Malaysian airline MH-17 discussion thread

slapper999

Looks like the russians arent happy with the bs nonsense coming from the dutch.

Russia to summon Dutch ambassador over MH17 investigation

reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-crisis-mh17-russia-netherland-idUSKCN1202IZ

Gatling

slapper999 wrote: »

Looks

Like another one

HensVassal

weisses wrote: »

Sometimes the cold hard facts makes for bad stories

Don't forget this criminal investigation was designed to be usable in a court of law so they made sure all the facts they presented will stand up for scrutiny

So calling this a non story is a non runner I'm afraid

In a court of law! That's a good one. Are you aware that Ukraine had veto powers to block the publication of any evidence/information/data/findings at will.

If that's your definition of transparency and you're happy with that level of investigative diligence and impartiality then one can only roll their eyes, sigh and feel pity.

weisses

HensVassal wrote: »

In a court of law! That's a good one. Are you aware that Ukraine had veto powers to block the publication of any evidence/information/data/findings at will.

If that's your definition of transparency and you're happy with that level of investigative diligence and impartiality then one can only roll their eyes, sigh and feel pity.

A court of law yes .... That's how thorough the investigation is .... As for The Ukraine VETO..... one can only roll their eyes, sigh and feel pity.

HensVassal

weisses wrote: »

A court of law yes .... That's how thorough the investigation is .... As for The Ukraine VETO..... one can only roll their eyes, sigh and feel pity.

Are you denying that the Ukrainians had gag powers?

Gatling

weisses wrote: »

A court of law yes .... That's how thorough the investigation is .... As for The Ukraine VETO..... one can only roll their eyes, sigh and feel pity.

But yet it was russia who done the blocking and attempted to try to control the investigation.

Wonder why they insisted that shotdown be removed from documents for Downed

VladamirP

The investigation has totally ignore eye witness account from the ground, it ignore 30mm cannon fire evidences in the cockpit area and on wing, it ignore that the mh17 fly for 44 second at same speed and altitude after all communication lost and was hit by missile, when people go to investigate kiev nazi forces keep shelling wreckage area preventing somebody to enter the area.

BoJack Horseman

VladamirP wrote: »

The investigation has totally ignore eye witness account from the ground, it ignore 30mm cannon fire evidences in the cockpit area and on wing, it ignore that the mh17 fly for 44 second at same speed and altitude after all communication lost and was hit by missile, when people go to investigate kiev nazi forces keep shelling wreckage area preventing somebody to enter the area.

Back in the day the bots would try a little harder!

Gatling

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Back in the day the bots would try a little harder!

Ah the good old days

weisses

HensVassal wrote: »

Are you denying that the Ukrainians had gag powers?

A veto as part of a criminal investigation .... The mind boggles ...

Maybe post the relevant section that Ukraine can veto the criminal investigation

weisses

VladamirP wrote: »

The investigation has totally ignore eye witness account from the ground, it ignore 30mm cannon fire evidences in the cockpit area and on wing, it ignore that the mh17 fly for 44 second at same speed and altitude after all communication lost and was hit by missile, when people go to investigate kiev nazi forces keep shelling wreckage area preventing somebody to enter the area.

They ignored more things ... Did you hear about the alien link ?

PlamenDon

Looking into the 44 second claim made by "VladamirP" it is strange, first I've heard of it.

The flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorders were cut off, presumably when the aircraft was hit with a missile, how did the plane continue on for 44 seconds at the same speed and altitude?

MH17 speed and altitude unchanged for 44 seconds after FDR and CVR stopped
The Dutch Safety Board preliminary report stated that both the Cockpit Voice Recorder and Flight Data Recorder stopped recording at 13:20:03 UTC time. That is 16:20:03 local Ukrainian time.

However, according to the clock shown on the Rostov Air Traffic Control radar, after the CVR and FDR stopped MH17 continued to fly at Flightlevel 330 and a speed of about 900 km /hour for 44 seconds before the speed and altitude dropped rapidly.

