Malaysian airline MH-17 discussion thread

Gatling

Skylinehead wrote: »

Nothing ever happens to the big boys in the UN. This'll go in the "nothing happens" bag just like Korea Air 007 and the USS Vincennes one.

weisses wrote: »

They will VETO themselves out of harms way

That whole UN is a charade

The whole thing should be scrapped have been saying it for years now .

Agreed with skyline too this was airliner No4 I believe now thats been shot down and yet nobody brought to justice or any real sanction for these actions,
For any country to go to the UN wether it be Russia , America or China or Israel any deny it's military are involved in illegal activity in sovereign states but then run and demand the UNSC dance to its tune when there not happy about something

gandalf

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Nothing next really.

- Whatever law suits will happen will creep forward and probably go nowhere.
- Europe might renew sanctions against Putin's oligarchs for another 6 months.... it might not, we'll see in December/January. European nations don't really care anymore so I think they might be dropped.

The world just moves on.

If Europe has any credibility at all the sanctions have to continued and if anything widened.

Then again at this stage Europe has probably lost all credibility anyway.

Can wait to see the fabrications coming from the Kremlins and its mouthpieces over the next week or so. At least it will be entertaining!!

ScumLord

Gatling wrote: »

The question is now , what next

I wonder would Malaysia airlines stop flying to Russia? Could they get other airlines to follow suit in solidarity?

Probably not.

Gringo180

I eagerly await the report of American weapon sales and donations to Israel that massacres thousands of innocents civilians in Gaza every couple of years and British weapon sales to the Saudi's who reign down terror on the heads of innocent civilians in Yemen.

ohnonotgmail

Gringo180 wrote: »

I eagerly await the report of American weapon sales and donations to Israel that massacres thousands of innocents civilians in Gaza every couple of years and British weapon sales to the Saudi's who reign down terror on the heads of innocent civilians in Yemen.

how are these in any way related?

BoJack Horseman

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

how are these in any way related?

In the mind of the Putinista there is only shrieks "B...B....B....but America = evil!"

The case for the defence failed the day this plane hit the ground, hence the default use of the non sequitur.

ChikiChiki

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

how are these in any way related?

To be fair I kind of see what the poster is getting at. The Americans tend to speak out of both sides of their mouths and are the biggest hypocrites of the lot.

Gringo180

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

how are these in any way related?

Because both examples have been used to kill innocent people. The selling of arms to dangerous people/countries who have no regard for human life.

ohnonotgmail

Gringo180 wrote: »

Because both examples have been used to kill innocent people. The selling of arms to dangerous people/countries who have no regard for human life.

and what does this have to do with the shooting down of an airliner?

Gringo180

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

In the mind of the Putinista there is only shrieks "B...B....B....but America = evil!"

The case for the defence failed the day this plane hit the ground, hence the default use of the non sequitur.

I care nowt for Putin or Russia. But I hate the hypocrisy of some on here to constantly bash them when in fact the Americans and Britain do the exact same and even worse. The Russians, if this report is to be true, sold weapons to dodgy people that tragically caused the loss of innocent life. Now as I said when will there be a report into Britain and America selling arms to the likes of Saudi Arabia? Who kill indescriminately with these weapons?

Gringo180

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

and what does this have to do with the shooting down of an airliner?

My goodness.

BoJack Horseman

Gringo180 wrote: »

The Russians, if this report is to be true, sold weapons to dodgy people

Sold?
Citation?

It seems they either gave it to rebels, or drove into Ukrainian territory, committed their act & drove home.

Arms sales are not a factor here.
After all, who would be the buyer?
Those in charge of the rebellion were Russian and or FSB themselves.
Internal sale perhaps?

ohnonotgmail

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Sold?
Citation?

It seems they either gave it to rebels, or drove into Ukrainian territory, committed their act & drove home.

Arms sales are not a factor here.
After all, who would be the buyer?
Those in charge of the rebellion were Russian and or FSB themselves.
Internal sale perhaps?

maybe they have some sort of accounting fiddle going on.

Gringo180

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Sold?
Citation?

It seems they either gave it to rebels, or drove into Ukrainian territory, committed their act & drove home.

Arms sales are not a factor here.

So Putin didnt commit the crime of shooting down the airliner.

If you are going to implicate Russia in the downing of this airliner, you agree that you must implicate America, Britain, and any other country that give arms to Israel or Saudi Arabia for innocent people being killed in Gaza or Yemen?

weisses

Gringo180 wrote: »

So Putin didnt commit the crime of shooting down the airliner.

