Malaysian airline MH-17 discussion thread

WakeUp · 08-08-2014 2:28pm

SeanW wrote: »

And I'm not down with the idea of murderous, imperialist scum who have a history of colonisation, aggression and genocide towards various smaller states dictate to ANYONE what relations they should have with those same states.

Nobody should be down with that. war usually follows economic war. this is the road we are on. all in favour of taking the Russians on in this manner should understand and know what it is you're asking for. Ukraine and Georgia those are Russian red lines. just sayin.

Piliger · 08-08-2014 4:13pm

WakeUp wrote: »

Nobody should be down with that. war usually follows economic war. this is the road we are on. all in favour of taking the Russians on in this manner should understand and know what it is you're asking for. Ukraine and Georgia those are Russian red lines. just sayin.

I agree. The EU and NATO should learn from the last war that appeasement only encourages imperialist expansion. The EU, USA and NATO need to make sure Putin knows that he cannot have Ukraine and that we are prepared to do whatever it takes to stop him. If he wants war then he can have war, and he will lose ignominiously. It is good to see recent reports from the NATO command that they have been extremely busy over recent months revising their structures, plans, communications etc, and bolstering logistics where equipment or troops need to be moved at short notice. Putin only understands one language.

jelenka · 08-08-2014 4:20pm

Piliger wrote: »

I agree. The EU and NATO should learn from the last war that appeasement only encourages imperialist expansion. The EU, USA and NATO need to make sure Putin knows that he cannot have Ukraine and that we are prepared to do whatever it takes to stop him. If he wants war then he can have war, and he will lose ignominiously. It is good to see recent reports from the NATO command that they have been extremely busy over recent months revising their structures, plans, communications etc, and bolstering logistics where equipment or troops need to be moved at short notice. Putin only understands one language.

So you are saying " lets start a war with Russia "?! You do understand that there won't be war with tanks, military aircraft and soldiers do you? If there will be one it's going to be nuclear. End of the civilisation, just because you and the likes of you ( hotheaded, unreasonable people who think they have to put Russia in it's place) want war with Russia?

blackwhite · 08-08-2014 4:25pm

KahBoom wrote: »

It's like Russia funding destabilization of the Mexican government, to try get a regime more friendly to their own international interests, with the future option of installing missile batteries in Mexico, pointed against the US (which is undoubtedly part of the long-term plan for Ukraine in NATO) - no way would the US stand for that, yet here people are expecting Russia to, in a country right on their doorstep.

Why pick Mexico? They already did this with Cuba.

WakeUp · 08-08-2014 4:43pm

Piliger wrote: »

I agree. The EU and NATO should learn from the last war that appeasement only encourages imperialist expansion. The EU, USA and NATO need to make sure Putin knows that he cannot have Ukraine and that we are prepared to do whatever it takes to stop him. If he wants war then he can have war, and he will lose ignominiously. It is good to see recent reports from the NATO command that they have been extremely busy over recent months revising their structures, plans, communications etc, and bolstering logistics where equipment or troops need to be moved at short notice. Putin only understands one language.

But I don't believe Putin does want war with the west . though can't be so sure about some in the west especially some of the maniacs based in Washington.

So you've been appointed commander Pilliger protector of the realm- as supreme NATO commander Pilliger you've reviewed your structures plans communications and logistics. you've decided in your learned wisdom that you're forces are ready and able and that it's a good idea to start a fight with the Russians. you have at your disposal the various capabilities of the NATO members both conventional and non conventional. sh1t be on. you're about to give the order to attack and strike first catch those dastardly Russians by surprise...what's the plan?..

KahBoom · 08-08-2014 4:47pm

Piliger wrote: »

I agree. The EU and NATO should learn from the last war that appeasement only encourages imperialist expansion. The EU, USA and NATO need to make sure Putin knows that he cannot have Ukraine and that we are prepared to do whatever it takes to stop him. If he wants war then he can have war, and he will lose ignominiously. It is good to see recent reports from the NATO command that they have been extremely busy over recent months revising their structures, plans, communications etc, and bolstering logistics where equipment or troops need to be moved at short notice. Putin only understands one language.

