Malaysian airline MH-17 discussion thread

Conas

loosetongue wrote: »

If passenger planes leaving Europe are getting shot down on Europe's doorstep, it is our business to meddle now.
.

The Ukraine President was overthrown illegally, and now there are puppets installed. So no it shouldn't be any of our business, so we should stay well out of it. I'd trust Putin (the only leader in the world with a brain) to sort out this mess once and for all.

Awesomeness

floggg wrote: »

Would it be any less horrible if they were of different nationalities?

Less horrible no. But the reality is that countries will feel more pressure to act if their citizens are being shot down.

It is wrong but if this is a bunch or europeans it will put more pressure on heads of state than when the previous malaysian airline when down with mostly asians

It is wrong but its the world we live in

darkpagandeath

Beal Tuille wrote: »

Didn't think surface to air missiles could reach 33,000 feet.

Surely the jet has a sensor to know a missile is locked on it which would help identify where it came from once the black box is recovered. Dont think the pilot could do anything once the missile is locked on.

This could get a wee bit intensive......

The USSR shot down a U2 with a surface to air missile in the 60s and they operate over 70,000 feet

floggg

Conas wrote: »

The Ukraine President was overthrown illegally, and now there are puppets installed. So no it shouldn't be any of our business, so we should stay well out of it. I'd trust Putin (the only leader in the world with a brain) to sort out this mess once and for all.

I really hope this is sarcasm.

loosetongue

Conas wrote: »

It's got to the stage where Putin is going to have to send in Russian troops to oust these thugs in charge of Ukraine once and for all.

Are you paying attention, who do you think gave them the hi tech soviet surface to air missile equipment used to shoot it down?

According to Al Jazeera, Ukraine has been making significant advances against the separatists, that is why senior Russian military personal have recently been seen on Ukrainian soil and why they have given them equipment to shoot down Ukrainian planes at high altitude.

Wibbs

vicwatson wrote: »

BBC reporting it has to have been an air - air missile, who knows, whoever pressed the button on the rocket is a bastard. End of.

+1000. I'd be more likely to suspect a ground to air attack, but who knows. Terrible terrible tragedy.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

The fighter jet pilot would need permission to take it down surely?

That would be the usual thing, unless a pilot was on a general search and takedown order in an area without the need to contact base It would be extremely odd though. A fighter is going to able to eyeball the target and they would be able to see clearly that it was a civilian jet. This hasn't happened at night, nor would there be a sense of urgency, so I'm still reckoning ground to air, though it must have been some ground to air setup that could get to that altitude and cause such catastrophic damage to bring down a large airliner. When Korean KAL 007 was taken out by air to air missiles in the early 80's the Russian fighter had the largest air to air missiles in the world at the time and got a direct hit, but the plane stayed airborne for quite a while, even though mortally wounded. Depends on the wreckage they find in this case. If localised then she came down in one piece, if spread out then she broke up in midair. For the sake of the poor people in this tragedy I'd be hoping for the midair scenario.

Spring Onion wrote: »

Well in my day we would me much less be just as ghoulish and wait for the facts wild suppositions to come out in the newspaper. Then we would discuss them irrationally and whip ourselves up to a similar level of craziness until two years later when the final investigation came along and it would be buried on the back pages.

FYP.

The main difference between today and in pre interweb days is the speed at which the public reacts to such events. I remember Korean KAL 007 being brought down by the USSR on its way to Japan. People were getting real twitchy that this might trigger world war three, people were exchanging all sorts of conspiracy theories, as were the media. I was in Spain at the time and there were people on my flight back home that refused to get on the plane. They were gonna drive then ferry home.

The other difference today is that people are more informed, or at least can choose to be more informed. The information is significantly more available today.

And we were just as "ghoulish". Black humour hit fast after any tragedy too. I remember when the shuttle Challenger blew up and within hours you had "ah sure that's what happens when you let a woman fly"(Woman civillian guest was on the flight and heavily promoted at the time), and "what drink is off the menu in NASA? 7UP".

In my day my arse. :rolleyes: I was in the same "day" as you, maybe even an earlier "day" and these days are of a magnitude better.

TL;DR? FYI kids if someone uses the words "in my day" and they're under 80 and not dribbling on themselves, you can usually safely ignore any insights that follow.

wretcheddomain

Tarzana wrote: »

Has happened before:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007

It's so crazy that it's able to happen though.

More than once:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

Conas

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Yet you think it's ok to pontificate about Israel but when it comes to Comrade Putin you're all "nothing to see here folks"....

So what I should trust the US President, and the Israeli PM? who have been wrong about just about everything, and have given us an ash heap of ruins. I'm not one of these who goes on everything Fox News tell me.

