Malaysian airline MH-17 discussion thread

gandalf

EoghanIRL wrote: »

Apparently the missiles could not be fired without some sort of specialists . People are speculating that a Russian specialist group helped guide the missile or helped it fire .
I'm sure the truth will be well covered up anyways .

I would wager a large sum of money that those who fired this missile won't be telling their story. They have been "silenced" by now.

keith16

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

The situation that led up to this is Russia stealing territory from a neighbouring country

Unfortunately for comrade Putin, his henchmen in Ukraine shot down an international civilian airliner.

I don't think the situation that led up to it was quite so simple. Russia just didn't decide to steal territory on a whim. More complex than that.

I would have defended Russia's role somewhat in the general conflict before this, but I fully agree with the second part of your post. It does indeed look very bad for the pro-Russian factions. I have no doubt they committed this atrocity.

seamus wrote: »

It's just a complete cluster****. There's a chance that someone could have survived the crash, ...

First order of business should be scouring the wreckage for survivors, then arranging for the bodies to be respectfully recovered and treated - not walking around with video cameras searching for loot FFS.

I don't see how anyone could have survived it. You're right tho, but unfortunately, this incident happened in a region that is now entirely lawless.

Rhys Essien

seamus wrote: »

It's just a complete cluster****. There's a chance that someone could have survived the crash, but given that those first on the scene seemed more occupied with looting, the odds of them reaching a hospital in time would be slim to none. First order of business should be scouring the wreckage for survivors, then arranging for the bodies to be respectfully recovered and treated - not walking around with video cameras searching for loot FFS.

There is no chance in hell that anyone survived.The plane would have exploded at 33,000ft.Instant decompression.Temperatures at that height are around -30C.Then you fall to earth from over six miles up.

tom_k

Rhys Essien wrote: »

There is no chance in hell that anyone survived.The plane would have exploded at 33,000ft.Instant decompression.Temperatures at that height are around -30C.Then you fall to earth from over six miles up.

While extremely unlikely, it has happened...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesna_Vulovi%C4%87

Rhys Essien

tom_k wrote: »

While extremely unlikely, it has happened...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesna_Vulovi%C4%87

What seems to have saved her is in the '2009 report' part of that,it says that the plane broke up only a few hundred metres above the ground.

In Ukraine,going by how far the wreckage is spread out,its obvious that it instantly blew up at 33,000ft.

Micky Dolenz

Rhys Essien wrote: »

What seems to have saved her is in the '2009 report' part of that,it says that the plane broke up only a few hundred metres above the ground.

In Ukraine,going by how far the wreckage is spread out,its obvious that it instantly blew up at 33,000ft.

That 2009 report isn't official and is only a claim btw.

Rhys Essien

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

That 2009 report isn't official and is only a claim btw.

This claim is allegedly backed by secret reports in which several eyewitnesses said that they saw Vulović's plane flying below the clouds before it crashed and maps drawn by Czechoslovak investigators showing that the largest parts of the plane were found in an area that is rather smaller than would have been expected if the plane broke apart at the claimed altitude.

seamus

Rhys Essien wrote: »

In Ukraine,going by how far the wreckage is spread out,its obvious that it instantly blew up at 33,000ft.

Actually there's footage of the plane coming down (like a stone), and although it's pretty grainy, it looks like the front of the fuselage and the wings were intact all of the way down, i.e. the missile removed the rear of the aircraft. The large fireball on impact would also indicate that at least one wing was intact.
In general going by the reports and the images it would appear that it was hugely destroyed in midair, but a majority section of the aircraft and passengers remained intact down to the ground.

rockbeast

Rhys Essien wrote: »

This claim is allegedly backed by secret reports in which several eyewitnesses said that they saw Vulović's plane flying below the clouds before it crashed and maps drawn by Czechoslovak investigators showing that the largest parts of the plane were found in an area that is rather smaller than would have been expected if the plane broke apart at the claimed altitude.

