Malaysian airline MH-17 discussion thread

Tail Docker

Bob24 wrote: »

I definitely think the type of people who are posing for a picture as the one below (and have obviously been gathering people's belonging, see the right part of the picture) would do something like this, yes.



Very sad and indeed I dare to hope not too many people around here would be doing such thing, but this is the world we live in.

They look to me to be special forces guys. Not your average puppies, going by the weapons they are carrying and their physiques. Folding stock ak74s with bloopers under the barrels, knee-guards and state i-d's around the neck. I doubt they major in empathy anyway. Of the three, one has personal boots, good quality bates gear, one has american issue ACU desert boots and one has personal hiking boots, and no foot, no horse, so most SF guys buy their own boots. None of their rig-outs are rubbish either, so I'd say these are the Kremlin hardy boys.

Highflyer13

Tail Docker wrote: »

They look to me to be special forces guys. Not your average puppies, going by the weapons they are carrying and their physiques. Folding stock ak74s with bloopers under the barrels, knee-guards and state i-d's around the neck. I doubt they major in empathy anyway.

That guy holding the teddy bear was the same guy threatening the observers and telling them to get out of the area.

Bob24

Highflyer13 wrote: »

That guy holding the teddy bear was the same guy threatening the observers and telling them to get out of the area.

Indeed ... picture below:

folbotcar

I said on the other thread how it's interesting the likes of cabbageandtay emerge from the woodwork in situations like this feeling for some reason they have do defend the indefensible. Anyone would think they paid to do it, not that I'm one for conspiracy theories.

Raising silly issues like the survival of luggage and intact bodies either demonstrates their ignorance or they have an agenda of some sort to defend Russia or Putin.

Grandpa Hassan above sums it up succinctly. Putin is no fool, he knows exactly what happened and now it's case of damage limitation. He might decide to jettison his Russian friends in Ukraine now. This whole pointless and tragic adventure has damaged Russia in many way and he knows it. The oligarchs who prop him up in the Kremlin must be getting restless as they watch their share prices and profits slip.

anewme

It would take the hardest of hearts not to break looking at some of those photos.

For me, the ones showing the possessions are the most upsetting.

A child's toy. Children's colouring books, a tube of toothpaste, a backpack, a deck of cards, a tourist guidebook...........

Peoples lives and loves strewn on the roadside.

For what? What price those lives?

RIP

Lingua Franca

anewme wrote: »

It would take the hardest of hearts not to break looking at some of those photos.

For me, the ones showing the possessions are the most upsetting.

A child's toy. Children's colouring books, a tube of toothpaste, a backpack, a deck of cards, a tourist guidebook...........

Peoples lives and loves strewn on the roadside.

For what? What price those lives?

RIP

That pic with the colouring books and playing cards really got to me too. I'm catching a flight with my children tonight and that's the kind of thing we will be bringing onboard to keep us entertained.

Witchie

Lingua Franca wrote: »

That pic with the colouring books and playing cards really got to me too. I'm catching a flight with my children tonight and that's the kind of thing we will be bringing onboard to keep us entertained.

It really brings it home that these were just ordinary people going or coming home from holidays/ work conference etc. Doing what millions do all the time. Wiped out by mistake. Really upsetting.

suicide_circus

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Oh, of course they are because Russian s are bad and Ukrainians are good.

Eh..no. These separatists identify themselves as russian. Simply a statement of fact. What ever inference you want to draw from that is your own affair.

Tail Docker

Lingua Franca wrote: »

That pic with the colouring books and playing cards really got to me too. I'm catching a flight with my children tonight and that's the kind of thing we will be bringing onboard to keep us entertained.

Ah, sure the people to the east of Europe have had centuries of looking at their homes and loved ones scattered to the wind, right up to the present. I think they have much harder constitutions. If those lads at the crash site were playing in Chechnya, I doubt there's much they have not seen. This would be mild by comparison and for once they didn't scatter the stuff themselves.

Tail Docker

Bob24 wrote: »

Indeed ... picture below:

I'd love to see a close up of the credentials around his neck, and what or who they represent, but zoomed they break into pixels and are illegible. No doubt they are of a standard form someone would recognise from seeing before.

Highflyer13

folbotcar wrote: »

I said on the other thread how it's interesting the likes of cabbageandtay emerge from the woodwork in situations like this feeling for some reason they have do defend the indefensible. Anyone would think they paid to do it, not that I'm one for conspiracy theories.

Raising silly issues like the survival of luggage and intact bodies either demonstrates their ignorance or they have an agenda of some sort to defend Russia or Putin.