My name is URL

suicide_circus wrote: »

This is the inevitable consequence of the 24 hour news instant media world in which we live.

It's fcuking ridiculous. Nothing but speculation and hearsay.. you'd get called up by mods here if you spouted some of the shite they're coming out with!

You'd expect it from Sky, but BBC & CNN seem to have reached their level now too.

c_man

Beal Tuille wrote: »

Surely the jet has a sensor to know a missile is locked on it which would help identify where it came from once the black box is recovered.

I really doubt this is the case for civilian aircraft.

wp_rathead

Conas wrote: »

The Ukraine President was overthrown illegally, and now there are puppets installed. So no it shouldn't be any of our business, so we should stay well out of it. I'd trust Putin (the only leader in the world with a brain) to sort out this mess once and for all.

glad to see bit of humor in this thread at last - thanks for this Conas

DrumSteve

Conas wrote: »

So what I should trust the US President, and the Israeli PM? who have been wrong about just about everything, and have given us an ash heap of ruins. I'm not one of these who goes on everything Fox News tell me.

Lads, a lot of people died, I really don't think there is a need for point scoring right now.

wretcheddomain

Conas wrote: »

So what I should trust the US President, and the Israeli PM? who have been wrong about just about everything, and have given us an ash heap of ruins. I'm not one of these who goes on everything Fox News tell me.

Who does Israel manage to get involved in every conversation on AH; from Garth Brooks to crashed airliners.

Some people are clearly obsessed with Israel.

Tarzana

Spring Onion wrote: »

It's fascinating how people react to a vacuum of information these days.

It's fascinating how some people are rottweilers when it comes to ways to feel superior.

wp_rathead

My name is URL wrote: »

It's fcuking ridiculous. Nothing but speculation and hearsay.. you'd get called up by mods here if you spouted some of the shite they're coming out with!

You'd expect it from Sky, but BBC & CNN seem to have reached their level now too.

CNN has been at their level quite some time now

Maphisto

Conas wrote: »

The Ukraine President was overthrown illegally, and now there are puppets installed. So no it shouldn't be any of our business, so we should stay well out of it. I'd trust Putin (the only leader in the world with a brain) to sort out this mess once and for all.

We surely should. Was Enda planning something then?

Wibbs

It's looking from the pics that are coming out that it broke up in midair. That was some missile. Jesus. Those poor people. Hopefully a midair breakup rendered them unconscious pretty much instantly.

Merkin

Those poor unfortunate people on board, what a tragedy

Conas

DrumSteve wrote: »

Lads, a lot of people died, I really don't think there is a need for point scoring right now.

It's not point scoring. There's too much pro-EU nonsense on boards.ie. is all.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

It's looking from the pics that are coming out that it broke up in midair. That was some missile. Jesus. Those poor people. Hopefully a midair breakup rendered them unconscious pretty much instantly.

Ya think? What I'm seeing looks like it was fairly intact, though things are sketchy.

Tarzana

Spring Onion wrote: »

Well in my day we would me much less ghoulish and wait for the facts to come out in the newspaper. Then we would discuss them rationally.

Yeah, there were faults with that system too. This is more immediate and information is corrected all the time. Whereas often wrong information would end up in newspaper columns.

6541

Really disturbing pictures on Twitter.

wp_rathead

Conas wrote: »

It's not point scoring. There's too much pro-EU nonsense on boards.ie. is all.

think its more "pro-lets not blow up planes lads" than "pro-EU" on boards.ie

beks101

floggg wrote: »

Would it be any less horrible if they were of different nationalities?

You know the answer to that.

Obviously this one has hit a lot closer to home and the likelihood of Irish/British/European passengers and of many boardsies actually knowing people on board is a lot higher than say MH370.

IvaBigWun

6541 wrote: »

Really disturbing pictures on Twitter.

Big time. Twitter needs better censorship when events like this occur.

wes

R.I.P to all those who died.

If the plane was shot down, hopefully those responsible will be brought to justice.

wretcheddomain

Conas wrote: »

There's too much pro-EU nonsense on boards.ie. is all.

It's much more anti-dickhead I can assure you.

Take a trip to the politics forum and start a thread "The Long Term Consequences of Israel and Malaysia Airliner Crash".

Penny Tration

Conas wrote: »

It's not point scoring. There's too much pro-EU nonsense on boards.ie. is all.

Ah here. It's a discussion about a horrible tragedy in which an awful lot of poor people lost their lives. It's not the right thread to peddle personal agendas.

cluelez

tragedy

cluelez

RIP