This is one of the most hysterical and comically unconvincing things I've ever read on Boards - are you going to sign up for this war yourself then, since you've got such a bloodlust?

An illegal war of aggression, is one of the things the Nuremberg Trials concluded was "essentially an evil thing...to initiate a war of aggression...is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime, differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

Great - lets go to war with the US then, for their illegal war of aggression in Iraq :rolleyes: "lets not appease them, it's only encouraging their imperialist expansion!"

The US actually invaded another country illegally - and right now people can barely make a case that Russia is even arming separatists/rebels - something the US has done in countries all over the world for decades, successfully using such tactics to topple democratically elected governments.

The hypocritical argument posters are making for war against Russia, boils down to a 'Might makes right' position, where the US can do no wrong, and is right to invade other countries at will - just because they have the military/economic firepower.

KahBoom · 08-08-2014 4:54pm

blackwhite wrote: »

Why pick Mexico? They already did this with Cuba.

That's a good point - and consider this: Cuba is a small country, not even on the US border, and it brought us the to closest nuclear war that we have ever been.

If that was bad, now imagine how the US would have reacted, if Mexico - a large country right on its doorstep, along its border, like the Ukraine with Russia - had done the same?

There would be a war - likely a nuclear war.

darkpagandeath · 08-08-2014 4:55pm

jelenka wrote: »

So you are saying " lets start a war with Russia "?! You do understand that there won't be war with tanks, military aircraft and soldiers do you? If there will be one it's going to be nuclear. End of the civilisation, just because you and the likes of you ( hotheaded, unreasonable people who think they have to put Russia in it's place) want war with Russia?

Jesus, And were straight off to the nuclear option. As Far as I know MAD is not an option these days. What benefit would Russia get from starting off with Nukes ? It's not the soviet days, a Large scale conventional war could be fought Russia pushed back into it's own territory. And that could be the end of it, All that needs to happen is a stop put on expansionist desires. Russia is just as terrified of the nuclear option like everyone else.

KahBoom · 08-08-2014 4:58pm

WakeUp wrote: »

But I don't believe Putin does want war with the west . though can't be so sure about some in the west especially some of the maniacs based in Washington.

Ya that whole concept is just ridiculous - the most warmongering nation on the planet, the US, acting as a morally virtuous defender against Russia - a country that rarely steps outside of its own sphere of influence? (a sphere of influence which includes ex-Soviet countries)

Doesn't make it right when it does get involved in countries, within its sphere of influence, but they've got nothing on the US, when it comes to bloodlust and warmongering.

comongethappy · 08-08-2014 5:05pm

KahBoom wrote: »

That's a good point - and consider this: Cuba is a small country, not even on the US border, and it brought us the to closest nuclear war that we have ever been.

If that was bad, now imagine how the US would have reacted, if Mexico - a large country right on its doorstep, along its border, like the Ukraine with Russia - had done the same?

There would be a war - likely a nuclear war.

Well, if Russia places scores of Nuclear ICBMs on the Mexican border... Just like what the commies did in Cuba, there probably would be words alright.

Though what this has to do with today I don't know, there is no modern equivalence.

InTheTrees · 08-08-2014 5:05pm

WakeUp wrote: »

I don't want Ukraine anywhere near NATO because I believe their leaders in the main are a bunch of incompetent hot headed dangerous phuckwits. Yulia let's nuke Russia being a prime example. and NATO membership for Ukraine is a red line for Russia and they are deadly serious about that. anyone paying attention will realise this. I'm not down with the idea of thermonuclear war with Russia over Ukraine. I'm not down with that idea at all.

SO you'd hand Ukraine over to Putin because you're scared of them???

And who would be next? Estonia? latvia? Will yous still be scared of Russia then?

InTheTrees · 08-08-2014 5:08pm

KahBoom wrote: »

Ya that whole concept is just ridiculous - the most warmongering nation on the planet, the US, acting as a morally virtuous defender against Russia - a country that rarely steps outside of its own sphere of influence? (a sphere of influence which includes ex-Soviet countries)

Ahhh. Poor rooskies. Just as they decide to do some invaisions themselves the nasty old yankees (the worst invaders evar!) decide to defend their ally.

