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Malaysian airline MH-17 discussion thread

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    #4232
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    PlamenDon wrote: »
    I read it, theres no proof, theres plenty of speculation, nothing concrete, can you show me a single provable fact from that, there is none, it's written, you believe, shame on you.

    You said earlier it's full of lies, I've asked you to point out the lies. On this forum the onus is on you to point out all those lies.


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    #4233
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    PlamenDon wrote: »
    I read it, theres no proof, theres plenty of speculation, nothing concrete, can you show me a single provable fact from that, there is none, it's written, you believe, shame on you.

    Who else in the Area was shooting down Ukrainian aircraft ? The rebels have no planes to shoot down.


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    #4234
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Gatling wrote: »
    Anyone remember the Ukrainian airforce pilot who the Russian media interviewed on the tarmac only minutes after he shot down MH17

    This just gets better.

    Double conspiracy.... pilot inverview AND SU-25 bullsh*t!

    And..... to top off the Kremlin bot BS..... I present, not 1 fictional Ukrainian jet.... but two!


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    #4235
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    PlamenDon wrote: »
    Did I say it?, no I didn't so don't associate me with it.

    I was pointing out speculation by the Pro Russian camp than never present data. But make wild claims about ground attack planes, Jet trooper, Leaders plane the target and so on so forth.


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    #4236
    PlamenDon
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 246 ✭✭PlamenDon


    gandalf wrote: »
    You said earlier it's full of lies, I've asked you to point out the lies. On this forum the onus is on you to point out all those lies.

    Well sorry I must have got carried away earlier, what I meant is theres no truth in it, it's unproved speculation.


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    #4237
    PlamenDon
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 246 ✭✭PlamenDon


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    I was pointing out speculation by the Pro Russian camp than never present data. But make wild claims about ground attack planes, Jet trooper, Leaders plane the target and so on so forth.

    Again, did I say it?

    If you want my feedback talk about what I said, nobody else.


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    #4238
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Anyone got a loan of a JCB for the others
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #4239
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    PlamenDon wrote: »
    Well sorry I must have got carried away earlier, what I meant is theres no truth in it, it's unproved speculation.

    Wow, I don't think I could get through the thousands of documents that fast. You got a bullet point document to show us the various lies ?


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    #4240
    PlamenDon
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 246 ✭✭PlamenDon


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Who else in the Area was shooting down Ukrainian aircraft ? The rebels have no planes to shoot down.

    I don't know.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_Operations_(United_States)


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    #4241
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    PlamenDon wrote: »
    Again, did I say it?

    If you want my feedback talk about what I said, nobody else.

    I don't think that's how a discussion forum works ? Bringing points from various speculation with no data. To enquire why one side only has to produce data.


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    #4242
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    PlamenDon wrote: »
    I don't know.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_Operations_(United_States)

    Lol, What about the little green men ?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_green_men_(Ukrainian_crisis)


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    #4243
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    PlamenDon wrote: »
    Well sorry I must have got carried away earlier, what I meant is theres no truth in it, it's unproved speculation.

    Well there must be proof the investigators have stated the following.
    The criminal investigation focusses on truth finding and its ultimate goal is tracing and prosecuting the perpetrators. The big difference with a journalistic documentary or an internet-based investigation report is that in our case conclusions based on probability will not suffice. The most important in the JIT investigation is that we can substantiate our conclusions with legal and convincing evidence. In doing so the bar is high: the evidence must stand before a court. We are confident that the evidence which we have collected removes any kind of doubt about the cause of the crash. Of course, ultimately it will be up to the court to render a final judgment.

    https://www.om.nl/onderwerpen/mh17-vliegramp/presentaties/presentation-joint/

    Ultimately a court will decide (if we get that far) but I would be a lot more confident that this investigation is based on facts rather than the absolute fiction that the Russian state and it numerous cheerleaders have trotted out since the 298 people on MH17 were murdered.


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    #4244
    PlamenDon
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 246 ✭✭PlamenDon


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Lol, What about the little green men ?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_green_men_(Ukrainian_crisis)

    LOL, you denying there is a psyop division?


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    #4245
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    PlamenDon wrote: »
    LOL, you denying there is a psyop division?

    Yes no one has psychic powers....


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    #4246
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    PlamenDon wrote: »
    there is a psyop division?

    Case and point except we got psych challenged division
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #4247
    PlamenDon
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 246 ✭✭PlamenDon


    gandalf wrote: »
    Well there must be proof the investigators have stated the following.



    https://www.om.nl/onderwerpen/mh17-vliegramp/presentaties/presentation-joint/

    Ultimately a court will decide (if we get that far) but I would be a lot more confident that this investigation is based on facts rather than the absolute fiction that the Russian state and it numerous cheerleaders have trotted out since the 298 people on MH17 were murdered.

