Malaysian airline MH-17 discussion thread

loughside

any of our resident apologists for kremlin terrorism care to comment on why the remains of the aircraft had to be cut into pieces by a power saw ??

*waits*


#OSCE say wreckage has been cut into with power saw.

Saadyst

loughside wrote: »

any of our resident apologists for kremlin terrorism care to comment on why the remains of the aircraft had to be cut into pieces by a power saw ??

*waits*


#OSCE say wreckage has been cut into with power saw.

*apologist mode*

Who said it was the rebels that cut into it? Might it be to find any survivors or dead bodies? It could have been the Ukrainian forces. We'll need a full, complete, independent and impartial investigation into who cut into the aircraft and why before being able to decide what to do next.

Ash.J.Williams

loughside wrote: »

any of our resident apologists for kremlin terrorism care to comment on why the remains of the aircraft had to be cut into pieces by a power saw ??

*waits*


#OSCE say wreckage has been cut into with power saw.

i'm on neither side, but you know nothing about what's happening on the ground.

Red Nissan

Can we put the actual plane number in the thread title MH-17 so we won't be panicky thinking it's yet another ~ time has passed enough from that event.

loughside

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

i'm on neither side, but you know nothing about what's happening on the ground.

You know, I know, the dog on the street knows, so don`t try and be cute.

So what you`re saying now is that the OSCE are liars ???

Ash.J.Williams

loughside wrote: »

You know, I know, the dog on the street knows, so don`t try and be cute.

So what you`re saying now is that the OSCE are liars ???

i actually have no idea, like you.

Piliger

Tony EH wrote: »

Are you really trying to say that Putin specifically ordered them to shoot down a civilian airliner?

It is blatantly obvious that he pays their wages, trained them to shoot planes down inside a foreign country, told them to shoot anything down they liked, armed them with ground to air missiles and is not unhappy with the result. He is getting exactly what he wants. if they had done anything that he disapproved of there is one thing that is certain and that is that Putin would have had them shot or sent to a gulag, which still exist.

Piliger

loughside wrote: »

any of our resident apologists for kremlin terrorism care to comment on why the remains of the aircraft had to be cut into pieces by a power saw ??

*waits*


#OSCE say wreckage has been cut into with power saw.

Looting. Pure and simple.

Piliger

Saadyst wrote: »

*apologist mode*

Who said it was the rebels that cut into it? Might it be to find any survivors or dead bodies? It could have been the Ukrainian forces. We'll need a full, complete, independent and impartial investigation into who cut into the aircraft and why before being able to decide what to do next.

It is in strongly held rebel territory. There will be no such investigation of any meaning considering the site has been contaminated and manipulated and altered, the bodies looted and abused, and goodness knows what evidence planted or removed.

Saadyst

Piliger wrote: »

It is in strongly held rebel territory. There will be no such investigation of any meaning considering the site has been contaminated and manipulated and altered, the bodies looted and abused, and goodness knows what evidence planted or removed.

Sorry, maybe I should have been more clear I was being sarcastic :P

Tony EH

Piliger wrote: »

It is blatantly obvious that he pays their wages, trained them to shoot planes down inside a foreign country, told them to shoot anything down they liked, armed them with ground to air missiles and is not unhappy with the result. He is getting exactly what he wants. if they had done anything that he disapproved of there is one thing that is certain and that is that Putin would have had them shot or sent to a gulag, which still exist.

Are you really trying to say that Putin specifically ordered them to shoot down a civilian airliner?

loughside

I don`t know who is the worst, the terrorists or Putin himself,

this is his latest offering today (text from BBC)

`Despite Western sanctions, he said Moscow would stand by separatists in eastern Ukraine whom he described as part of a popular rising against an illegal coup. `

clearly an accomplice to mass murder, should be brought before The Hague now for war crimes.

Disgusting piece of work.

Red Nissan

loughside wrote: »

Disgusting piece of work.