Maybe Russia should go back to murdering chechens?

:pac:

KahBoom · 08-08-2014 5:10pm

InTheTrees wrote: »

SO you'd hand Ukraine over to Putin because you're scared of them???

And who would be next? Estonia? latvia? Will yous still be scared of Russia then?

Quit the ridiculous hysteria :rolleyes: nobodies 'handing over Ukraine' to anyone, there is fighting going on over one small territory within Ukraine, and the rebels are firmly losing, being confined within an even smaller part of that territory:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbass#mediaviewer/File:East_Ukraine_conflict_%28English_language_version%29.png

What's next for the US? Iran? Russia? Why are we so scared of the US, lets go to war against them...

Stupid arguments really.

InTheTrees · 08-08-2014 5:11pm

KahBoom wrote: »

Ukraine being brought into NATO, is a hostile move by the US against Russia.

Dont the Ukrainians get any say in the matter or does Putin make all the decisions for them?

KahBoom · 08-08-2014 5:14pm

InTheTrees wrote: »

Ahhh. Poor rooskies. Just as they decide to do some invaisions themselves the nasty old yankees (the worst invaders evar!) decide to defend their ally.

Maybe Russia should go back to murdering chechens?

:pac:

The US were never allies with the Ukraine - show me a formal treaty displaying that...

Maybe the US should go back to murdering Palestinians (by proxy), Iraqi's, Afghani's, Pakistani's, Yemeni's etc.??

Russia aren't even in the part of Ukraine where the fighting is going on - if you've got some proof that they have 'invaded' that part of Ukraine, do present it...

InTheTrees · 08-08-2014 5:14pm

KahBoom wrote: »

This is one of the most hysterical and comically unconvincing things I've ever read on Boards - are you going to sign up for this war yourself then, since you've got such a bloodlust?

If Russia interferes with Ukraine clearing out the remaining terrorists then yes, there will be Big Trouble.

KahBoom · 08-08-2014 5:15pm

InTheTrees wrote: »

Dont the Ukrainians get any say in the matter or does Putin make all the decisions for them?

Show me that they ever had a vote on that.

KahBoom · 08-08-2014 5:16pm

InTheTrees wrote: »

If Russia interferes with Ukraine clearing out the remaining terrorists then yes, there will be Big Trouble.

You're personally going to sign up for war with Russia then ya? :pac:

comongethappy · 08-08-2014 5:17pm

KahBoom wrote: »

Show me that they ever had a vote on that.

There has never been an offer to, or request by Ukraine joining NATO.

So.... A plebecite?
Unlikely to have ever been one.

InTheTrees · 08-08-2014 5:23pm

KahBoom wrote: »

The US went in and destroyed Russia economically in the 90's, by having the IMF implement the 'Washington Consensus' neoliberal policies, which led to a wave of corruption, financial pillaging and privatizations, that actually helped to create the oligarchs that are running Russia right now - the US effectively turned Russia into an oligarchy.

This is how the collapse of communism is explained by nationalist rusians?

Funny!!

:pac:

comongethappy · 08-08-2014 5:24pm

InTheTrees wrote: »

This is how the collapse of communism is explained by nationalist rusians?

Funny!!

:pac:

You can't get good Putinistas these days.

I miss Eggy.

KahBoom · 08-08-2014 5:33pm

InTheTrees wrote: »

This is how the collapse of communism is explained by nationalist rusians?

Funny!!

:pac:

Ya brush up on your history - the collapse of Communism was at the end of the 80's.

There's very little to actually contest, that:

KahBoom wrote:

The US went in and destroyed Russia economically in the 90's, by having the IMF implement the 'Washington Consensus' neoliberal policies, which led to a wave of corruption, financial pillaging and privatizations, that actually helped to create the oligarchs that are running Russia right now - the US effectively turned Russia into an oligarchy.

InTheTrees · 08-08-2014 5:38pm

KahBoom wrote: »

You're personally going to sign up for war with Russia then ya? :pac:

Sure. If russia invades Eastern Ukraine there will (most likely) be war.

