Malaysian airline MH-17 discussion thread

jimeryan22

listermint wrote: »

Type this part into any search engine you wish

"audio of separatist commander verified" most all the returns on it state the voice on the call sounds the same as previous comms recorded of this guy's voice.


And the fact that you went to audio college bears no relation to you having skills to decipher human voice comparisons so it does not impress me an ounce.


Still you guys know it all so as I said before this so called debate is pointless.

I could hand hold you guys to the site and put a piece of Shrapnel in your hand from a missile that says up the Republic of donestk on the side and you would still argue white is black.

You could hand me anything you like and I'd question it with some of the nonscence you've come out with here in the last hour

listermint

DamagedTrax wrote: »

just as well i didnt go there. try again.

Oh so your course covered this did it?

It wouldn't for example be something that forensic analysis would actually learn on the job in a particular working environment.

Try again

DamagedTrax

listermint wrote: »

Oh so your course covered this did it?

It wouldn't for example be something that forensic analysis would actually learn on the job in a particular working environment.

Try again

yes my course covered audio analysis. exactly the same process is applied when comparing any two audio files (music, vocal or even just noise), even the software used is the same (the same one you'll see on CSI if thats your sorta thing).

any more questions? I'm Hdip (i can teach it) & ive worked in the industry a long time, i can answer your questions all day if you like.

listermint

jimeryan22 wrote: »

You could hand me anything you like and I'd question it with some of the nonscence you've come out with here in the last hour

Good one Jim.


Explain how there has not been a shred of evidence from any of the neutrals in this so called new Republic zone. From RT from and outlets in Russia that indicate that it was anyone but the separatist accidently firing a missile at this plane.

When there is an absolute jigsaw of items all pointing to them being the culprits reported from western and independent organisations including reuters and aljazzera

Piliger

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Ok, lets review the evidence:

The seperatists have admitted they had a ground to air missile launcher http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/23/mh17-ukraine-separatists-buk-missile-system. The rebels posted to social media accounts of them shooting down a plane in the area, before realising they hit a civilian plane. There are recorded telephone calls of them discussing this with Russian state security forces. The separatists have been shooting down Ukrainian planes in the area before MH17 crashed, and have been shooting down planes after MH-17 crashed. US intelligence, who have a satellite network capable of picking up the infrared missile launch signatures (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/07/how-us-satellites-pinpointed-source-of-missile-that-shot-down-airliner/), has stated that the plane was shot down by a missile launched from rebel held territory. There are pictures of a BUK being driven back into Russia from Ukraine after the shooting down of MH17 minus 2 missiles.

Meanwhile Putin who has been funding, arming and supplying the rebels, is not even denying the Western version of events, and is simply saying that it was the Ukrainians fault for not giving into the seperatists in the first place.

Looks like a fairly open and shut case to me.

What we need to grasp here is that NOTHING would qualify as evidence for Putin's puppies.
If we brought the man who fired the missile and stood him in front of them and he admitted it and brought video of him firing the missile and the plane exploding .. they would still say it was doctored by the nasty American satanic CIA.
Asking for evidence over and over and trying desperately, but unconvincingly, to sound rational and oh so reasonable doesn't hide their silly agenda.

listermint

DamagedTrax wrote: »

yes my course covered audio analysis. exactly the same process is applied when comparing any two audio files (music, vocal or even just noise), even the software used is the same (the same one you'll see on CSI if thats your sorta thing).

any more questions? I'm Hdip (i can teach it) & ive worked in the industry a long time, i can answer your questions all day if you like.

I dont have questions. You did.

Since your so technically gifted in the area. Of you go and use your software to substantiate or not the audio given.

I can't. I'm a taking face value the current multiple sources that indicates that it's genuine.

DamagedTrax

Piliger wrote: »

If we brought the man who fired the missile and stood him in front of them and he admitted it and brought video of him firing the missile and the plane exploding .. they would still say it was doctored by the nasty American satanic CIA.

nope.

Peist2007

Piliger wrote: »

What we need to grasp here is that NOTHING would qualify as evidence for Putin's puppies.
If we brought the man who fired the missile and stood him in front of them and he admitted it and brought video of him firing the missile and the plane exploding .. they would still say it was doctored by the nasty American satanic CIA.
Asking for evidence over and over and trying desperately, but unconvincingly, to sound rational and oh so reasonable doesn't hide their silly agenda.

Idiotic post. Anyone who doesnt immediately accept the American's position is one of Putin's puppies. You do see how you undermine anything you say by coming out with that guff?

Peist2007

listermint wrote: »

Shares in aluminium are through the roof.


I've made a killing on them. Cheers

Same here. See?

DamagedTrax

listermint wrote: »

I dont have questions. You did.

Since your so technically gifted in the area. Of you go and use your software to substantiate or not the audio given.

