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Malaysian airline MH-17 discussion thread

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    #1592
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    Egginacup wrote: »
    it is NATO's desire for Russia to invade Ukraine and get bogged down in a war there

    Yes it is, isn't it.

    sotto voce: Get me security.


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    #1593
    who_me
    Registered Users Posts: 3,669 ✭✭✭who_me


    gandalf wrote: »
    You are kidding. An event like that would trigger a full invasion of eastern Ukraine by Russia. I think you will find the Ukrainians are showing incredible restraint where Russia and its forces are concern on purpose.

    A transport was shot down some weeks ago, killing 50 or so men. Several other Ukrainian aircraft have been shot down too, plus how many on the ground have been killed or injured? Not all with direct Russian involvement, but very likely with considerable Russian support.

    I'd agree they've shown immense restraint, but if things continue then sooner or later that'll break and they'll have to poke the bear.


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    #1594
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    No and that is my whole point. The news was breaking last week and we were told in no uncertain terms that it was shot down by the rebel spearatists. No other possibilities given. No analysis of who was to blame etc. Just blanket statements. I noticed how blatant it was straight away. And that raised my suspicions.

    A previous poster mentioned the "fool me once" phrase. That applies to us. We still going to blindly believe what America says in light of Iraq, Afghanistan, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden, the NSA spying on their own allies etc etc and the lengthy list goes back 70 years or so. We really going to believe them without any question?

    I noticed on the news that no sooner had a Malaysian plane gone down over European soil they were prepping to go to Washington for a live press briefing. I thought to myself "Why?"
    "What's this got to do with Washington? And so soon? Unless it does have something to do with Washington or they have something to gain from it"


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    #1595
    jimeryan22
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,170 ✭✭✭jimeryan22


    Egginacup wrote: »
    MM, Ukraine would love to shoot down a Russian plane. They take their orders from Washington, remember and it is NATO's desire for Russia to invade Ukraine and get bogged down in a war there.
    Thus far Putin has avoided this but it becoming harder for him to play this game of chess.


    Can I ask where you read or heard the bit about natos desire for russia to invade russia..? For that sole reason of getting them bogged down there..
    I heard an american naval intelligence officer say a similar thing 3 months ago... giving the reason that the US could then bomb syria..
    Sorry for going off topic for a sec


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    #1596
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    Peist2007 wrote: »
    Why do you think the Ukrainians would be shooting randomly? They had a clear motive in shooting down the plane. Use the americans and the western media to blame it on the Russians. Especially as Russian separatists shot down a plane earlier. It's very obvious.

    I think the least likely scenario here is that the plane was shot down randomly or by mistake by anybody.

    Careful Peist, some people on here will call you a tinfoiler for suggesting the supposed good guys might pull a nasty trick to further their agenda. They have no problem believing baddies would do such a thing they just can't bring themselves to contemplate that their "goodies" would also do it.


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    #1597
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    listermint wrote: »
    This comment encapsulates the ridiculousness of your posts on this matter.

    It's incredibly disappointing that you cannot even forward a legitimate case for the opposing argument.

    I would possibly research putting forward a better case for debate as the content of your posts on the matter would be best suited to comedy forum.

    You might want to take the time to think about the situation here. NATO and Washington have facilitated the coup that has put the current regime in power in Kiev.
    Putin has stated that he will protect ethnic Russians. Ukrainians are pounding Novorussian positions and killing civilians. These are hardly the actions of people who want to avoid provoking an invasion. The west has been trying to get Russia to lash out blindly for months now with its support of the Ukrainian bombardment of Novorussian civilians, sanctions, a propaganda campaign, the murder of protesters holed up in a trade union hall by neo-nazis.

    A stalemate favours Putin now as it has done in Syria. People are already accusing Putin of being Hitler and invading Ukraine (a complete lie) if he did actually invade Eastern Ukraine it would be a PR disaster for him and Christmas for NATO/Ukraine.


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    #1598
    smurfjed
    Registered Users Posts: 10,165 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    Why on earth would it scare you immensely ?? Do you plan on flying through a war zone any time soon ?
    Yep, if the new chart of dangerous areas is anything to go by, i or my colleagues do it everyday!
    El Al Airlines planes have anti missile defences.
    Are they capable of preventing this sort of missile attack?


