warning shots .
Posted the actual transcript of the incident a while back

You should read the article in full.

"On September 1, 1983, Korean Air flight KE007 undertook its regular route from New York to Seoul via Anchorage, Alaska.

After taking off from Anchorage, the Boeing held a course for the South Korean capital, but for some still not decisively known reason severely, by 500km, deviated from its course, flying over the Kamchatka Peninsula and Sakhalin, territories where the Soviet Union had multiple military bases and other secretive installations.

It must be noted that KE007 was approaching Soviet airspace simultaneously with a Boeing RC-135 reconnaissance aircraft, and at a certain point the radar marks of the two aircraft merged. Later on, one of these marks on military radars entered Soviet airspace.

Throughout the flight, the KAL Boeing was flying with navigation lights out and withstood from establishing radio contact with the Soviet Sukhoi Su-15 fighter jets that took off to intercept the intruder, with the intention to force it make a landing on a Soviet airfield.

The Soviet military pilots that approached the intruder could not identify the aircraft visually from a distance of several kilometers because it was too dark and they could not believe that a plane without identification that had just passed a restricted airspace over Kamchatka could be some sort of passenger liner.

Once it became obvious that the suspected reconnaissance aircraft was going to escape with the data obtained, the Soviet pilots were ordered to shoot down the intruder aircraft".

Schadenfreudia

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Once it became obvious that the suspected reconnaissance aircraft was going to escape with the data obtained, the Soviet pilots were ordered to shoot down the intruder aircraft".

Indeed, and Ireland, which was later to facilitate US War Crimes for decades in Shannon, actually shut the Airport down to Soviet civilian aircraft re-fuelling in protest at the "deliberate shooting down" of the spy plane.

It didn't take post 9/11 actions to trash our imaginary "neutrality" or our very selective support for International Law! :rolleyes:

weisses

Busted Flat. wrote: »

You should read the article in full.

"On September 1, 1983, Korean Air flight KE007 undertook its regular route from New York to Seoul via Anchorage, Alaska.

After taking off from Anchorage, the Boeing held a course for the South Korean capital, but for some still not decisively known reason severely, by 500km, deviated from its course, flying over the Kamchatka Peninsula and Sakhalin, territories where the Soviet Union had multiple military bases and other secretive installations.

It must be noted that KE007 was approaching Soviet airspace simultaneously with a Boeing RC-135 reconnaissance aircraft, and at a certain point the radar marks of the two aircraft merged. Later on, one of these marks on military radars entered Soviet airspace.

Throughout the flight, the KAL Boeing was flying with navigation lights out and withstood from establishing radio contact with the Soviet Sukhoi Su-15 fighter jets that took off to intercept the intruder, with the intention to force it make a landing on a Soviet airfield.

The Soviet military pilots that approached the intruder could not identify the aircraft visually from a distance of several kilometers because it was too dark and they could not believe that a plane without identification that had just passed a restricted airspace over Kamchatka could be some sort of passenger liner.

Once it became obvious that the suspected reconnaissance aircraft was going to escape with the data obtained, the Soviet pilots were ordered to shoot down the intruder aircraft".

The pilot of the fighter jet recognised the Boeing as a civilian aircraft but took the shot nonetheless .. And then the order to shoot it down even over neutral territory

Source : airliners.net

Busted Flat.

weisses wrote: »

The pilot of the fighter jet recognised the Boeing as a civilian aircraft but took the shot nonetheless .. And then the order to shoot it down even over neutral territory

Source : airliners.net

Could you possibley highlight or show where that was reported, maybe I missed something.

weisses

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Could you possibley highlight or show where that was reported, maybe I missed something.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-articles/read.main?id=77

Its six parts you can google the rest if interested ...

Gatling

weisses wrote: »

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-articles/read.main?id=77

Its six parts you can google the rest if interested ...

Even better documentary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtXQTfRFh7o

weisses

Bellingcat investigation

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2015/10/08/mh17-the-open-source-evidence/

Summary

Based on the information above, it can be concluded that on July 17, 2014 a Buk missile launcher, originating from the 53rd Brigade near Kursk, Russia, travelled from Donetsk to Snizhne. It was then unloaded and drove under its own power to a field south of Snizhne, where at approximately 4:20 pm it launched a surface-to-air missile that hit Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 as it flew over Ukraine. On the morning of July 18, the Buk missile launcher was driven from Luhansk, Ukraine, across the border to Russia.

Alternative scenarios presented by the Russian Ministry of Defense and Almaz-Antey are at best deeply flawed, and at worst show a deliberate attempt to mislead using fabricated evidence.

darkpagandeath

weisses wrote: »

Bellingcat investigation

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2015/10/08/mh17-the-open-source-evidence/

Will be met with the usual "Proooooofs" from the old bot side.

Gatling

We've had two years of them ..




They loose every argument

Gatling

Speaking of MH17 the 2nd part of the investigation conserning the criminal aspect is due to be made public in the next week or so .
Expect russia to ramp up the propaganda were all innocent media report's and Internet posts to increase

weisses

Gatling wrote: »

We've had two years of them ..




They tend to loose every argument

They could do with a bit of extra training indeed

Gatling

weisses wrote: »

They could do with a bit of extra training indeed

Russian job bridge positions apparently

Shurimgreat

In fairness, they have done a good job at convincing a lot of people in the West that Russia is actually a half normal country. They have shaped opinion and many people in the west are easily led, especially on social media.

The Russians have in my opinion won most of the important propaganda battles recently.

Harika

Gatling wrote: »

Speaking of MH17 the 2nd part of the investigation conserning the criminal aspect is due to be made public in the next week or so .
Expect russia to ramp up the propaganda were all innocent media report's and Internet posts to increase

Russia today started already: https://www.rt.com/news/331833-mh17-dutch-probe-ignore/

Gatling

Harika wrote: »

Russia today started already: https://www.rt.com/news/331833-mh17-dutch-probe-ignore/

And it's widely believed they are behind the referendum calls in Holland over the last while ,

They want the truth as long as it absolves them of any involvement in the current situation in Ukraine and the downing of MH17

weisses

Harika wrote: »

Russia today started already: https://www.rt.com/news/331833-mh17-dutch-probe-ignore/

Oohh dear .. So much waffle, ahh well what to expect from a government mouthpiece called RT

Schadenfreudia

Harika wrote: »

Russia today started already: https://www.rt.com/news/331833-mh17-dutch-probe-ignore/

Excellent article by RT - sums things up accurately.

weisses

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

Excellent article by RT - sums things up accurately.

Ahh at least they secured funding for another year by good aul Vlad

Meanwhile

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russian-lawyer-claims-coverage-of-tiger-goat-friendship-is-gay-propaganda/557280.html

I'm surprised the Russians are not blaming the gays for MH17

Schadenfreudia

weisses wrote: »

Ahh at least they secured funding for another year by good aul Vlad

They give great value for money; a true Public Service that highlights all sorts of facts and issues our Western State and Corporate media would rather we ignore - RT is a win-win for all of us.

I just wish with their vast resources the Chinese could develop a fraction as influential and effective and outlet.

It would be interesting to get their take on MH-17, given their own experience with Malaysian Airlines.