Malaysian airline MH-17 discussion thread

KELTICKNIGHTT

swiftblade wrote: »

The irony of him saying it's "The Ukraine's problem" is mad!

Putin been playing those lines for long time.
If the pro Russians had nothing to hide.they let the investigators in to do there job
Looking at sky and showing the pro Russians saying that Moscow what black box...maybe to remove info or tamber with info.

Galwayguy35

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

The pictures of the equipment that apparently took down this plane is too convenient . I believe Russia shot down the plane from within Russia. I believe US UK & Germany so on know this.
Blaming the Russian militants saves face for US UK & Germany and Russia, because for everyone to know the truth would put huge pressure on US UK and Germany to act, with this story they avoid acting, as they can't take on Russia. Russia will also hide black boxes, as I'm sure the plane was giving warnings which would be on the black box via recordings.
Takes up to 5 coordinated vehicles to bring down a plane that high up,no horse shagging carrot crunching militant done that.

The US could take out Russia on it's own if it wanted to, but nobody wants to go down that road.

How do you know it was fired from inside Russia?

I haven't heard anyone say that, I understood it was probably Russian personnel who either fired it or trained the rebels to do it, but that the launcher was inside Ukraine at the time.

swiftblade

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

Putin been playing those lines for long time.
If the pro Russians had nothing to hide.they let the investigators in to do there job
Looking at sky and showing the pro Russians saying that Moscow what black box...maybe to remove info or tamber with info.

Not sure what would be the point. People would know they tampered with it and like I said, there's really nothing on it. Nothing that will tell us anything new.

KELTICKNIGHTT

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

One would imagine if Europe hit Russia with sanctions they would feel it, I knowthe US has already done so but I don't know is there really much trade between the two countries.

Germany is reluctant so far though because they depend on Russia for oil, and I can see their point of view.

Even here in Ireland they buy quite a lot of Irish beef that we export.

That's only thing keeping bigger sanctions against Russia but think Europe will have to get smarter and tougher somehow

KELTICKNIGHTT

swiftblade wrote: »

Not sure what would be the point. People would know they tampered with it and like I said, there's really nothing on it. Nothing that will tell us anything new.

I think they clever at spying etc.im sure they do something.otherwise why did Moscow want pro Russians give them black box

KELTICKNIGHTT

Sad part is family's still can't get info on there loved ones. No respect by these pro Russians .
Saw a Holland family begging Putin to give them there kids bodies

swiftblade

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

I think they clever at spying etc.im sure they do something.otherwise why did Moscow want pro Russians give them black box

I don't think they do want it. That would just be implicating themselves. I think everyone is perhaps over thinking this a bit.

For the past weeks, the separatists have been shooting down government planes. Now, they see a plane flying at a higher altitude. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that they thought, "Hey, look at them flying so high, trying to avoid us!"

The simplest reason is often the correct one.

KELTICKNIGHTT

swiftblade wrote: »

I don't think they do want it. That would just be implicating themselves. I think everyone is perhaps over thinking this a bit.

For the past weeks, the separatists have been shooting down government planes. Now, they see a plane flying at a higher altitude. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that they thought, "Hey, look at them flying so high, trying to avoid us!"

The simplest reason is often the correct one.

So far Russia cant be trusted .look at their first invasion of Ukraine and Russia saying they didn't have troops there
Why have black box sent to Moscow ?

swiftblade

Also, to add, the other planes that were shot down, were shot down with smaller, usually handheld SAM systems. It's also possible that they wanted to show what they could do with their new toy. I still don't believe they deliberately targeted a civi airliner.

swiftblade

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

So far Russia cant be trusted .look at their first invasion of Ukraine and Russia saying they didn't have troops there
Why have black box sent to Moscow ?

Maybe I'm missing something. Was it actually confirmed that the box was on it's way to Moscow?

KELTICKNIGHTT

swiftblade wrote: »

Also, to add, the other planes that were shot down, were shot down with smaller, usually handheld SAM systems. It's also possible that they wanted to show what they could do with their new toy. I still don't believe they deliberately targeted a civi airliner.

These systems I'd there targets .so they would have know plus the plane it's markings .
Looks like they didn't care and shot down the plane

porsche959

From Twitter:

David Cameron @David_Cameron · 7m I've just spoken to President Putin. I made clear he must ensure access to the crash site so the victims can have proper funerals.

Everything sorted so, great.

wretcheddomain

swiftblade wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something. Was it actually confirmed that the box was on it's way to Moscow?

Were they not already handed over?

swiftblade

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

These systems I'd there targets .so they would have know plus the plane it's markings .
Looks like they didn't care and shot down the plane

At 33,000 feet, markings or type of plane wouldn't be obviously apparent. Also, weather conditions would play a part (cloud cover)

I'm sure it is possible to fire the system without IDing the target though. I don't like Russia's involvement in this either, nor how the separatists are behaving, but to say they shot down the plane knowingly, why? What would they gain by doing it?

