Malaysian airline MH-17 discussion thread

Lingua Franca

TeddyTedson wrote: »

It would be harsh and personally I'd fly with them tomorrow but I think they'll be doing well to stay afloat over the next few years.
(Pun not intended btw)

Malaysian Airlines had another flight out from Schiphol this evening and local news was interviewing passengers in the airport. We were talking among ourselves at the time and so missed what was said.

tomwaterford

signostic wrote: »

From The Telegraph "We reported earlier that the Ukrainian security services had released what they say are recordings proving that Russian military intelligence ordered MH17 to be shot down (20.16), and later the English transcript of that call (21.00). Here's the recording again with full English subtitles included this time"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VnuHxAR01Jo

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10974050/Malaysia-Airlines-plane-crashes-on-Ukraine-Russia-border-live.html

if this is true....they are playing a dangerous game....what reasons would Russia have to shoot down civilan aircraft

unless they are getting pissed off with helping separtists in Ukraine and want out and are now willing to turn blind eye to what Ukraine will do to crush the uprising

ceadaoin.

stooge wrote: »

Too much of a coincidence for me that Israel start a ground offensive into Gaza to wipe out much of the Palestinian militants, and on the exact same day, the top news story for global media is instead taken by a shot down plane story.

Conspiracy theory maybe but what are the chances?

The gaza story has been getting lots of coverage on cnn at least. It's not like it's being ignored.

darkpagandeath

ceadaoin. wrote: »

The gaza story has been getting lots of coverage on cnn at least. It's not like it's being ignored.

There is a camera beaming live picture last time i looked at one of the news channels.

murpho999

How can they not know all the nationalities when everyone must check in with a passport?

darkpagandeath

murpho999 wrote: »

How can they not know all the nationalities when everyone must check in with a passport?

Damage control ? public backlash in America would be massive calls for action. At the moment they seem to be doing a lot to keep it ambiguous.

murpho999

stooge wrote: »

Too much of a coincidence for me that Israel start a ground offensive into Gaza to wipe out much of the Palestinian militants, and on the exact same day, the top news story for global media is instead taken by a shot down plane story.

Conspiracy theory maybe but what are the chances?

Seriously how do people make these connections?

Israel has its own agenda and doesn't give f*ck what others think and would have had their operation planned all along.

What are you implying that? That they were involved with the MH17 shooting down to deflect attention?

Precious flower

Saw on the BBC website that they've listed the nationalities (can't link it as I'm on the phone) but mostly Malaysian and dutch obviously, some Britons, Americans, Canadian, German and can't recall the rest. No Irish, but Briton could include Northern Irish too, yes? Such a horrible tragedy! RIP to those poor, innocent people! The poor families too!

murpho999

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Damage control ? public backlash in America would be massive calls for action. At the moment they seem to be doing a lot to keep it ambiguous.

Why would a VP from Malaysia Airlines keep nationalities secret?

It has to come out sometime.

Kiwi in IE

Fudge You wrote: »

Ridiculous statement.
Why does an Irish person you never meet mean more than an Brit, American, Malaysian etc??

I think that is an irrational, but natural way to think. When I heard the manifest in terms of nationality my first thought was "sh*t there was lots of Aussies, but good no Kiwi's or Irish". That dosn't mean that I feel any more upset about the (hopefully) unknown Aussies, or would have been more upset about unkown Kiwi's or Irish, than anyone else on that plane, but I did think that and pay particular attention to their numbers none the less.

Indestructable

They have to be one hundred percent sure of everyone on board before they could release the list of names. If a person had checked in and subsequently missed the flight for whatever reason and their name was released there would be a commotion. It's peoples lives so they have to be entirely sure.

seamus

tomwaterford wrote: »

if this is true....they are playing a dangerous game....what reasons would Russia have to shoot down civilan aircraft

unless they are getting pissed off with helping separtists in Ukraine and want out and are now willing to turn blind eye to what Ukraine will do to crush the uprising

I posted on Conspiracy theories, but seems as relevant here.

If MH17 was picked out deliberately, then one of the parties is trying to expand the scope of this war.
Ukraine would love nothing more than some real hardware support from the EU and the US.
The rebels want "official" support from Russia, which they will get if the EU and US arrive in Ukraine.
And Russia, well Putin is a nutcase. Russia is dying for an excuse to continue their incursion into Ukrainian territory and protecting Russians from the US seems like a handy excuse.

Still seems like it was probably a big fnck up by the rebels though.

My name is URL

murpho999 wrote: »

Why would a VP from Malaysia Airlines keep nationalities secret?

It has to come out sometime.

Maybe they've been advised not to release that stuff until all family members have been notified.

skeg16

Mint Sauce wrote: »

Well having one of their planes shot down, is hardly their fault.

True but what were they doing flying over that airspace??? Bit of a dodgy move.

I would gladly fly an extra couple of hours if it meant avoiding that route

darkpagandeath

skeg16 wrote: »

True but what were they doing flying over that airspace??? Bit of a dodgy move.