If you are going to implicate Russia in the downing of this airliner, you agree that you must implicate America, Britain, and any other country that give arms to Israel or Saudi Arabia for innocent people being killed in Gaza or Yemen?

NO

That would be called whataboutery

Gringo180

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Those in charge of the rebellion were Russian and or FSB themselves.

Care to back that assertion up with some evidence? Are you saying Russian personnel downed this plane?

BoJack Horseman

Gringo180 wrote: »

So Putin didnt commit the crime of shooting down the airliner

Quote where that was mentioned?
Again, non-sequitur...... it is unlikely the Russian czar was huddled in the missiles fire control unit in the Ukrainian countryside.

But getting back to this arms sale to the 'rebels'?
Do you have anything to back this?

Gringo180

weisses wrote: »

NO

That would be called whataboutery

I think its called hypocrisy.

Elmer Blooker

Watching the "report" on tv today I immediately recognised this photo used as "evidence" and where I saw it before.
That's right, a photo posted on twitter is "evidence"!!

https://www.bellingcat.com/resources/case-studies/2015/01/27/examining-the-mh17-launch-smoke-photographs/

weisses

Gringo180 wrote: »

I think its called hypocrisy.

Wrong again

Gringo180

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Quote where that was mentioned?
Again, non-sequitur...... it is unlikely the Russian czar was huddled in the missiles fire control unit in the Ukrainian countryside.

But getting back to this arms sale to the 'rebels'?
Do you have anything to back this?

What dos it matter if it was a sale or not. The weapons ended up in the wrong hands. Just like they did when Saddam Hussein gassed the Kurds or attacked Iran. You see what I am getting at here?

Gringo180

weisses wrote: »

Wrong again

In your opinion.

weisses

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Watching the "report" on tv today I immediately recognised this photo used as "evidence" and where I saw it before.
That's right, a photo posted on twitter is "evidence"!!

https://www.bellingcat.com/resources/case-studies/2015/01/27/examining-the-mh17-launch-smoke-photographs/

It was taken into the investigation as of other bellingcat findings

If you saw the presentation they also stated that what they presented could be used in court ..So they made sure whatever was presented is legit and would stick

BoJack Horseman

Gringo180 wrote: »

What dos it matter if it was a sale or not

I'm seeking where you got this information from.

Selling weapons to 'rebels' run by the Russian state is rather bizarre.
I'm curious as to how you got this info?

Also, we don't know whose "hands" this weapon was in.
It may have been rebel hands, it may have been some of the thousands of Russian troops who have rotated into Ukraine as part of their invasion.
Again, if you know.... tell us how!

weisses

Gringo180 wrote: »

In your opinion.

Of course ... That still doesn't mean you are correct bringing in totally unrelated geopolitical issues into the MH17 debate

PlamenDon

I don't have too much faith in this investigation being impartial, Russia handed over radar data that was ignored and the investigators never got round to actually investigating it, Ukraine refused to hand over it's own radar data.

The investigators also ignored the Buk makers offering of their findings, the Dutch ignored and refused any help from them.

It wasn't an independent inquiry, the JIT was put together by NATO.

Elmer Blooker

weisses wrote: »

It was taken into the investigation as of other bellingcat findings

If you saw the presentation they also stated that what they presented could be used in court ..So they made sure whatever was presented is legit and would stick

A guy sitting at home in Coventry who calls himself a citizen journalist is not credible evidence and should NOT have been used as evidence!!

Gringo180

weisses wrote: »

Of course ... That still doesn't mean you are correct bringing in totally unrelated geopolitical issues into the MH17 debate

Im bringing it up because its another case of our media bashing Russia and turning a blind eye to our disastrous foreign policy. The BBC and Sky are getting as bad RT and Fox News.

weisses

PlamenDon wrote: »

I don't have too much faith in this investigation being impartial, Russia handed over radar data that was ignored and the investigators never got round to actually investigating it, Ukraine refused to hand over it's own radar data.

The investigators also ignored the Buk makers offering of their findings, the Dutch ignored and refused any help from them.

It wasn't an independent inquiry, the JIT was put together by NATO.

Case can be made without the radar data

Dutch didn't ignore the BUK makers ..They found evidence in the plane wreck and bodies proofing it was the type of BUK mentioned in the report .....

BoJack Horseman

PlamenDon wrote: »

Russia handed over radar data that was ignored

Well yeah.... of course it was ignored.
After all, it was faked.
Something the Kremlin quietly acknowledged on Monday.