Grandpa Hassan above sums it up succinctly. Putin is no fool, he knows exactly what happened and now it's case of damage limitation. He might decide to jettison his Russian friends in Ukraine now. This whole pointless and tragic adventure has damaged Russia in many way and he knows it. The oligarchs who prop him up in the Kremlin must be getting restless as they watch their share prices and profits slip.

A post I made on the A&A thread regarding media where some posters are defending the indefensible. Personally I believe the Kremlin PR machine is in overdrive at the moment. Im not a conspiracy theorist person but think its possible that messages could be originating from Russia given the scale of the fcuk up and the global repercussions. Heres what I wrote:

I've heard all major governments nowadays have huge media teams to get their message across via forums, facebook, twitter etc. Many of the pro Russia messages could be originating from these sources including some posts here. We are living in a different age now where peoples thoughts and opinions can be manipulated by coordinated media messages so suit the agenda of governments and big businesses.I know it sounds crazy but thats the age we are living in.

Media isn't what it used to be where a story was a story and there were no hidden agendas. You just have to be smart enough not to suck it up and form your own opinions.

But yes, you're correct in what you say, in this case they are simply defending the indefensible and it was almost certainly brought down by seperatists armed to the teeth by Putin. Thats my opinion.

Highflyer13

folbotcar wrote: »

I said on the other thread how it's interesting the likes of cabbageandtay emerge from the woodwork in situations like this feeling for some reason they have do defend the indefensible. Anyone would think they paid to do it, not that I'm one for conspiracy theories.

Raising silly issues like the survival of luggage and intact bodies either demonstrates their ignorance or they have an agenda of some sort to defend Russia or Putin.

Grandpa Hassan above sums it up succinctly. Putin is no fool, he knows exactly what happened and now it's case of damage limitation. He might decide to jettison his Russian friends in Ukraine now. This whole pointless and tragic adventure has damaged Russia in many way and he knows it. The oligarchs who prop him up in the Kremlin must be getting restless as they watch their share prices and profits slip.

A post I made on the A&A thread regarding media where some posters are defending the indefensible. Personally I believe the Kremlin PR machine is in overdrive at the moment. Im not a conspiracy theorist person but think its possible messages could be originating from Russia given the scale of the fcuk up and the global repercussions:

I've heard all major governments nowadays have huge media teams to get their message across via forums, facebook, twitter etc. Many of the pro Russia messages could be originating from these sources including some posts here. We are living in a different age now where peoples thoughts and opinions can be manipulated by coordinated media messages so suit the agenda of governments and big businesses.I know it sounds crazy but thats the age we are living in.

Media isn't what it used to be where a story was a story and there were no hidden agendas. You just have to be smart enough not to suck it up and form your own opinions.

But yes, you're correct in what you say, in this case they are simply defending the indefensible and it was almost certainly brought down by seperatists armed to the teeth by Putin. Thats my opinion.

Highflyer13

Tail Docker wrote: »

They look to me to be special forces guys. Not your average puppies, going by the weapons they are carrying and their physiques. Folding stock ak74s with bloopers under the barrels, knee-guards and state i-d's around the neck. I doubt they major in empathy anyway.

Thats guy holding the teddy bear was the same guy threatening the observers and telling them to get out of the area.

Bob24

Tail Docker wrote: »

I'd love to see a close up of the credentials around his neck, and what or who they represent, but zoomed they break into pixels and are illegible. No doubt they are of a standard form someone would recognise from seeing before.

It is a bit more clear on this higher res picture, but still can read the text and I don't know what the logo is:



Any idea?

jam_mac_jam

suicide_circus wrote: »

Eh..no. These separatists identify themselves as russian. Simply a statement of fact. What ever inference you want to draw from that is your own affair.

A fact? Oh you know for a fact that those who stole the belongings are separatists and call themselves Russian? There is some evidence for any of these rumors? Oh sorry I thought it was all just a bit convenient.

suicide_circus

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

A fact? Oh you know for a fact that those who stole the belongings are separatists and call themselves Russian? There is some evidence for any of these rumors? Oh sorry I thought it was all just a bit convenient.

Well the crash site is in control of ethnic russian separatists...

jam_mac_jam

suicide_circus wrote: »

Well the crash site is in control of ethnic russian separatists...

so no then, no facts...just twitter rumors..

loughside

Bob24 wrote: »

It is a bit more clear on this higher res picture, but still can read the text and I don't know what the logo is:



Any idea?

