Malaysian airline MH-17 discussion thread

Elmer Blooker

deco nate wrote: »

Have you not heard of a free app call flight radar?
You can see in real time flights all over the world, or was that faked? DOH!!
Next...

You seem to be in the know? I wonder where you're getting your info?
There are too many unanswered questions for my liking. http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/07/25/mh17-verdict-real-evidence-points-to-us-kiev-cover-up-of-failed-false-flag-attack/

deco nate

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

You seem to be in the know? I wonder where you're getting your info?
There are too many unanswered questions for my liking. http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/07/25/mh17-verdict-real-evidence-points-to-us-kiev-cover-up-of-failed-false-flag-attack/

Yea, that's a great well renowned site worldwide

deco nate

KahBoom wrote: »

It's really childish that all posters can come up with, when asked to provide some evidence of Russian involvement, is some variation of "prove they didn't".

The burden of proof is on the posters making the claim, to go find links to back that up.

If it's so obvious the Russian's are responsible, should be piss easy for one of you to provide a link to back it up.

Stop trying to drag this out endlessly again - like happened last time proof was demanded from people: Either provide your proof of Russian involvement, or retract the claim that it is proven.

Hang on, is this aimed at me?

You asked how did anyone know if it was flying at 32,000 feet, I replied telling you that info is freely available.

You are glossing over this fact. It was already posted here. So that ct of yours that small arms gunfire could take it down is bs.

But what may have happened was after the plane was shot down was that, whoever shot it down told the troops on the ground to muddy the waters by firing bullets in the remains of the aircraft.

Elmer Blooker

deco nate wrote: »

Yea, that's a great well renowned site worldwide

if it's a bit too "left" for your liking thats ok, we're all entitled to our opinions.

But what may have happened was after the plane was shot down was that, whoever shot it down told the troops on the ground to muddy the waters by firing bullets in the remains of the aircraft.

christ almighty! ..... and they call us "Putinistas" conspiracy theorists!!!!

deco nate

deco nate wrote: »

Hang on, is this aimed at me?

You asked how did anyone know if it was flying at 32,000 feet, I replied telling you that info is freely available.

You are glossing over this fact. It was already posted here. So that ct of yours that small arms gunfire could take it down is bs.

But what may have happened was after the plane was shot down was that, whoever shot it down told the troops on the ground to muddy the waters by firing bullets in the remains of the aircraft.

You are mixing up your posters. Kahboom didn't ask that question and I doubt he would ask such a stupid question.
Elmer Blooker asked the question.

deco nate

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You are mixing up your posters. Kahboom didn't ask that question and I doubt he would ask such a stupid question.
Elmer Blooker asked the question.

Ah, Ok.. Sorry to KahBoom.

deco nate

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

if it's a bit too "left" for your liking thats ok, we're all entitled to our opinions.

christ almighty! ..... and they call us "Putinistas" conspiracy theorists!!!!

We're in my post did I name a side?!

pablo128

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

You seem to be in the know? I wonder where you're getting your info?
There are too many unanswered questions for my liking. http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/07/25/mh17-verdict-real-evidence-points-to-us-kiev-cover-up-of-failed-false-flag-attack/

That site says it was POSSIBLY an Ukrainian military plane that shot it down, could have hit an engine with bullets, then when they realised it was still flying, blew it up with a rocket. Or it could have been a BUK belonging to the Ukrainian army that took it down. And that the rebels definitely didn't have BUK's.
So it's clear they are grasping at straws. Nothing but speculation.

deco nate

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/08/evidence-now-conclusive-2-ukrainian-government-su-25-fighter-jets-shoot-malaysian-airliner-buk-missile-ground-shot-involved.html
Quote:“There have been two or three pieces of fuselage that have been really pockmarked with what almost looks like machine-gun fire, very very strong machine-gun fire.”
You posted this, I replied.
An you have a problem with it. Ok

(aimed at Elmer Blooker)

darkpagandeath

deco nate wrote: »

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/08/evidence-now-conclusive-2-ukrainian-government-su-25-fighter-jets-shoot-malaysian-airliner-buk-missile-ground-shot-involved.html
Quote:“There have been two or three pieces of fuselage that have been really pockmarked with what almost looks like machine-gun fire, very very strong machine-gun fire.”
You posted this, I replied.
An you have a problem with it. Ok

(aimed at Elmer Blooker)

Yes that's what modern SA missiles do they go off at a stand of range from the plane like a shotgun, spreading shrapnel and a pressure wave. Think to many people who CT think missiles hit the plane. Can you name 1 military fighter plane now that use machineguns, because i cant how would you take down an armoured fighter in a dog fight with 7.62 for example. all fighter jets either use cannons that are 30 mm or some kind of min/Gatling cannon/gun. Can at lest you CT guys actual do some research, and not just make up stuff.

deco nate

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yes that's what modern SA missiles do they go off at a stand of range from the plane like a shotgun, spreading shrapnel and a pressure wave. Think to many people who CT think missiles hit the plane. Can you name 1 military fighter plane now that use machineguns, because i cant how would you take down an armoured fighter in a dog fight with 7.62 for example. all fighter jets either use cannons that are 30 mm or some kind of min/Gatling cannon/gun. Can at lest you CT guys actual do some research, and not just make up stuff.