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    #1599
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    Yes it is, isn't it.

    sotto voce: Get me security.

    Well maybe you might want to read Brzezinski's "The Grand Chessboard"
    It outlines the desire for the control of Eurasia. It's also make no secret of the desire to fragment Russia into a loose federation of semiautonomous zone. And to use the Ukraine as the launchpad for this project.

    Zbigniew Brezezinski is a former National Security Advisor.


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    #1600
    swiftblade
    Registered Users Posts: 2,551 ✭✭✭swiftblade


    smurfjed wrote: »
    Are they capable of preventing this sort of missile attack?

    Probably not. A closer to ground attack (where most happen) then yes, as the rocket would be heat seeking. I assume their counter measures are flares.


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    #1601
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Ah I see the putinbot reinforcements have arrived ;)


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    #1602
    smurfjed
    Registered Users Posts: 10,165 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    JImeryan22....
    Can I ask where you read or heard the bit about natos desire for russia to invade russia..?

    I googled it and found the reference here....

    http://journal-neo.org/2014/07/15/nato-hopes-for-russian-invasion-of-ukraine/ dated 15th July 14.
    For many reasons Russia will not benefit from invading Ukraine, and for many more reason, NATO and the EU would benefit from it – at least rhetorically. The Russians are therefore likely to resist provocations by Ukraine to cross the border and give NATO further excuses to meddle in Eastern Europe. Instead, Russia will allow Kiev to continue displaying its brutality and incompetence on the battlefield while eastern Ukrainians continue picking apart their forces. Meanwhile, economic pressure will continue undermining the regime in Kiev even amongst its supporters in western Ukraine.

    To me, New Eastern Outlook is kinda like Fox News, Russia style.


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    #1603
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    smurfjed wrote: »

    To me, New Eastern Outlook is kinda like Fox News, Russia style.

    A contributor of theirs, in all apparent seriousness, says that NATO in conjunction with Saudi Arabia, is setting up Ukraine as an Al-Qaeda base.

    No really, he does.

    http://journal-neo.org/2014/05/16/kiev-junta-joins-al-qaeda/

    It's "payback to Russia for stopping the US invasion of Syria."


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    #1604
    smurfjed
    Registered Users Posts: 10,165 ✭✭✭✭smurfjed


    Prince Bandar Bush from Saudi Arabia
    Who? There is no one of that name!


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    #1605
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    A contributor of theirs, in all apparent seriousness, says that NATO in conjunction with Saudi Arabia, is setting up Ukraine as an Al-Qaeda base.

    No really, he does.

    http://journal-neo.org/2014/05/16/kiev-junta-joins-al-qaeda/

    It's "payback to Russia for stopping the US invasion of Syria."

    Jesus wept.

    Tim Berners-Lee has a lot to answer for.


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    #1606
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users Posts: 9,893 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    Egginacup wrote: »
    I noticed on the news that no sooner had a Malaysian plane gone down over European soil they were prepping to go to Washington for a live press briefing. I thought to myself "Why?"
    "What's this got to do with Washington? And so soon? Unless it does have something to do with Washington or they have something to gain from it"

    Ah dude. Up to now you've done a good job.... don't slip up now.


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    #1607
    Sala
    Registered Users Posts: 1,494 ✭✭✭Sala


    I am so glad the Dutch have done everything they can and spared no expense when marking the return of the victims. This whole tragedy has been made worse by the horrendous lack of respect shown to the victims and their families. It is heartening to see the Dutch go to the lengths they did putting together the arrangements for the reception for the arrival of the bodies. I'm sure families are relieved their loved ones are finally in the hands of people who will treat them with the respect they deserve.


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    #1608
    comongethappy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,753 ✭✭✭comongethappy


    Sala wrote: »
    I'm sure families are relieved their loved ones are finally in the hands of people who will treat them with the respect they deserve.

    Not all bodies are recovered yet though.

    Hopefully as more officers arrive on-site, this will be remedied very soon.


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    #1609
    paulheu
    Registered Users Posts: 304 ✭✭paulheu


    It would appear preparations are in progress for a quick deployment of Dutch Military Police as well as (apparently) the Dutch Red Berets (quick deployment airborne division of the Army). The obvious goal will be securing the crash site as well as protecting and aiding the researchers. Weekend leave for red beret military personnel has been suspended and they are to remain at their base due to 'a possible armed mission'. This is a 2000 strong division.