I can't. I'm a taking face value the current multiple sources that indicates that it's genuine.

ill tell you what, you go off and sit on the sidelines and have a little sulk and throw some insults about the place cause you're getting defensive because you got in too deep with someone who actually knows what they're talking about when it comes to analysis of the human voice.

let the rest of us adults have a conversation not involving complete ignorance of the subject.

listermint

There's very few adults left in here. The crazy have scared them all off.

Those that shout the loudest generally get their way. And make the normal people who have no time for nonsense go home.


On that note...

DamagedTrax

listermint wrote: »

There's very few adults left in here. The crazy have scared them all off.

Those that shout the loudest generally get their way. And make the normal people who have no time for nonsense go home.


On that note...

if you're equating somebody understanding the subject matter with 'shouting the loudest', then it probably is time for you to go home.

Peist2007

DamagedTrax wrote: »

if you're equate somebody understanding the subject matter with 'shouting the loudest', then it probably is time for you to go home.

Are these people always in support of all things USA or is it just that they have picked a position in this issue too early and are too stubborn to back down? Are we pointlessly debating this with Washington shills? You can be sure if the Kremlin has them then Washington does.

Peist2007

listermint wrote: »

There's very few adults left in here. The crazy have scared them all off.

Those that shout the loudest generally get their way. And make the normal people who have no time for nonsense go home.


On that note...

Be sure to come back when you have thought of something really funny and off-topic to say. Make it topical. I'm sure a man like yourself could shoehorn a Garth Brooks joke in there somewhere.

Ps martyrdom is very unbecoming on you

DamagedTrax

Peist2007 wrote: »

Are these people always in support of all things USA or is it just that they have picked a position in this issue too early and are too stubborn to back down? Are we pointlessly debating this with Washington shills? You can be sure if the Kremlin has them then Washington does.

im not sure. but i guess if we see things one way then there's probably at least 5 or 6 different views being seen by others.

im not gonna jump up and down screaming someone is wrong because they're blaming russia. i havent a f'kin clue if it was russia and to be honest even if america had definitive proof, they wouldnt let it out. to do so would surely push the world into serious conflict.

Peist2007

DamagedTrax wrote: »

im not sure. but i guess if we see things one way then there's probably at least 5 or 6 different views being seen by others.

im not gonna jump up and down screaming someone is wrong because they're blaming russia. i havent a f'kin clue if it was russia and to be honest even if america had definitive proof, they wouldnt let it out. to do so would surely push the world into serious conflict.

I think that serious conflict will be avoided even if it is shown that the Russians did this. However, it will lead to a major deterioration in already deteriorating relations and we could be looking back in 10 years and saying this was when the war was set in motion. So it is very serious.

Next few days will be very interesting.

Piliger

listermint wrote: »

There's very few adults left in here. The crazy have scared them all off.

Those that shout the loudest generally get their way. And make the normal people who have no time for nonsense go home.

You are right of course. The tin foil brigade are nothing if not persistent. This is a demonstration of their complete lack of rational thinking ability and logic. They just bang on and on and on .. with the same nonsense.
Sensible people have a lot more to do in our lives.

DamagedTrax

Piliger wrote: »

Sensible people have a lot more to do in our lives.

like sitting on a boards thread moaning the jaysus about anyone that disagrees with your views?

Muahahaha

Cool Mo D wrote: »

Ok, lets review the evidence:

The seperatists have admitted they had a ground to air missile launcher http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/23/mh17-ukraine-separatists-buk-missile-system. The rebels posted to social media accounts of them shooting down a plane in the area, before realising they hit a civilian plane. There are recorded telephone calls of them discussing this with Russian state security forces. The separatists have been shooting down Ukrainian planes in the area before MH17 crashed, and have been shooting down planes after MH-17 crashed. US intelligence, who have a satellite network capable of picking up the infrared missile launch signatures (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/07/how-us-satellites-pinpointed-source-of-missile-that-shot-down-airliner/), has stated that the plane was shot down by a missile launched from rebel held territory. There are pictures of a BUK being driven back into Russia from Ukraine after the shooting down of MH17 minus 2 missiles.

Meanwhile Putin who has been funding, arming and supplying the rebels, is not even denying the Western version of events, and is simply saying that it was the Ukrainians fault for not giving into the seperatists in the first place.

Looks like a fairly open and shut case to me.

It all definitely points to rebel/Russian involvement, their downing of a Ukrainian military plane just four days before MH17 certainly points the finger squarely at Russia & the separatists. I wouldn't blame anyone for thinking that, after all people don't have their own investigative teams or the time to carry out one. People see that the separatists had the means and the motive and had also got previous form in shooting planes down. So it's not really a hard stretch to join the dots. That's not to say that it is correct, only that it is understandable because it appears the most likely cause.

