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Malaysian airline MH-17 discussion thread

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    #1052
    roryc
    Registered Users Posts: 9,600 ✭✭✭roryc


    Dont feed the troll.


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    #1053
    wendell borton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,336 ✭✭✭wendell borton


    The thread title really needs changing, when I see it I think what another (3rd) one!


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    #1054
    KELTICKNIGHTT
    Registered Users Posts: 3,799 ✭✭✭KELTICKNIGHTT


    British pm seems not getting the support for Europe so far
    I guess no surprise


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    #1055
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    Russian shills seem to have infected every Irish site with Russian propaganda. I hope they are well paid.


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    #1056
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    That radar on planes is not used normally, only used for take off and landing highly doubtful it would pickup such a small fast moving object like a missile. Commercial planes do not have the capability to detect a radar lock on.

    Your right.... Their radar can't see the missile or detect it's radar lock..... Its only Israeli airlines that do (and airforce1)


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    #1057
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    Russian shills seem to have infected every Irish site with Russian propaganda. I hope they are well paid.

    They aren't at all.

    There is though the usual suspects over on CT shoes hatred for the west is so strong, they are willfully blind to all else.

    One of the hardest jobs in media at the moment is a Guardian comment moderator.
    The real Kremlinbots (yes, they do exist) have made that place ground zero.


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    #1058
    mickmackey1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,288 ✭✭✭mickmackey1


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Why would the Ukrainian Air force shoot down a passenger plane. It would be hard enough to get pilots to do that in a 9/11 scenario. Tinfoil hat brigade coming out in force it seems.

    After your nonsensical 'ballistic shield' post yesterday, thought you'd stay quiet for a good few years.


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    #1059
    smurfjed
    Registered Users Posts: 10,167 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    That radar on planes is not used normally, only used for take off and landing highly doubtful it would pickup such a small fast moving object like a missile. Commercial planes do not have the capability to detect a radar lock on.
    Few corrections here if you don't mind.... Radars are turned on the whole time as they are used to monitor enroute weather activity. They are not designed to pick up anything other than weather. If they did have the capability of detecting a radar lock on, (which most don't), what would you expect them to do?
    As far as I was aware the plane would have had radar which might have picked up the missle before it exploded. And even if it didmn't it might still have evidence in the black box which would point towards who did it.
    Nothing about that statement is true.


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    #1060
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    mickmackey1 wrote: »
    After your nonsensical 'ballistic shield' post yesterday, thought you'd stay quiet for a good few years.

    Why do you work in the military and know exactly what capabilities their anti rocket/missile systems have ? Intercontinental ballistic missiles go into orbit can be tracked and counter measures used. not saying everyone would get taken down but were not in a MAD situation anymore. I would wager you have more to fear from a dirty bomb being used. Than Russia or North Korea launching nukes. And i think you were looking for the word Star wars when referring to the 1980s laser based satellites or some other nonsense.


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    #1061
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    smurfjed wrote: »
    Few corrections here if you don't mind.... Radars are turned on the whole time as they are used to monitor enroute weather activity. They are not designed to pick up anything other than weather. If they did have the capability of detecting a radar lock on, (which most don't), what would you expect them to do?

    Nothing about that statement is true.

    TCAS and weather radar systems would be the normal ones turned on yes. And i don't expect them to do anything was answering a question.


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    #1062
    Aidric
    Registered Users Posts: 13,591 ✭✭✭✭Aidric


    What is the latest with the flight recorders? I was watching CNN on Thursday night where Richard Quest carried an interview with the Ukrainian finance minister. In that interview he stated, upon correspondence he had with the Ukrainian foreign minister, that the recorders were on Ukrainian territory.


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    #1063
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Aidric wrote: »
    What is the latest with the flight recorders? I was watching CNN on Thursday night where Richard Quest carried an interview with the Ukrainian finance minister. In that interview he stated, upon correspondence he had with the Ukrainian foreign minister, that the recorders were on Ukrainian territory.

    Rescue worker was seen holding one taking it to a tent, Now we have separatist leader saying he has alleged devices and awaiting to hand them over to neutral observers.


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    #1064
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    BBC Journo clarifying that the rebels have had the recorder the past few days and it wasn't uncovered today, as indicated by themselves and others.


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    #1065
    Aidric
    Registered Users Posts: 13,591 ✭✭✭✭Aidric


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Rescue worker was seen holding one taking it to a tent, Now we have separatist leader saying he has alleged devices and awaiting to hand them over to neutral observers.

    Handing them over in tact? There was a good discussion on Marian Finucane this morning with the president of the pilots association who stated that while the recorders are crash proof they are not tamper proof, so if an aviation technician got hold of them they could be compromised.


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    #1066
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Aidric wrote: »
    Handing them over in tact? There was a good discussion on Marian Finucane this morning with the president of the pilots association who stated that while the recorders are crash proof they are not tamper proof, so if an aviation technician got hold of them they could be compromised.

    Yup modern flight data recorders store the date on chips similar to the RAM in your pc Obviously there on printed circuit boards and not slots like your RAM. Anyone with the know how to remove these and access them could easily compromise any data or even change it. I don't think they would get away with just smashing them up or burning them. As the containers are tested and designed to protect the chips as much as possible from this.


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    #1067
    JONJO THE MISER
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 12,333 ✭✭✭✭JONJO THE MISER


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    Russian shills seem to have infected every Irish site with Russian propaganda. I hope they are well paid.

    I would not even give them the satisfaction of replying.
    The world and the mother knows all they need to about these people.