Way back in 1945 a one known as General Patton is rumoured to have said that he should take the USSR down now as they still had the army in Europe to do it with rather than coming back later and going through all this again.

mickmackey1

Too many trolling western rednecks polluting these threads today.

gandalf

The more statements that come from Putin, the more obvious it is that the Western world needs to stand up to him and increase the severity of the sanctions against those who are keeping him in power. If they make supporting him become too expensive for his backers then he will find his support suddenly evaporate. We'll see how much of a "strong man" he is then.

Piliger

gandalf wrote: »

The more statements that come from Putin, the more obvious it is that the Western world needs to stand up to him and increase the severity of the sanctions against those who are keeping him in power. If they make supporting him become too expensive for his backers then he will find his support suddenly evaporate. We'll see how much of a "strong man" he is then.

Indeed. We need to stop doing business with him at all. As it is the inward investment into Russia has reduced 80% on what it was three years ago. Businesses need to realise that investing in Russia risks losing everything. We should also start spotlighting companies who do do business there and look at boycotts.

tigger123

Genuine question: how much of the EUs oil and gas comes from Russia? Could this be the reason for the softly softly approach from the EU?

Piliger

tigger123 wrote: »

Genuine question: how much of the EUs oil and gas comes from Russia? Could this be the reason for the softly softly approach from the EU?

Something that has been discussed extensively in recent days on Boards. Yes indeed. Germany relies almost completely on Russian gas and many of the other big countries rely 80+% on this source for industrial and domestic energy.
We have to remember that politicians do rely on their base to support their actions and sometimes the people in the street care more about their lighting and heating and jobs than international politics, even where lives are concerned.

tigger123

Piliger wrote: »

Something that has been discussed extensively in recent days on Boards. Yes indeed. Germany relies almost completely on Russian gas and many of the other big countries rely 80+% on this source for industrial and domestic energy.
We have to remember that politicians do rely on their base to support their actions and sometimes the people in the street care more about their lighting and heating and jobs than international politics, even where lives are concerned.

That's that then. Unfortunately Russia can do what it pleases so.

What a bunch of f*ckin dicks.

Ash.J.Williams

tigger123 wrote: »

That's that then. Unfortunately Russia can do what it pleases so.

What a bunch of f*ckin dicks.

Ireland are worse...our government won't make a stand on anything in case we offend our donors.

We are neutral....until it comes to inward investment and jobs then we are little sluts

Ash.J.Williams

so right now we are here:
USA/Ukraine - Russia/Rebels did it
Russia - Ukraine did it


so there is really nothing more to add until we hear the truth ......

Piliger

tigger123 wrote: »

That's that then. Unfortunately Russia can do what it pleases so.

What a bunch of f*ckin dicks.

Who ? The people of Europe ?

Piliger

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

so right now we are here:
USA/Ukraine - Russia/Rebels did it
Russia - Ukraine did it


so there is really nothing more to add until we hear the truth ......

Can anyone be that naive ? Who is going to determine the 'truth' ?

EU/ASIA/AUSTRALASIA/AFRICA/SOUTH AMERICA/CANADA/USA/Ukraine - Russia/Putin did it
Russia - Ukraine sneaked into our zone and fired off our rockets while we were out killing people.

Piliger

mickmackey1 wrote: »

Too many trolling western rednecks polluting these threads today.

You mean everyone other than Putin's puppies ?

gandalf

Piliger wrote: »

Can anyone be that naive ? Who is going to determine the 'truth' ?

EU/ASIA/AUSTRALASIA/AFRICA/SOUTH AMERICA/CANADA/USA/Ukraine - Russia/Putin did it
Russia - Ukraine sneaked into our zone and fired off our rockets while we were out killing people.

To be a little more exact.