Aimed at me? Or saying as I have said?? Sorry

jelenka

InTheTrees wrote: »

The russians like to threaten us with it.

They have little else.

When did Russians threaten with nuclear war?
You all seem to be forgetting that so far the only country that used nuclear weapons was US and against country that had no nuclear weapons at all.

America is the real terrorist, right at this very moment they are bombing Iraq and support Israel in their attack on Palestine.

Reminds me of Syria and Lybia - countries that were rich in oil and other resources, as soon as US stepped in - leaders were announced as dictators, killed or overturned and wars started.

Ridiculous, how another continent has so many wars started, none of which were on their own land.

Piliger

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Yes that's what modern SA missiles do they go off at a stand of range from the plane like a shotgun, spreading shrapnel and a pressure wave. Think to many people who CT think missiles hit the plane. Can you name 1 military fighter plane now that use machineguns, because i cant how would you take down an armoured fighter in a dog fight with 7.62 for example. all fighter jets either use cannons that are 30 mm or some kind of min/Gatling cannon/gun. Can at lest you CT guys actual do some research, and not just make up stuff.

Go easy on them. They are passing on the garbage that they receive from Putin's PR people and we can't expect them to be smart enough to realise how much nonsense it is. Sky tv cameras showed panels on the ground with shrapnel holes early on.
The whole issue is finished now anyway as far as the world is concerned - except North Korea of course. Putin slaughtered those people, abused their bodies and families. End of.

InTheTrees

jelenka wrote: »

When did Russians threaten with nuclear war?

ha ha ha. I was talking about you ruskies on Boards.ie!

:pac:

miss tickle

Piliger wrote: »

Go easy on them. They are passing on the garbage that they receive from Putin's PR people and we can't expect them to be smart enough to realise how much nonsense it is. Sky tv cameras showed panels on the ground with shrapnel holes early on.
The whole issue is finished now anyway as far as the world is concerned - except North Korea of course. Putin slaughtered those people, abused their bodies and families. End of.

I would't be inclined to rely on a reporters analysis of the wrekage.

http://investmentwatchblog.com/new-mh17-sensation-german-experts-point-finger-at-ukrainian-air-force-jets/

This is an interesting article which point to evidence of possible 30mm entry and exit holes in the cockpit, also there is a link within the article to an analysis by a retired army colnel familiar with air defense technology. Just an excerpt here,

Had splinters from a surface to air missile hit
the plane, it would have immediately caught fire, argues the NVA
anti-aircraft missile specialist. His reasoning is because of the
“enormous frictional heat that the splinters generate on penetrating
the fuselage. A single splinter contains the same kinetic energy as a
40-ton freight car hitting the buffers at 60 kilometers per hour.” In
the case of the Malaysian Boeing, scattered fires had broken out after
the impact with the ground, because hot debris from the aircraft had
come in contact with combustible materials.

also, a compilation of photos of the debris, especially parts found from the cockpit,

http://ronaldwederfoort.blogspot.ie/2014/08/cis-plane-mh-17-was-brought-down-by.html

smurfjed

Originally Posted by Elmer Blooker View Post
How do you know Flight MH17 was flying at 32,000 feet when Kiev ATC refuses to release any details?

Elmer, if you are trying to argue a point, it doesnt help your case if you offer a site that clearly shows that the aircraft was flying at 33,000

There are too many unanswered questions for my liking. http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/07/2...e-flag-attack/

As for the rest of that site, well they could do with brushing up on their aviation technical knowledge before passing judgement, like for example they might look up how an Inertial Reference System works and how many of these a B777 actually has.

smurfjed

Earlier, the Dutch Safety Board said its preliminary report into the cause of the disaster will likely not be released until some time in September.

Spokesman Wim van der Weegen said normally under International Civil Aviation Organisation rules, a preliminary report is published one month after a crash date. But the difficulty in accessing the crash site amid fighting between Ukrainian forces and pro-Russian separatist rebels has pushed the timeframe back.

(Todays Sunday World.)

Elmer Blooker

smurfjed wrote: »

Elmer, if you are trying to argue a point, it doesnt help your case if you offer a site that clearly shows that the aircraft was flying at 33,000
As for the rest of that site, well they could do with brushing up on their aviation technical knowledge before passing judgement, like for example they might look up how an Inertial Reference System works and how many of these a B777 actually has.