Another remarkable fact is that the speed and altitude are still shown at all. Especially the altitude as a transponder is required to read the altitude of an aircraft on a radarscreen. This means that at the same time both CVR and FDR were not recording anymore, the transponder of MH17 was operational. The antennas for transmitting transponder data to the radar are located near the cockpit. One antenna on the belly and one on top of the fuselage. If the cockpit was separated there would be no antenna to transmit transponder data.
http://www.whathappenedtoflightmh17.com/mh17-speed-and-altitude-unchanged-for-44-seconds-after-fdr-and-cvr-stopped/

darkpagandeath

PlamenDon wrote: »

Looking into the 44 second claim made by "VladamirP" it is strange, first I've heard of it.

The flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorders were cut off, presumably when the aircraft was hit with a missile, how did the plane continue on for 44 seconds at the same speed and altitude?

MH17 speed and altitude unchanged for 44 seconds after FDR and CVR stopped
The Dutch Safety Board preliminary report stated that both the Cockpit Voice Recorder and Flight Data Recorder stopped recording at 13:20:03 UTC time. That is 16:20:03 local Ukrainian time.

However, according to the clock shown on the Rostov Air Traffic Control radar, after the CVR and FDR stopped MH17 continued to fly at Flightlevel 330 and a speed of about 900 km /hour for 44 seconds before the speed and altitude dropped rapidly.

Another remarkable fact is that the speed and altitude are still shown at all. Especially the altitude as a transponder is required to read the altitude of an aircraft on a radarscreen. This means that at the same time both CVR and FDR were not recording anymore, the transponder of MH17 was operational. The antennas for transmitting transponder data to the radar are located near the cockpit. One antenna on the belly and one on top of the fuselage. If the cockpit was separated there would be no antenna to transmit transponder data.
http://www.whathappenedtoflightmh17.com/mh17-speed-and-altitude-unchanged-for-44-seconds-after-fdr-and-cvr-stopped/

Remind us again who had the Data recorder ?

CMOTDibbler

PlamenDon wrote: »

Looking into the 44 second claim made by "VladamirP" it is strange, first I've heard of it.

The flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorders were cut off, presumably when the aircraft was hit with a missile, how did the plane continue on for 44 seconds at the same speed and altitude?

MH17 speed and altitude unchanged for 44 seconds after FDR and CVR stopped
The Dutch Safety Board preliminary report stated that both the Cockpit Voice Recorder and Flight Data Recorder stopped recording at 13:20:03 UTC time. That is 16:20:03 local Ukrainian time.

However, according to the clock shown on the Rostov Air Traffic Control radar, after the CVR and FDR stopped MH17 continued to fly at Flightlevel 330 and a speed of about 900 km /hour for 44 seconds before the speed and altitude dropped rapidly.

Another remarkable fact is that the speed and altitude are still shown at all. Especially the altitude as a transponder is required to read the altitude of an aircraft on a radarscreen. This means that at the same time both CVR and FDR were not recording anymore, the transponder of MH17 was operational. The antennas for transmitting transponder data to the radar are located near the cockpit. One antenna on the belly and one on top of the fuselage. If the cockpit was separated there would be no antenna to transmit transponder data.
http://www.whathappenedtoflightmh17.com/mh17-speed-and-altitude-unchanged-for-44-seconds-after-fdr-and-cvr-stopped/

I know it's kind of obvious, but two different systems can display different times.

PlamenDon

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Remind us again who had the Data recorder ?

It was handed over intact by the seperatist's, untampered with, given to the Malaysians, who gave it to the Dutch, why?

PlamenDon

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I know it's kind of obvious, but two different systems can display different times.

The plane transmits the time from it's transponder, I'd imagine the transponder, cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder would all be synced.

CMOTDibbler

PlamenDon wrote: »

The plane transmits the time from it's transponder, I'd imagine the transponder, cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder would all be synced.