    But there is no concrete evidence, I've read it and what it is lacking is a smoking gun, even if they say they have it, they haven't shown it.


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    #4248
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    PlamenDon wrote: »
    LOL, you denying there is a psyop division?

    What relevance is this to the conversation. You talk about unfounded speculation and then hypocritically post crud like that. And then you admit you can't back up an assertion that made earlier saying today's presentation was full of lies.


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    #4249
    Elmer Blooker
    Registered Users Posts: 6,125 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    This just gets better.

    Double conspiracy.... pilot inverview AND SU-25 bullsh*t!

    And..... to top off the Kremlin bot BS..... I present, not 1 fictional Ukrainian jet.... but two!
    Well ..... it wasn't Putinbots or whatever you're calling them this week who started the SU-25 theory.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ze9BNGDyk4


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    #4250
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    PlamenDon wrote: »
    But there is no concrete evidence, I've read it and what it is lacking is a smoking gun, even if they say they have it, they haven't shown it.

    To be blunt I don't think you and your ilk will be happy with any report unless they have a picture of Vladimir Putin launching the Buk and then dancing on the victims graves afterwards.


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    #4251
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Elmer Blooker wrote: »
    Well ..... it wasn't Putinbots or whatever you're calling them this week who started the SU-25 theory.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ze9BNGDyk4

    No but the Russian Ministry of Defence ran with it :rolleyes:


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    #4252
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    gandalf wrote: »
    To be blunt I don't think you and your ilk will be happy with any report unless they have a picture of Vladimir Putin launching the Buk and then dancing on the victims graves afterwards.

    http://i.imgur.com/KDj7zER.png


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    #4253
    PlamenDon
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 246 ✭✭PlamenDon


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Yes no one has psychic powers....

    That's not what I said, I'm referring to the psychological operation's that the US developed a long time ago and is widely known about in higher spheres of intellect, that's probably why you haven't a clue.

    Gatling wrote: »
    Case and point except we got psych challenged division


    As above.


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    #4254
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    PlamenDon wrote: »
    That's not what I said, I'm referring to the psychological operation's that the US developed a long time ago and is widely known about in higher spheres of intellect, that's probably why you haven't a clue.





    As above.

    :pac::pac::pac:


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    #4255
    PlamenDon
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 246 ✭✭PlamenDon


    gandalf wrote: »
    What relevance is this to the conversation. You talk about unfounded speculation and then hypocritically post crud like that. And then you admit you can't back up an assertion that made earlier saying today's presentation was full of lies.

    Haha, you just keep swallowing, do you call that evidence, look deeper and you'll see the cracks, open up, here's another load of shite for you to swallow, no questions asked.


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    #4256
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    PlamenDon wrote: »
    Haha, you just keep swallowing, do you call that evidence, look deeper and you'll see the cracks, open up, here's another load of shite for you to swallow, no questions asked.

    :pac::pac::D:D:D:P


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    #4257
    PlamenDon
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 246 ✭✭PlamenDon


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    :pac::pac::pac:

    Don't choke on this......

    http://www.military.com/ContentFiles/techtv_update_PSYOPS.htm


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    #4258
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    PlamenDon wrote: »
    Haha, you just keep swallowing, do you call that evidence, look deeper and you'll see the cracks, open up, here's another load of shite for you to swallow, no questions asked.

    So just smart ass quips and no ability to back up your assertion that it's full of lies. Pathetic.


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    #4259
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Elmer Blooker wrote: »
    Well ..... it wasn't Putinbots or whatever you're calling them this week who started the SU-25 theory

    It must be frustrating to have the story change so much.

    - The SU-25 that didn't exist
    - Shot down by a missile that wouldn't have the legs to reach the airliner and hit the wrong location for an IR-seeker missile.
    - And now its "machine gun fire".... seemingly way too small to be from GSH-30mm cannon the SU-25 uses.... and again, the plane wouldn't have been able to reach MH17s altitude... and was traveling faster than the slow moving Sukhoi ever could in a climb!

    As conspiracys went.... it was just a bad choice all round.


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    #4260
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    PlamenDon wrote: »
    Don't choke on this......

    http://www.military.com/ContentFiles/techtv_update_PSYOPS.htm

    I'm well aware of psychological warfare... From noise to propaganda. but how did that down MH-17 with a Russian BUK system ? How do I check if I'm a Manchurian Candidate ?


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    #4261
    PlamenDon
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 246 ✭✭PlamenDon


    gandalf wrote: »
    So just smart ass quips and no ability to back up your assertion that it's full of lies. Pathetic.

    No, I work with fact, it hasn't been shown, this investigative report is only speculation, I could have posted link after link all along refuting the report but I'd have been called a Putinite or whatever the term is, because all of refuting is coming from the other side, still doesn't make it wrong.


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