Scary times.

We should all hope putin doesnt decide to do it.

InTheTrees · 08-08-2014 5:41pm

KahBoom wrote: »

Ya brush up on your history - the collapse of Communism was at the end of the 80's.

Wait... you're the russian.

The CCCP ceased to exist December 31st 1991.

InTheTrees · 08-08-2014 5:43pm

KahBoom wrote: »

Show me that they ever had a vote on that.

I was replying to your statement that "Ukraine being brought into NATO, is a hostile move by the US against Russia."

KahBoom · 08-08-2014 5:45pm

InTheTrees wrote: »

Wait... you're the russian.

The CCCP ceased to exist December 31st 1991.

Am I Russian? Or this just another tedious/petulant attempt at labeling someone a shill?

Believe it or not, not everyone who thinks war is a bad idea, is a Russian shill...

InTheTrees · 08-08-2014 5:57pm

KahBoom wrote: »

Am I Russian? Or this just another tedious/petulant attempt at labeling someone a shill?

Well you dont seem to care about the ukrainians at all. All your posts are about russia russia russia.

And how this effects russia. You havent shown a single shred of sympathy for anything the ukrainians might be going through.

buried · 08-08-2014 6:03pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Jesus, And were straight off to the nuclear option. As Far as I know MAD is not an option these days. What benefit would Russia get from starting off with Nukes ? It's not the soviet days, a Large scale conventional war could be fought Russia pushed back into it's own territory. And that could be the end of it, All that needs to happen is a stop put on expansionist desires. Russia is just as terrified of the nuclear option like everyone else.

That argument makes no sense though if you are like some on this thread who firmly believe that the Russian regime is a meglomaniac, terrorist, fascist, blood thirsty millieu of crazy people, I don't know if you personally feel that way but if you do hold that viewpoint too, how can you claim the next minute that this 'regime of evil' WON'T use nuclear weaponry if faced with a total defeat? I mean, if faced with defeat, isn't that exactly the apocalyptic tactic that will be deployed by 'maniac terrorist' types? Or now they won't? That they are just as 'level headed' as the regimes here in the west? Maybe then dialouge may be the key to resolve this?
Maybe kick out the actual fascist, anti-Jewish, anti-Russian, Nazi groups in power in Kiev? Groups like the Neo-Nazi Svoboda party, a gang of violent thugs who celebrate the extermination of Russian people by the hands of OUN/B - German Nazi SS Death Squads back in WW2 each year?
Because thats what this is about, if anybody thinks that Russia (even if they were led by a Mother Teresa type and not Putin) are simply going to allow a government of Neo-Nazi's - backed by the CIA, backed by a German led EU, Neo-Nazi's openly hostile to Russia and Russians, set up an armed regime beside Russia 70 years after the horror's of WW2, well then your just simply deluded, or have no concept of actual modern history.

And furthermore, all of you gung-ho, freedom and democracy loving Europeans, better keep an eye on this too - Svoboda setting up party chapters in Frankfurt, Cologne and Munich.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/indirect-berlin-support-for-ukrainian-right-wing-extremists-svoboda-a-959073.html

No need to worry about these guys though I suppose? Svoboda. A great bunch of Ukrainian Nazis.

jelenka · 08-08-2014 6:05pm

InTheTrees wrote: »

Well you dont seem to care about the ukrainians at all. All your posts are about russia russia russia.

And how this effects russia. You havent shown a single shred of sympathy for anything the ukrainians might be going through.

The ukrainians in Kiev and that part of ukraine are having no problems ( apart from the recent start of yet another Maidan rising ) , while the Donbas region is being bombed by kiev army nearly all day long , everyone is running towards the border and into Russia ( while Psaki insists they are all off on holiday to the Rostov region , which apparently is famous for fresh , healthy mountain air ( never mind that there are no mountains In that region ))

InTheTrees · 08-08-2014 6:08pm

jelenka wrote: »

The ukrainians in Kiev and that part of ukraine are having no problems

I was actually talking about ALL ukrainians.

You russians already have the place carved up I see.

Malaysian airline MH-17 discussion thread

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