I would gladly fly an extra couple of hours if it meant avoiding that route

Bad weather, they had to divert from the other flight path. Planes don’t have unlimited fuel, so probably could not divert another direction.

murpho999

My name is URL wrote: »

Maybe they've been advised not to release that stuff until all family members have been notified.

So they can say 153 Dutch have been killed but not from another country.

Makes no sense.

BlaasForRafa

tomwaterford wrote: »

if this is true....they are playing a dangerous game....what reasons would Russia have to shoot down civilan aircraft

unless they are getting pissed off with helping separtists in Ukraine and want out and are now willing to turn blind eye to what Ukraine will do to crush the uprising

Huh?

The most obvious explanation would be that they thought they were firing at a Ukrainian air force transport, they shot down an IL-76 last month which is a large 4 engine transport/passenger plane.

My name is URL

murpho999 wrote: »

So they can say 153 Dutch have been killed but not from another country.

Makes no sense.

I'm sure there are various consular liaisons from different countries working with them.

Perhaps the Dutch have already given them the go-ahead to state how many Dutch people were on board while other nations are still looking at the flight manifest and confirming that all people that were supposed to be on the plane, were on it.

I'm only speculating btw.

RoryMac

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Bad weather, they had to divert from the other flight path. Planes don’t have unlimited fuel, so probably could not divert another direction.

Where was the divert mentioned, I haven't seen it anywhere. There were several airlines flying through that area up until today and I saw it mentioned there were 2 other planes there at the time of the attack

Kiwi in IE

Could it be the relevant State departments in the Nations concerned that are requesting that the public release of the number of their nationals be delayed? For example in countries where they have blustering Republicans trying to whip their supporters into a warmongering frenzy?

darkpagandeath

RoryMac wrote: »

Where was the divert mentioned, I haven't seen it anywhere. There were several airlines flying through that area up until today and I saw it mentioned there were 2 other plans there at the time of the attack

That CNN 24 hour news channel on upc, Had a guy with graphic showing normal flight path. Then showed the divert due to extreme weather.

Meglamonia

darkpagandeath wrote: »

That CNN 24 hour news channel on upc, Had a guy with graphic showing normal flight path. Then showed the divert due to extreme weather.

First I've heard of a diversion don't think that's true.

Stheno

Just watching the news on this.

God love the poor families coming to terms with the loss of their loved ones in such a shocking and unexpected way

murpho999

My name is URL wrote: »

I'm sure there are various consular liaisons from different countries working with them.

Perhaps the Dutch have already given them the go-ahead to state how many Dutch people were on board while other nations are still looking at the flight manifest and confirming that all people that were supposed to be on the plane, were on it.

I'm only speculating btw.

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Could it be the relevant State departments in the Nations concerned that are requesting that the public release of the number of their nationals be delayed? For example in countries where they have blustering Republicans trying to whip their supporters into a warmongering frenzy?

Really don't see why nationalities of passenger's is such a sensitive issue?

Don't get how concealing that Americans on board, that will eventually come out, will raise nationalists' heckles looking for war.

stooge

murpho999 wrote: »

Seriously how do people make these connections?

Israel has its own agenda and doesn't give f*ck what others think and would have had their operation planned all along.

What are you implying that? That they were involved with the MH17 shooting down to deflect attention?

No, I was more thinking about the tactic of hiding bad news/events behind big news stories. No better way to hide the deaths of children and innocent civilians by using a big news story such as this.

P.s. It really didn't belong on this thread. Sorry. This is a terrible tragedy regardless of the cause and other events.

Lingua Franca

murpho999 wrote: »

Really don't see why nationalities of passenger's is such a sensitive issue?

Don't get how concealing that Americans on board, that will eventually come out, will raise nationalists' heckles looking for war.

Protocol, and it happens every time there's an air crash. There's no big conspiracy happening and they would of course know the nationalities. The need to inform the families and confirm identities with the various countries involved surpasses your need to know all of the nationalities on board right this very minute.

josip

BBC reporting

• 154 Dutch nationals, 27 Australians, 23 Malaysians, 11 Indonesians
• Six Britons, four Germans, four Belgians, three from the Philippines and one Canadian
• All 15 of the crew were Malaysian

Rhys Essien

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Huh?

The most obvious explanation would be that they thought they were firing at a Ukrainian air force transport, they shot down an IL-76 last month which is a large 4 engine transport/passenger plane.

This plane was flying at 33,000ft almost over the Russian border heading east into Russian airspace.The rebels would/should have known that this was not a Ukrainian aircraft.Ukrainian military aircraft would not be heading into Russian airspace.It makes no sense.Think about it.

I wonder did they just get trigger happy testing their new toy.

Eramen

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

They only people with the technology to shoot it down are the Russians.

And the Americans / Nato.. or maybe that is too 'out there' for you?

Kiwi in IE

murpho999 wrote: »

Really don't see why nationalities of passenger's is such a sensitive issue?

Don't get how concealing that Americans on board, that will eventually come out, will raise nationalists' heckles looking for war.

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/17/john-mccain-therell-be-hell-pay-if-plane-shot-down/

Although even he pointed out that the facts are not all out, veiled threats about 'hell to pay' before they are are hardly professional or helpful.