Like I said, Kiev ATC refuses to release any details. Why not?

Meanwhile, are they really getting this desperate? You couldn't make it up!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2720899/MH17-rebels-meant-Aeroflot-plane-justify-invasion-Astonishing-claim-respected-head-Ukraine-intelligence-service.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

darkpagandeath

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Like I said, Kiev ATC refuses to release any details. Why not?

Meanwhile, are they really getting this desperate? You couldn't make it up!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2720899/MH17-rebels-meant-Aeroflot-plane-justify-invasion-Astonishing-claim-respected-head-Ukraine-intelligence-service.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

I'm sure the Dailymail could make it up .

Elmer Blooker

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I'm sure the Dailymail could make it up .

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/nalyvaychenko-said-that-separatists-intended-to-shoot-down-russian-passenger-plane-359765.html

its becoming more and more absurd by the day!

The Ukrainian intelligence service says that Russian armed forces had been planning to invade Ukraine on July 18.

darkpagandeath

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/nalyvaychenko-said-that-separatists-intended-to-shoot-down-russian-passenger-plane-359765.html

Sounds like cold war thinking, Creating the premise for war. But I'm going with the less CT of the separatists just shooting a plane down mistakenly. And I keep hearing that the ATC is not getting release. Released to whom ? I assume all the relevant crash investigation experts have had access to this. Being somewhat public information, Don’t hugely know the laws governing this. I will go with, Air crash investigation authorities requesting the information not being just handed out to random people. Until the investigation is completed or at least further down the line.

pablo128

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Meanwhile, are they really getting this desperate? You couldn't make it up!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2720899/MH17-rebels-meant-Aeroflot-plane-justify-invasion-Astonishing-claim-respected-head-Ukraine-intelligence-service.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

It's as valid a theory as any of the Russian theories.

darkpagandeath

Anyone answer who's saying the ATC info is not being release, I goggled and all i got was CT nut stuff. Who is saying apart from them that the ATC info is not being released ? or was confiscated by the Ukrainian secret service

InTheTrees

jelenka wrote: »

America is the real terrorist, right at this very moment they are bombing Iraq

Really?

So you're sympathetic for the plight of the psychopaths who were hacking off kids heads and sticking them on poles?

You putin people are an odd bunch to be sure.

smurfjed

Like I said, Kiev ATC refuses to release any details. Why not?

I always love the way that some people here divert the topic, I told you that the site you referenced was using incorrect information, but rather than accept that, you immediately go in another direction.
As the Dutch accident investigators have stated, normally they would have to release a preliminary report within month, but because they are basically attempting to conduct an investigation in a war zone, they won't release it until September. That is the only time that you will hear transcripts of the ATC communications.

MaryDorisS

InTheTrees wrote: »

Really?

So you're sympathetic for the plight of the psychopaths who were hacking off kids heads and sticking them on poles?

You putin people are an odd bunch to be sure.

Is this the same people trained and armed by the us and the west in Turkey and Jordan to fight Assad...? That ended up turning around and taking over half the Middle East..? Those people..?
Otherwise known as al queda then al nusra then Isis and now is..? Those people..? Western trained and backed..?

Peist2007

InTheTrees wrote: »

ha ha ha. I was talking about you ruskies on Boards.ie!

:pac:

Typical narrow-minded reaction on this subject. An attempt to kill debate. Pathetic

MaryDorisS

Piliger wrote: »

What the Putinistas don't seem to get is that this issue is over ... long long ago. We know what happened. Europe, the US and the rest of the world doesn't care what these Putinistas keep arguing about and their evidence BS. The case is decided. The case is closed. Putin slaughtered those people, abused their bodies and families. End.

It is my professional opinion that you should book an appointment to see your therapist and get a few things of your chest...
This statement just makes you look mad as a brush..

Peist2007

smurfjed wrote: »

As the Dutch accident investigators have stated, normally they would have to release a preliminary report within month, but because they are basically attempting to conduct an investigation in a war zone, they won't release it until September. That is the only time that you will hear transcripts of the ATC communications.

So why not wait until this is carried out before pointing the finger? And why the fear to acknowledge that the Americans are one of the suspects here and shouldnt really be doing any finger pointing?

Peist2007

MaryDorisS wrote: »

It is my professional opinion that you should book an appointment to see your therapist and get a few things of your chest...
This statement just makes you look mad as a brush..

His persistent messages all saying the same thing would have him shouting "Putinista" if the shoe was on the other foot. I have long stopped trying to engage with him. Like talking to a child. Maybe he is an "Obamanista" (see - not very clever). Or are we only allowed to think that the Russians are the only ones with bots in these rooms?