Way to start a point

It is sickening, 298 people dead.
Everyone knows who is ultimately responsible I.e. Russia. The world will condemn the missile strike and there may even be some limited sanctions against Russia.
No one will step in to end the conflict in Ukraine, no one will be held accountable, there will be no repercussions.
To top it all off, we get to see the bodies being looted, no respect shown for the dead, these people are Neanderthals. Our highly evolved society thinks nothing of tweeting and uploading horrific pictures of the dead all over the web so that friends and relatives can see the grotesque images.
I don't like Israel tactics but I find myself wishing that some country would go in and bomb the f$%k out of the Russian seperatists.

wretcheddomain

Rhys Essien wrote: »

This claim is allegedly backed by secret reports in which several eyewitnesses said that they saw Vulović's plane flying below the clouds before it crashed and maps drawn by Czechoslovak investigators showing that the largest parts of the plane were found in an area that is rather smaller than would have been expected if the plane broke apart at the claimed altitude.

Pedantry - the chances of survival, even under your specified conditions, are still extremely slim.

Incomparable with MH17 which was shot down at 33,000ft.

Rhys Essien

rockbeast wrote: »

Way to start a point

Im only quoting directly from wikipedia.

wretcheddomain

Deleted User wrote: »

It is sickening, 298 people dead.
Everyone knows who is ultimately responsible I.e. Russia. The world will condemn the missile strike and there may even be some limited sanctions against Russia.
No one will step in to end the conflict in Ukraine, no one will be held accountable, there will be no repercussions.
To top it all off, we get to see the bodies being looted, no respect shown for the dead, these people are Neanderthals. Our highly evolved society thinks nothing of tweeting and uploading horrific pictures of the dead all over the web so that friends and relatives can see the grotesque images.
I don't like Israel tactics but I find myself wishing that some country would go in and bomb the f$%k out of the Russian seperatists.

Where the hell did that come from?

CarrickMcJoe

So, just collected my sister from the airport. Her flight delayed, and she overheard some guy behind her remarking, that at least they aren't on a Malaysian plane.
Female asks Why?
Guy mentions about the flight being shot down, to which she replies, Is this the plane that was missing that was downed!!!!

She couldn't help but laugh, even though she is flying Malaysian Air next week.

rockbeast

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Im only quoting directly from wikipedia.

I hope that's a pisstake...

"This claim is allegedly backed by secret reports"

You do realise everything you've typed is ridiculous...I hope you're taking the P

Amirani

Deleted User wrote: »

It is sickening, 298 people dead.
Everyone knows who is ultimately responsible I.e. Russia. The world will condemn the missile strike and there may even be some limited sanctions against Russia.
No one will step in to end the conflict in Ukraine, no one will be held accountable, there will be no repercussions.
To top it all off, we get to see the bodies being looted, no respect shown for the dead, these people are Neanderthals. Our highly evolved society thinks nothing of tweeting and uploading horrific pictures of the dead all over the web so that friends and relatives can see the grotesque images.
I don't like Israel tactics but I find myself wishing that some country would go in and bomb the f$%k out of the Russian seperatists.

That'll just create more desire for secession. Also, how do you rationalise the inevitable civilian deaths?

There's just no straightforward solutions to this.

whitelight

Why are commercial planes flying through confict air space??? Regardless of at what height .and why are passengers not informed of this before they book tickets??? Private companies playing a lottery with lives.confused here??

Amirani

whitelight wrote: »

Why are commercial planes flying through confict air space??? Regardless of at what height .and why are passengers not informed of this before they book tickets??? Private companies playing a lottery with lives.confused here??

It wasn't considered a significant threat. If it was, a no-fly zone would've been put in place of Eastern Ukraine by aviation authorities, mandating re-routing. I think it's a bit unfair and probably ignorant to claim that Malaysian Airlines were "playing a lottery with lives".

bitemeluis

I'm not reading through 46 pages - give it to me straight, who did it?

srsly78

There was a no-fly zone in place below 10km. Only sophisticated long-range systems can reach above this. Was thought to be safe...

loughside

Deleted User wrote: »

It is sickening, 298 people dead.
Everyone knows who is ultimately responsible I.e. Russia. The world will condemn the missile strike and there may even be some limited sanctions against Russia.
No one will step in to end the conflict in Ukraine, no one will be held accountable, there will be no repercussions.
To top it all off, we get to see the bodies being looted, no respect shown for the dead, these people are Neanderthals. Our highly evolved society thinks nothing of tweeting and uploading horrific pictures of the dead all over the web so that friends and relatives can see the grotesque images.
I don't like Israel tactics but I find myself wishing that some country would go in and bomb the f$%k out of the Russian seperatists.