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    #1068
    whirlpool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,574 ✭✭✭whirlpool


    Any chance of getting the thread title changed? Every time I see it I have a mini heart-attack for a split second, thinking there has been "another" one.


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    #1069
    fryup
    Registered Users Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    as tragic as this is whole affair is...

    it must be said once the dust settles.....

    What the hell were Mayalsian Airlines doing flying over a war-zone?? surely they must have been pre-warned??


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    #1070
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    fryup wrote: »
    as tragic as this is whole affair is...

    it must be said when the dust settles.....

    What the hell were Mayalsian Airlines doing flying over a war-zone?? surely they must have been pre-warned??

    AFAIK 15 out of 16 major airlines fly over said route

    main question should be...how did Russia believe it could get away with helping to shoot down a passenger plane??
    how could they not tell the difference as id imagine a plane carrying 300 odd people would be much bigger than a military bomber plane??


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    #1071
    Aidric
    Registered Users Posts: 13,591 ✭✭✭✭Aidric


    fryup wrote: »
    as tragic as this is whole affair is...

    it must be said once the dust settles.....

    What the hell were Mayalsian Airlines doing flying over a war-zone?? surely they must have been pre-warned??

    The airspace wasn't closed and it is the most economical route for airlines to fly. BA & Emirates flew the same airspace in close proximity to MH17.

    According to experts nobody knew that the rebels held such advanced weaponry.


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    #1072
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Yup modern flight data recorders store the date on chips similar to the RAM in your pc Obviously there on printed circuit boards and not slots like your RAM. Anyone with the know how to remove these and access them could easily compromise any data or even change it. I don't think they would get away with just smashing them up or burning them. As the containers are tested and designed to protect the chips as much as possible from this.

    these ought to be fairly robust and sophisticated devices. Breaking the seal on a crappy hard drive will void the warranty and that's only a piece of plastic. Poor analogy, I know but if you know a lot about these recorders and how they could be tampered with, or altered without it being detectable that they were tampered with could you explain? Screwing around with inode attributes in a unix/linux system is doable to fake a file's contents but you still know it's been hacked.


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    #1073
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Aidric wrote: »
    The airspace wasn't closed and it is the most economical route for airlines to fly. BA & Emirates flew the same airspace in close proximity to MH17.

    According to experts nobody knew that the rebels held such advanced weaponry.

    Ahem I'm sure one side knew


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    #1074
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Egginacup wrote: »
    these ought to be fairly robust and sophisticated devices. Breaking the seal on a crappy hard drive will void the warranty and that's only a piece of plastic. Poor analogy, I know but if you know a lot about these recorders and how they could be tampered with, or altered without it being detectable that they were tampered with could you explain? Screwing around with inode attributes in a unix/linux system is doable to fake a file's contents but you still know it's been hacked.

    True just depends on who it gets to, I'm sure the relevant intelligence agency's have their ways.


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    #1075
    Aidric
    Registered Users Posts: 13,591 ✭✭✭✭Aidric


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Ahem I'm sure one side knew

    Sure but did the airlines have that intelligence? Also there is no way Russia would have authorised this.


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    #1076
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Aidric wrote: »
    Sure but did the airlines have that intelligence? Also there is no way Russia would have authorised this.

    Well you maybe right on that one but, Training people who are not picky in their actions expect bad things to happen. Trigger happy guys in that system looking to prove a point and give Ukraine a bloody nose.


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    #1077
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    fryup wrote: »
    as tragic as this is whole affair is...

    it must be said once the dust settles.....

    What the hell were Mayalsian Airlines doing flying over a war-zone?? surely they must have been pre-warned??

    They were actually diverted by Kiev air traffic control into hostile airspace. Kiev are refusing to release the ATC-to-plane communication.


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    #1078
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    AFAIK 15 out of 16 major airlines fly over said route

    main question should be...how did Russia believe it could get away with helping to shoot down a passenger plane??
    how could they not tell the difference as id imagine a plane carrying 300 odd people would be much bigger than a military bomber plane??

    I haven't seen any evidence that Russia assisted anyone in shooting down this plane.


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    #1079
    dav3
    Registered Users Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭dav3


    fryup wrote: »
    as tragic as this is whole affair is...

    it must be said once the dust settles.....

    What the hell were Mayalsian Airlines doing flying over a war-zone?? surely they must have been pre-warned??

    They were warned, unfortunately their risk assessment department deemed it worth the risk for the financial gain. Lufthansa was another airline that decided to take that risk, while the likes of British Airways, Air France and most other major airlines decided it was not worth the risk and diverted around the area.

    The question is, was Malaysia Airlines warned that pro-russian rebels had gained control of a surface-to-air missile system on 29th June?


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    #1080
    Aidric
    Registered Users Posts: 13,591 ✭✭✭✭Aidric


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Well you maybe right on that one but, Training people who are not picky in their actions expect bad things to happen. Trigger happy guys in that system looking to prove a point and give Ukraine a bloody nose.

    Well that's a large part of the problem. The separatists aren't even aligned under one grouping, there are many factions. For an autocrat like Putin this is a significant oversight and it looks like a lone wolf has reaped the most catastrophic of circumstances.


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    #1081
    DamagedTrax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭DamagedTrax


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Why would the Ukrainian Air force shoot down a passenger plane. It would be hard enough to get pilots to do that in a 9/11 scenario. Tinfoil hat brigade coming out in force it seems.

    IMO every possibility needs to be explored until some truth comes out. We live in a world run by meglomaniancs and sociopaths, downing a passenger plane for their own needs is not outside the realms of possibility so i wouldnt rule anything out until we hear otherwise.

    i really hope it was a balls up on the Russian side, as the alternatives will lead this world into a very bad place.


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