Pretty sure its one of the emblems from their `Lugansk Peoples Republic` , there`s another almost identical to the old american confederate flag,

these are not locals, goons shipped in by the kremlin and paid enormous amounts of money to destroy eastern Ukraine

Tail Docker

loughside wrote: »

Pretty sure its one of the emblems from their `Lugansk Peoples Republic` , there`s another almost identical to the old american confederate flag,

these are not locals, goons shipped in by the kremlin and paid enormous amounts of money to destroy eastern Ukraine

I don't think so - they use a trident like the Ukrainian emblem. The player to his left has a patch on his right chest pocket - it is in black of a figure over a smaller figure. That one looks more close to home and personal for them, find which that one is and these lads origins ought to be clearer. Also I doubt the orange and black pennant on his shoulder is there for decoration, probably denotes rank or group id.

suicide_circus

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

so no then, no facts...just twitter rumors..

I said it was a fact that they are russian, not a fact that they are looting. Back on topic please

Grandpa Hassan

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Even though you cannot apportion blame to Malaysia Airlines, there will be a certain reluctance among many people to fly with them again. I think that the airline will have to undergo some sort of transformation to remain as a viable airline - even simple things such as changing the name.

In addition, pretty much everyone now knows what a Malaysia Airlines plane looks like; and hence it'll be associated with death and disaster, so they should really change that too. It's unlucky that the airline had to suffer two freak accidents in 5 months but to prosper like before they'll have to make these small alterations. Through a new identity, it'll help battle perceptions.

According to the uk times this morning, agents across SE Asia are inundated with people wanting to change airline. Everyone knows it's not Malaysian airline's fault. But many in that part of the world are superstitious, and it is now unlucky airline. I would not be surprised to see is disappear and the national carrier be renamed and recoloured as part of a restructure if the company

loughside

Tail Docker wrote: »

I don't think so - they use a trident like the Ukrainian emblem. The player to his left has a patch on his right chest pocket - it is in black of a figure over a smaller figure. That one looks more close to home and personal for them, find which that one is and these lads origins ought to be clearer. Also I doubt the orange and black pennant on his shoulder is there for decoration, probably denotes rank or group id.

No, thats the St. George ribbon which supposedly symbolises Russian military valour, ,... yeah right,

Tail Docker

They look like slovenians to me...

comongethappy

Tail Docker wrote: »

They look like slovenians to me...

Distinctive them Slovenians!

Tail Docker

comongethappy wrote: »

Distinctive them Slovenians!

Distinctive emblems anyway and it was just a informed guess. What's yours or do you have no opinion?

Highflyer13

Bob24 wrote: »

It is a bit more clear on this higher res picture, but still can read the text and I don't know what the logo is:



Any idea?

Flag of the seperatist proclaimed 'Donetsk People's Republic'. I cant make ot the writing though although that guy has stated that he is a commander in control of that area.

Tail Docker

Highflyer13 wrote: »

Flag of the seperatist proclaimed 'Donetsk People's Republic'. I cant make ot the writing though although that guy has stated that he is a commander in control of that area.

It isn't. They use an eagle standard. I have really, really looked, fecked if I can find what emblem it is.

Galwayguy35

cabbageandtay wrote: »

Do you actually believe that? Does SKY News report people looting and robbing people on the streets of London everyday?

Why would people dig through a crash site and steal a credit card? Are the people on the ground a bunch of monkeys?

If a plane crashed near you would you go and start stripping corpses of watches and loafers and earrings (assuming that the bodies still had hands, feet and ears) ?

How starving do you think Ukrainians are?

The credit cards have been used, as for the rest of your post:rolleyes:

loughside

Tail Docker wrote: »

It isn't. They use an eagle standard. I have really, really looked, fecked if I can find what emblem it is.

I think it is Tail docker, just a slight variation, the black blue and red stripes

see these https://www.google.com/search?q=Donetsk+People%27s+Republic+emblem&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=0WrKU6fhLoOM7Ab7qIGYDA&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1018&bih=684

Tail Docker

loughside wrote: »

I think it is Tail docker, just a slight variation, the black blue and red stripes

see these https://www.google.com/search?q=Donetsk+People%27s+Republic+emblem&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=0WrKU6fhLoOM7Ab7qIGYDA&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1018&bih=684

The one on his credentials is crossed swords behind a shield with a trefoil dagger detail on it. Regardless, that's a fairly issuable laminated pass and could be printed with anything to suit.

The Guy on the left with the handler and dog(?) in black on a crest looks like he's a numpty who kept on regimental insignia despite being told to strip all insignia, like the others have done. If his home regiment could be picked up on from that, his origins would be very clear. He is the slightly undeniable deniable, probably due to too much vodka/Regimental pride..They are probably a clean-up/containment group who firefight whatever needs doing right now. Bigger doggies usually arrive a little later if the sh1t really got real.