Malaysian airline MH-17 discussion thread

Galwayguy35

Egginacup wrote: »

I agree, but is that relevant?
The outrage and calls for punishment against Russia don't seem to be coming from the governments of those on board nor even from the country whose plane this was.

It was shot down over a part of the world that nobody who is speaking loudest has any jurisdiction over.

I just find it odd that so many people outside of the Russians, Ukrainians and Malaysians are so vocal.

Should this not either cause tension or worse still war between Russia and Malaysia? Why are the rest of us so incensed?

You must have missed the speeches given by the Dutch and Australian PM's.

Egginacup

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

You must have missed the speeches given by the Dutch and Australian PM's.

I did, actually. Sorry.

In my opinion I just think people should cool down and wait instead of calling for war. Cool heads and all that.

comongethappy

Egginacup wrote: »

In my opinion I just think people should cool down and wait instead of calling for war. Cool heads and all that.

I don't think any politician has called for war?

Bob24

A pilot's opinion about how responsible (not not) Malaysia Airlines is: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/19/opinion/malaysia-airlines-flight-17-the-ukraine-wars-victim.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=c-column-top-span-region&region=c-column-top-span-region&WT.nav=c-column-top-span-region&_r=0

Bob24

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/mh17-pro-russia-rebels-crash-site-kiev-ceasefire

"We declare that we will guarantee the safety of international experts on the scene as soon as Kiev concludes a ceasefire agreement," said Andrei Purgin, deputy premier of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic in a statement. He urged Kiev to "immediately conclude such an agreement" with the rebels.

Not sure denying investigations about a plane crash most of the world is mourning about and implicitly threatening the safety of international investigators is going to do much good for their cause ...

aloyisious

Bob24 wrote: »

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/mh17-pro-russia-rebels-crash-site-kiev-ceasefire



Not sure denying investigations about a crash most of the world is mourning about and implicitly threatening the safety of international investigators is going to do much good for their cause ...

Ditto with the quite simply brutal act of denying the return of the dead to their families at the very least, by deliberately impeding the efforts of the investigators.

Grandpa Hassan

He's just a thug with a gun on a power trip. I think he cares less about the cause than he does about having a fight. I bet he'd love it if western troops went in. Would give him more publicity

Larbre34

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

He's just a thug with a gun on a power trip. I think he cares less about the cause than he does about having a fight. I bet he'd love it if western troops went in. Would give him more publicity

It would but that shouldnt preclude it.

Ukraine should invite in a NATO group of paras and special forces to secure that crash site with gunships for close protection and Harriers and F-16s available from Govt territory if needed.

The Russians know well, and probably did within about five minutes, that it was one of their missile systems manned by eejits that did the deed. Ukraine and NATO need to be saying 'we're coming to clean up your mess, what the eff are you gonna do about it?'

Wibbs

Larbre34 wrote: »

The Russians know well, and probably did within about five minutes, that it was one of their missile systems manned by eejits that did the deed. Ukraine and NATO need to be saying 'we're coming to clean up your mess, what the eff are you gonna do about it?'

It would be incredibly stupid to do something like this. The Russians would go full godzilla on the Ukrainians and NATO and the conflict could get out of hand real fast. The same eejits with Russian missile systems could let loose a nuke and then the excrement would hit the mechanical air moving machine.

KELTICKNIGHTT

Egginacup wrote: »

I agree, but is that relevant?
The outrage and calls for punishment against Russia don't seem to be coming from the governments of those on board nor even from the country whose plane this was.

It was shot down over a part of the world that nobody who is speaking loudest has any jurisdiction over.

I just find it odd that so many people outside of the Russians, Ukrainians and Malaysians are so vocal.

Should this not either cause tension or worse still war between Russia and Malaysia? Why are the rest of us so incensed?

Russia supported the pro Russians. Russia deserves more ..Russia provided weapons. Putin seems not to deal with reality.i know Ukrainians here who say what Russia is doing is no surprise them.
You seem to forget the people on the plane are Europeans from different countries and the Terrorists who shot down the plane from pro Russian controlled area should be punished but might never happen.

All these so called pro Russian want to be part of Russia so much.then they should feck off to Russia and leave Ukrainiane.

I hope the Ukrainians gives these pro Russians the surprise they promised these terrorist's

KELTICKNIGHTT

Egginacup wrote: »

I did, actually. Sorry.

In my opinion I just think people should cool down and wait instead of calling for war. Cool heads and all that.

Who's calling for war ?
Europeans in a plane were shot down.the plane was clearly marked. Plus the system to lance the missile would have to have special training .All points to Russia.
These pro Russians thugs are terrorist's .Should be driven into the sea back to Russia.
Be nice to see Ukrainians get support here but at same time Ukrainians need to do it themselves.