But we can't know for 100% and it's unlikely we ever will. People will still believe what they think is the most likely scenario and when it's talked about in 10 or 20 years people will have forgotten most of the small ðetails behind the case and their memory will just say 'yeah, sure wasn't it the Russians who did it'

loughside

Hey, kremlin disciples, yer aul mate in Moscow Mikhail Gorbachev seems to know where responsibility lies..,

bit of a bummer for the putinbots...all that effort for nothing

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/russian-newspaper-seemingly-blames-kremlin-downed-malaysia-airlines-jet-article-1.1879912
Novaya Gazeta - which is partly owned by former Soviet Union President Mikhail Gorbachev - featured a front-page photograph of hearses transporting the bodies of Dutch citizens killed in the crash with the headline, 'Forgive us, Netherlands.'

loughside

Hopefully the ordinary decent Russian people will be able to speak out and won`t be suppressed by this shower of scum in the kremlin

`The apology comes as Russian citizens left tributes to the victims of the MH17 crash outside the Dutch Embassy in Moscow, with some also asking for forgiveness.

Flowers, notes and toys have been placed there during the last few days. One message reads: “We are afraid, we are ashamed, we are in mourning," while another mourner left flowers accompanied by a note that simply reads: “Forgive us”.

Peist2007

loughside wrote: »

Hopefully the ordinary decent Russian people will be able to speak out and won`t be suppressed by this shower of scum in the kremlin

`The apology comes as Russian citizens left tributes to the victims of the MH17 crash outside the Dutch Embassy in Moscow, with some also asking for forgiveness.

Flowers, notes and toys have been placed there during the last few days. One message reads: “We are afraid, we are ashamed, we are in mourning," while another mourner left flowers accompanied by a note that simply reads: “Forgive us”.

First line of the article. Everyone has an agenda.

jimeryan22

Peist2007 wrote: »

First line of the article. Everyone has an agenda.

It's proof I tell you..!

NotASheeple

Piliger wrote: »

You are right of course. The tin foil brigade are nothing if not persistent. This is a demonstration of their complete lack of rational thinking ability and logic. They just bang on and on and on .. with the same nonsense.
Sensible people have a lot more to do in our lives.

Oh look, lets throw out the 'Tin Foil Hat Brigade' accusations again, to hopefully stifle and scare away anyone who may have questions or a differing opinion. Sick of reading this stupid childish nonsense. Nothing has been proved, there are many questions unanswered. Quite a few people feel the same way and yes, some people don't actually swallow the brainless spam put out by the Sun or similar 'newspapers'. I couldn't give a crap about the Russians or Putin. But looking a recent history, the US and how it tends to create wars, I trust them even less. Best be careful if you question and don't automatically accept what Sky News want to force feed ya. Because apparently, that makes you a tin foil hat wearer.

loughside wrote: »

One message reads: “We are afraid, we are ashamed, we are in mourning," while another mourner left flowers accompanied by a note that simply reads: “Forgive us”.

News Flash: Anonymous wreath left at an Embassy, confirms who was behind the downed plane.


Lost.For.Words.

jimeryan22

NotASheeple wrote: »

Oh look, lets throw out the 'Tin Foil Hat Brigade' accusations again, to hopefully stifle and scare away anyone who may have questions or a differing opinion. Sick of reading this stupid childish nonsense. Nothing has been proved, there are many questions unanswered. Quite a few people feel the same way and yes, some people don't actually swallow the brainless spam put out by the Sun or similar 'newspapers'. I couldn't give a crap about the Russians or Putin. But looking a recent history, the US and how it tends to create wars, I trust them even less. Best be careful if you question and don't automatically accept what Sky News want to force feed ya. Because apparently, that makes you a tin foil hat wearer.





News Flash: Anonymous wreath left at an Embassy, confirms who was behind the downed plane.


Lost.For.Words.

Don't forget to add... With a lot of this kind of thing going on in our world these days.. Pilliger and the cliche name calling brigade are actually the minority these days.. So sort of makes them the ones who lack logic and objective thinking...
But keep recycling that same paid for media bull.. Like robots...
Keep saying it enough, and we might believe you..

jimeryan22

Oh... Someone else saying the same as Robert parry now... No wonder the US didn't show you's their so called evidence...

http://en.ria.ru/world/20140725/191242509/Ukrainian-Air-Defense-Exercises-Might-be-Behind-Malaysian.html

Piliger

NotASheeple wrote: »

Best be careful if you question and don't automatically accept what Sky News want to force feed ya. Because apparently, that makes you a tin foil hat wearer.

If the cap fits.

Peist2007

Piliger wrote: »

If the cap fits.

Why dont you engage on the points raised rather than throw out insults? Questioning an extremely questionable narrative is not tin-foil hattery. The day it becomes so is the day we are royally screwed. You'll enjoy that as there is no necessity to think.

darkpagandeath

Occam's razor no need for elaborate explanations.

DamagedTrax

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Occam's razor no need for elaborate explanations.

solomonoff's theory of inductive inference would be a better substitue as it deals with many possibilities derived from previous models (ie: the US has previous form for stitching up which cannot be discounted but on the flip, putin is no angel either).

occam's Razor is only used as a discovery tool to guide in the development of theoretical models.