As is apparent, they've probably lost any sympathy for their cause now. Maybe even from Moscow.

swiftblade

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Were they not already handed over?

I have no clue. It's the Mail though... :rolleyes:

KELTICKNIGHTT

swiftblade wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing something. Was it actually confirmed that the box was on it's way to Moscow?

Sky showed a chat between 2 pro Russian. One in there base and another at crash site .They guy in charge told the guy at crash site to find the black box as Moscow wanted it.

KELTICKNIGHTT

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Were they not already handed over?

Seems the train carrying the bodies ran out of fuel so can't move and keep bodies cool and investigators are still waiting for black box

Meglamonia

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

Seems the train carrying the bodies ran out of fuel so can't move and keep bodies cool and investigators are still waiting for black box

Ran out of fuel?What a farce.

KELTICKNIGHTT

swiftblade wrote: »

At 33,000 feet, markings or type of plane wouldn't be obviously apparent. Also, weather conditions would play a part (cloud cover)

I'm sure it is possible to fire the system without IDing the target though. I don't like Russia's involvement in this either, nor how the separatists are behaving, but to say they shot down the plane knowingly, why? What would they gain by doing it?

As is apparent, they've probably lost any sympathy for their cause now. Maybe even from Moscow.

Sky yesterday and I think BBC was saying not all pro Russians on same wave lengths.
Family's still no information
Russia look more guilty by the hour ..or has Russia lost control ?

darkpagandeath

Don't you mean deliberately, Looks like they are trying to decompose the bodies so much as to be useless to any investigation.

Sorry if it sounds grizzly and or disrespectful.

KELTICKNIGHTT

Meglamonia wrote: »

Ran out of fuel?What a farce.

Just saw it on sky but yet they won't hand over to the investigators who are at train.the investigators could move the bodies them self's
I feel sorry for the family's of loved ones who died.this crap must be driving them mad

BorneTobyWilde

swiftblade wrote: »

Huh?

1)A passenger airliner would give no indication that a missile had a radar lock on it. There would be nothing on the black box, except for the exact time of impact.

2)Why would Russia shoot down a commercial airliner? With a Buk system, you can identify the type of aircraft you are targeting. A trained professional would know what they were targeting before they shot.

3) It would only take one vehicle. Not sure where you got 5. Any missle that was shot that long range would probably be picked up by NORAD or something. Russia just wouldn't do it.

Launcher needs a radar station to feed the info to the launcher. Do the militants have a radar station, I dunno. Russia does, it gave the info, Russian militant simply drove the launcher.

KELTICKNIGHTT

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Don't you mean deliberately, Looks like they are trying to decompose the bodies so much as to be useless to any investigation.

Sorry if it sounds grizzly and or disrespectful.

They could easy let peacekeepers take the bodies.i have lost respect for Russians

KELTICKNIGHTT

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Launcher needs a radar station to feed the info to the launcher. Do the militants have a radar station, I dunno. Russia does, it gave the info, Russian militant simply drove the launcher.

Everyone knows Russia involved.will the world know the full truth as Russia is good at hiding things

KELTICKNIGHTT

Special report on sky news now about it

Da Shins Kelly

swiftblade wrote: »

Also, to add, the other planes that were shot down, were shot down with smaller, usually handheld SAM systems. It's also possible that they wanted to show what they could do with their new toy. I still don't believe they deliberately targeted a civi airliner.

Do people actually believe that it was deliberately targeted? Seems like a fairly obvious case of a tragic mix up to me. I don't think either Russia or the separatists would intentionally invite this kind of scrutiny. Doesn't do their cause any favours.

Hasn't the airspace above that area been volatile for a while now? They've been shooting down planes there before. Wonder why the airline was flying over what is essentially a war zone.

KELTICKNIGHTT

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Do people actually believe that it was deliberately targeted? Seems like a fairly obvious case of a tragic mix up to me. I don't think either Russia or the separatists would intentionally invite this kind of scrutiny. Doesn't do their cause any favours.

Hasn't the airspace above that area been volatile for a while now? They've been shooting down planes there before. Wonder why the airline was flying over what is essentially a war zone.

Think most are not happy with pro Russians not allowing investigators to site and more importantly for family's to know when they can have there loved ones
The way the pro Russians are acting makes them look more guilty and Moscow no comment

expectationlost

outrage mongerers and tabloid news making it worse for family of the dead with these bogus horror stories the bodies are being stored as best they can https://twitter.com/shaunwalker7/status/490783545896341504

comongethappy

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Hasn't the airspace above that area been volatile for a while now? They've been shooting down planes there before. Wonder why the airline was flying over what is essentially a war zone.

There have been planes flying over the area since day-1 of Russia's invasion.

Singapore & Indian airlines had aircraft nearby when MH17 got hit.

swiftblade

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Launcher needs a radar station to feed the info to the launcher. Do the militants have a radar station, I dunno. Russia does, it gave the info, Russian militant simply drove the launcher.

The Buk has it's own short range radar (The dome on the front)