It's disgraceful the way these thugs handled the bodies
They took items from crash site to hide they did it.wait and see

comongethappy

Bodies are being loaded onto a train in a nearby village..destination: unknown

https://twitter.com/shaunwalker7/status/490790334897881088

KELTICKNIGHTT

Feel sorry for the family's. All they see is tv images and contact through officials

elfy4eva

Just saw some footage on Sky of the Rebels moving a what is likely a black box to their tents in the fields surrounding the crash. Devastating to have such little co-operation and such blatant evidence grabbing.

comongethappy

elfy4eva wrote: »

Just saw some footage on Sky of the Rebels moving a what is likely a black box to their tents in the fields surrounding the crash. Devastating to have such little transparency and yet such blatant evidence grabbing.

Seen that.... Seemed like a recorder with its bright orange colouring.

Though it may end up in the right hands... Who know (doubt it though).

elfy4eva

comongethappy wrote: »

Seen that.... Seemed like a recorder with its bright orange colouring.

Though it may end up in the right hands... Who know (doubt it though).

I hope so, if it does disappear it's more damning for the rebels anyway.

swiftblade

elfy4eva wrote: »

I hope so, if it does disappear it's more damning for the rebels anyway.

I'd be very surprised if it disappeared. There's nothing on it to give them a reason to make it disappear.

ZeroThreat

swiftblade wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if it disappeared. There's nothing on it to give them a reason to make it disappear.

Imagine if there had been some survivors, would not surprise me if Russians also made those 'disappear'...

swiftblade

ZeroThreat wrote: »

Imagine if there had been some survivors, would not surprise me if Russians also made those 'disappear'...

Again, same thing applies. What would a survivor be able to reveal in terms of evidence?

I think the biggest insult to these victims is just the continued talks of "more sanctions" for Russia. A harder line needs to be taken, but I doubt anyone will take it.

JONJO THE MISER

Something needs to be done fast, the bodies need to be brought back to there families for burial but yet these russian backed scum have no intention of doing so, there pure animals.

ZeroThreat

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Something needs to be done fast, the bodies need to be brought back to there families for burial but yet these russian backed scum have no intention of doing so, there pure animals.

It's become quite apparent that the Russians and their lackeys are at least several levels below the rest of the human race on the evolutionary ladder...

comongethappy

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

Something needs to be done fast, the bodies need to be brought back to there families for burial but yet these russian backed scum have no intention of doing so, there pure animals.

Indeed, scum is the right word.

These unfortunate bodies have been rotting in the summer sun for 4 days now.

Skylinehead

swiftblade wrote: »

I think the biggest insult to these victims is just the continued talks of "more sanctions" for Russia. A harder line needs to be taken, but I doubt anyone will take it.

Ok then international expert, what would you do? Invade Russia?

Meglamonia

Skylinehead wrote: »

Ok then international expert, what would you do? Invade Russia?

Just not let the Russians do what they want here it's disgusting what's happening and in fact surreal in this day and age what's happening to the crash site.

elfy4eva

swiftblade wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if it disappeared. There's nothing on it to give them a reason to make it disappear.

While I hope you're right, I could definitely see it disappearing as I don't understand why else a militia would put any time into collecting a recorder when there's so many bigger priorities. (The alternative is that they're gathering the evidence for a transparent investigation, which just seems absurd when they're being so unaccommodating toward one.)

swiftblade

Skylinehead wrote: »

Ok then international expert, what would you do? Invade Russia?

Where did I say that? No, of course not. There is no easy solution. All that I'm saying is, punishing them by economic means isn't any sort of deterrent.

swiftblade

elfy4eva wrote: »

While I hope you're right, I could definitely see it disappearing as I don't understand why else a militia would put any time into collecting a recorder when there's so many bigger priorities. (The alternative is that they're gathering the evidence for a transparent investigation, which just seems absurd when they're being so unaccommodating toward one.)

Maybe I missed something, but the video clip I saw, it looked to be one of the emergency personnel that was carrying the box. Not saying he didn't just hand it over to someone else though, but I didn't see it.

Skylinehead

swiftblade wrote: »

Where did I say that? No, of course not. There is no easy solution. All that I'm saying is, punishing them by economic means isn't any sort of deterrent.

No, probably not. But you said that "a harder line needs to be taken", but short of invading Eastern Ukraine, what could they do?

suicide_circus

swiftblade wrote: »

Where did I say that? No, of course not. There is no easy solution. All that I'm saying is, punishing them by economic means isn't any sort of deterrent.

Actually its the only deterrent

swiftblade

suicide_circus wrote: »

Actually its the only deterrent

If it was done right, I'm sure it would be. If there was a way to have an agreement with private companies to stop selling luxury goods to Russia, I can guarantee that would work, but it'll never happen.