    The last of the found remains will likely return to The Netherlands tomorrow and with that the road is cleared to move in to start the investigation on the ground. I would expect a UN resolution to that end to be brought to a vote possibly tomorrow with deployment commencing over the weekend.


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    #1610
    loughside
    Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭loughside


    comongethappy wrote: »
    Not all bodies are recovered yet though.

    Hopefully as more officers arrive on-site, this will be remedied very soon.

    Well, you`d like to think so, you would assume it`s the most humane thing to do, but it`s russian terrorists we`re dealing with here, and as the old saying goes What can you expect from a pigbut a grunt,

    "While investigators examine body bags in a fourth and final refrigerated train car parked in the Ukrainian city of Kharkiv, pro-Russian rebels who control the crash area banned recovery workers Thursday from searching for more bodies. Monitors from the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe and experts from Malaysia want to continue searching a debris field spanning several miles for human remains. "There's a lot of heavy debris still out there," spokesman Michael Bociurkiw said, "and we're not quite sure what could be underneath."
    Sergey Bochkovskiy, the head of Ukraine's State Emergency Services, said Thursday that "terrorists" cut off access to the area after the train carrying remains from the crash site to Kharkiv left the crash site.


    No doubt our apologists for Putins murderers will have some kind of rational excuse for this behaviour -


    i await the avalanche of verbal diarrhea


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    #1611
    mickmackey1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,288 ✭✭✭mickmackey1


    Don't worry about that, you three fundamentalists have frightened everyone else off


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    #1612
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    Canis Lupus wrote: »
    Ah dude. Up to now you've done a good job.... don't slip up now.

    Just thought they were very quick out of the traps. There was no such immediate press conference after MH370 went missing.


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    #1613
    mbur
    Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭mbur


    mickmackey1 wrote: »
    Don't worry about that, you three fundamentalists have frightened everyone else off

    Or maybe they are too busy enjoying the images on TV3 tonight of human remains being loaded and heaped up on the back of a truck like so many sacks of rubbish.


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    #1614
    deco nate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭deco nate


    mbur wrote: »
    Or maybe they are too busy enjoying the images on TV3 tonight of human remains being loaded and heaped up on the back of a truck like so many sacks of rubbish.
    Sick post!! :(


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    #1615
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    Last I saw the bodies were being kept on a train. Now they are back in the Netherlands. Can someone explain the parts I'm missing?


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    #1616
    mickmackey1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,288 ✭✭✭mickmackey1


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    Last I saw the bodies were being kept on a train. Now they are back in the Netherlands. Can someone explain the parts I'm missing?

    Flown from Kharkov to Amsterdam I believe.


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    #1617
    loughside
    Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭loughside


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    Last I saw the bodies were being kept on a train. Now they are back in the Netherlands. Can someone explain the parts I'm missing?

    i`ll run through the sequence in short easy to follow steps....

    Train --> Train Station --> Storage Facility --> Airport --> Plane --> Netherlands


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    #1618
    mbur
    Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭mbur


    loughside wrote: »
    i`ll run through the sequence in short easy to follow steps....

    Train --> Train Station --> Storage Facility --> Airport --> Plane --> Netherlands

    There isn't a railhead at the crash site. You missed the bit where the remains were gathered up and transferred by truck to the train. It wasn't pretty.


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    #1619
    jimeryan22
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,170 ✭✭✭jimeryan22


    Is Robert parry a putinist...?

    http://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/20/what-did-us-spy-satellites-see-in-ukraine/


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    #1620
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭pablo128


    jimeryan22 wrote: »
    Is Robert parry a putinist...?

    http://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/20/what-did-us-spy-satellites-see-in-ukraine/
    No, just a proven liar.


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    #1621
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    quote="shruikan2553;91426776"]Last I saw the bodies were being kept on a train. Now they are back in the Netherlands. Can someone explain the parts I'm missing?[/quote]

    The first 40 unknown bodies arrived yesterday in Netherlands, more today. I think they have found approx 200 bodies.

    The train left the crash area on Tuesday and at that time those "in charge" said there were 280 bodies on board.


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