They probably should alright, but I'm not sure what clock is being referred to in the Rostov ATC. Surely the ATC would have their own clocks rather than having input from a variety of transponders on the many aircraft they monitor?

CMOTDibbler

I've seen another plausible explanation (apart from clocks not being in sync). Flight levels on radar are corridors arther than actual altitude. There could be several hundred metres between one flight corridor and the next. So the reading of 330 might well have been anything between 290 and 330 for example.

PlamenDon

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

They probably should alright, but I'm not sure what clock is being referred to in the Rostov ATC. Surely the ATC would have their own clocks rather than having input from a variety of transponders on the many aircraft they monitor?

So it's not kind of obvious after all?
I read it's the transmitted from the aircraft time, not the ATC clock on the wall time.

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

I've seen another plausible explanation (apart from clocks not being in sync). Flight levels on radar are corridors arther than actual altitude. There could be several hundred metres between one flight corridor and the next. So the reading of 330 might well have been anything between 290 and 330 for example.

No that's not plausible, between 290 and 330 doesn't really make a difference, a plane blown out of the sky doesn't have somewhere between 290 and 330 for 44 seconds.

Gatling

Actually the flight recorder's were sent to Farnborough straight from Ukraine for independent analysis

CMOTDibbler

PlamenDon wrote: »

So it's not kind of obvious after all?
I read it's the transmitted from the aircraft time, not the ATC clock on the wall time.

I meant kind of too obvious. As in I was sure it'd already been considered but hadn't seen it mentioned.

PlamenDon wrote: »

No that's not plausible, between 290 and 330 doesn't really make a difference, a plane blown out of the sky doesn't have somewhere between 290 and 330 for 44 seconds.

Thanks.

HensVassal

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Remind us again who had the Data recorder ?

The recorders were handed over intact and analysed in Britain.
The analysts said they were not tampered with:

www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2014/07/24/cockpit-voice-recorder-not-tampered-with/

But don't let that prevent you from your usual scurrilous tactics of repeating the lie or trying to rewrite the facts.

darkpagandeath

HensVassal wrote: »

The recorders were handed over intact and analysed in Britain.
The analysts said they were not tampered with:

www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2014/07/24/cockpit-voice-recorder-not-tampered-with/

But don't let that prevent you from your usual scurrilous tactics of repeating the lie or trying to rewrite the facts.

What lie ?

PlamenDon

darkpagandeath wrote: »

What lie ?

Why did you need reminding of where the black box's came from, who had them?, were to trying to insinuate some false notion you had?

HensVassal

darkpagandeath wrote: »

What lie ?

I'll reword it.....your false insinuation that the Russians cracked open the recorders and tampered with them.

What did you mean by your comment "remind us again who had the recorders"?
What were you attempting with that post?

Gatling

darkpagandeath wrote: »

What lie ?

Good oul deflection when there caught out they start with calling people liars while been unable to speak a word of truth

BoJack Horseman

Gatling wrote: »

Good oul deflection when there caught out they start with calling people liars while been unable to speak a word of truth

I still want the Kremlin to tell us what happened to their SU-25 theory?

They need to follow through on the lie before moving onto another!

PlamenDon

Gatling wrote: »

Good oul deflection when there caught out they start with calling people liars while been unable to speak a word of truth

Nobody caught anybody out, you haven't answered a single question since I've been here.

HensVassal

Gatling wrote: »

Good oul deflection when there caught out they start with calling people liars while been unable to speak a word of truth

Trying to shoehorn the allusion that the Russians tampered with the recorders is what one would call deflection. It's a fact the recorders were delivered intact yet the poster still tried that worn out little trick. You even set him straight yourself. And he won't explain what he was trying to accomplish with the comment.

Gatling

PlamenDon wrote: »

Nobody caught anybody out, you haven't answered a single question since I've been here.

I've answered all questions with actual facts .


But hey let us know when you find more comical conspiracy's