EU/ASIA/AUSTRALASIA/AFRICA/SOUTH AMERICA/CANADA/USA/Ukraine - Pro-Russian Separatist backed and supplied by Russia/Putin did it
Russia - Ukraine sneaked into our zone and fired off our rockets while we were out killing people OR Ukraine had a jet shadowing the airliner and shot it down OR Ukrainians were trying assassinate Putin by shooting his plane down OR it was MH370 transferred from Asia to Amsterdam and automatically flown from there and shot down as a false flag operation.

I know which one is the more feasible and it ain't the crud coming from Russia or the Pro-Russian Separatists. I cannot believe that any intelligent person is giving credence to any of the CT ideas flying around.

loughside

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

so right now we are here:
USA/Ukraine - Russia/Rebels did it
Russia - Ukraine did it


so there is really nothing more to add until we hear the truth ......

that`s an insult to the intelligence of all,

but,

it`s a bigger insult to your own intelligence if you think anyone believes it,

or,

you`re just plain thick.

Egginacup

InTheTrees wrote: »

Basically Russia is one step off being a third world dictatorship.

Putin is crapping on the "constitution" at every opportunity. First he's president, then he's prime minister, then he's president again. Who knows what office he'll invent next. He throws his political enemies in jail. He controls the media and the courts. I believe he just introduced a law against making fun of him. There's huge oil wealth being sucked out of the country by putin and his oligarch friends, meanwhile average russians have a life expectancy of 70 years! Its a joke. Even saudi arabia is more socially responsible.

And no doubt putin will keep "winning" elections, over and over.

So lets not pretend for a second we're dealing with a normal western democracy here.

Saudi Arabia is more socially responsible? That's a bit of a stretch now. I haven't heard of any woman in Russia not being allowed to drive a car and I certainly haven't heard of any woman getting decapitated in public or being beaten to death with stones for having an affair with another man.

Egginacup

InTheTrees wrote: »

Well why the fck are they acting like they did it then?

Everything they've done in response screams We Did it!

They dont seem to understand the world is watching as they try and cover it up. Its really sad.

How are they acting like they did it? IF they wanted the world to know that they did it surely they'd just release a statement saying they are claiming responsibility.

A faked video and a bunch of made-up stuff in the press coupled with false accusations based upon zero evidence doesn't add up to them "acting like they did it".

People are making this claim that the rebels brought down the plane to "stick it to the man" in Kiev. That is one of the most absurd things I've ever heard. The rebels were already being quite successful in resisting Kiev's military operations. Downing a cargo plane (and hitting a passenger airliner by accident....another fantasy-land scenario) would have no military advantage for them at all. What's the crew on a cargo plane....maybe half a dozen? Why waste an expensive and sophisticate missile to hit a cargo plane to give Kiev a bloody nose when a simple bomb in a bar would do the job and probably kill twice as many servicemen?
I don't know what people think they know about military tactics and the game of geopolitics and manipulation but you don't take military action without weighing up the advantages and possible ramifications. And emotions such as "let's fcuk with Kiev" are never part of the process.
Sun Tzu and no shortage of other fairly handy military strategists would howl with laughter at the amateurish claims made by some on here.

The IRA could very easily have killed Ian Paisley and "stick it to the Unionists" like people on here think is actually part of the game. They never touched him. He was more useful to them alive and helping to alienate moderate Protestants from his firebrand sect than being made a martyr.

Egginacup

gandalf wrote: »

Good that's the signal to ramp up the sanctions and restrictions. Remove his support base.

Yes...sanctions that have no effect and that most Europeans and American businesses are staunchly opposed to. Sanctions aren't working. Kiev's bombardment of Eastern Ukraine isn't working. The hysterical attempts to draw Putin into a war aren't working. But sure keep trying the same thing and expect a different outcome.

Egginacup

comongethappy wrote: »

It isn't going to happen though.

France's very existence seemingly hinges on selling Russia those two assault carriers.

Are you saying that if a deal to sell two ships to Russia falls through then France will just disappear? The Fifth Republic....gone?