Pretty much nail-on-head there,

and all this could have been averted if the `west` had stepped in months ago with some kind of military aid for a weak Ukrainian army just when these animals first stepped across the border

rockbeast

Deleted User wrote: »

It is sickening, 298 people dead.
Everyone knows who is ultimately responsible I.e. Russia. The world will condemn the missile strike and there may even be some limited sanctions against Russia.
No one will step in to end the conflict in Ukraine, no one will be held accountable, there will be no repercussions.
To top it all off, we get to see the bodies being looted, no respect shown for the dead, these people are Neanderthals. Our highly evolved society thinks nothing of tweeting and uploading horrific pictures of the dead all over the web so that friends and relatives can see the grotesque images.
I don't like Israel tactics but I find myself wishing that some country would go in and bomb the f$%k out of the Russian seperatists.

Look back on history. This is a proxy war. It's a tragedy, yes, but blame won't be assigned to Russia. Unfortunately proxy wars have their place in keeping world peace.

Thoie

whitelight wrote: »

Why are commercial planes flying through confict air space??? Regardless of at what height .and why are passengers not informed of this before they book tickets??? Private companies playing a lottery with lives.confused here??

It's along the shortest route from AMS to KUL (http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=ams-kul)

The airspace wasn't closed to commercial traffic. There seem to have been some vague suggestions to try and avoid it, but no actual direct orders not to fly over.

The Malaysian Transport Minister has defended the flight path the plane was taking, saying it was approved by international aviation authorities.
"15 out of 16 airlines in the Association of Asia Pacific Airlines fly this route over Ukraine; European airlines also use the same route and travel in the same airspace," he said.
"In the hours before the incident, a number of other passenger aircraft from different carriers used the same route," he added.

(from http://www.breakingnews.ie/world/malaysian-minister-defends-route-of-flight-mh17-636726.html)

If the airspace is open, and no-one knew they had the capabilities and stupidity to hit a commercial flight at that height, then it's the quickest, cheapest route to take.

expectationlost

ok so i don't believe putin introduced these huge weapons into ukraine, the rebels are said to knocked over a anti-aircraft base a few days ago, but then ukraine said it had all of its anti-aircraft weapons, they must be lieing, although i do believe it was this igor guy who got his hands on this buk missile launcher aimed for a ukranian military plane and then shot down the wrong thing, crazy idiot

ballsymchugh

just watching russia today reporting on it now. the reporters are stumbling over themselves to blame anyone they can apart from russian separatists.

Rhys Essien

loughside wrote: »

Pretty much nail-on-head there,

and all this could have been averted if the `west` had stepped in months ago with some kind of military aid for a weak Ukrainian army just when these animals first stepped across the border

They didnt come across any border.The rebels are from Eastern Ukraine.

comongethappy

ballsymchugh wrote: »

just watching russia today reporting on it now. the reporters are stumbling over themselves to blame anyone they can apart from russian separatists.

Its as comical as it is tragic..

"Stay tuned.... In the next half hour.
'Stalin - not so bad was he?'..... Only here on RT".

B.A._Baracus

(not sure if this is new news)
But was just watching CNN and they have obtained footage of the BUK being transported on a truck with one missle gone. Reports said it was in transport back to Russia.

Getting it off side.

comongethappy

Rhys Essien wrote: »

They didnt come across any border.The rebels are from Eastern Ukraine.

There was a lot of infiltration from across the border by Russian special forces & GRU.

As well as troops transported in from the completed annexation of Crimea.

The Russian presence on the ground isn't really disputed anymore..... Sure that intercepted phone call from a rebel commander telling of the downed plane was to a GRU commander in Moscow.

whitelight

Diego Simeone wrote: »

It wasn't considered a significant threat. If it was, a no-fly zone would've been put in place of Eastern Ukraine by aviation authorities, mandating re-routing. I think it's a bit unfair and probably ignorant to claim that Malaysian Airlines were "playing a lottery with lives".

If other counties deemed it a large enough threat that their planes took a different route why wouldn't all of
them. Are we breaking this down to cost vs risk vs lives?? I though zero risk would be the aim.would you have knowing flew over a confict area?? I bloody wouldn't have.