Malaysian airline MH-17 discussion thread

comongethappy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It would be best if people didn't post links to Twitter or news feeds with graphic content. Also really don't need to read posts describing graphic images

Feel free not to click a posted link.

beks101

My name is URL wrote: »

Ukraine is the largest country in Europe, and this happened in a relatively remote area in which an active conflict is underway.

Plus the wreckage probably covers an area of a few dozen miles. It's not just as straight forward as emergency services showing up and instantly closing the crash site off.

In the pictures I've seen there's a concentration of (disturbing) wreckage in one area where a swarm of what looks like firefighters, locals and journalists also are. I find it hard to believe that section can't be dealt with

comongethappy

comongethappy wrote: »

Feel free not to click a posted link.

I haven't clicked any thankfully but not everyone warns about the graphic nature of what is in the link.

Captain Chaos

karma_ wrote: »

I'm not sure what they would tell us other than it was definitely struck by a missile.

In fairness, this one seems clear cut and it can only be the separatists.

Nope, the separatists have nothing that can touch an aircraft above 10,000ft, just shoulder launched missiles. This was brought down by a proper military SAM site that can hit an aircraft at any altitude.

Lingua Franca

Separatists found the black box, say they're sending it to Moscow - Dutch News NOS channel

Donkey Oaty

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Nope, the separatists have nothing that can touch an aircraft above 10,000ft.

BBC published this at 17.32:

The BBC's Oleg Boldyrev in Moscow says the rebels do not have out-dated equipment. What they have equals or maybe surpasses the Ukrainian government's capabilities. He says some reports say the rebels even have fighter planes reportedly flown from Crimea and that possibility should not be excluded.

comongethappy

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Nope, the separatists have nothing that can touch an aircraft above 10,000ft, just shoulder launched missiles. This was brought down by a proper military SAM site that can hit an aircraft at any altitude.

I thought that.... But it seems they could have had a couple of captured (or donated) larger SAM launchers.

One of the eastern rebel leaders was boasting about some advanced SAM capability recently acquired.

GrumPy

Deleted User wrote: »

I haven't clicked any thankfully but not everyone warns about the graphic nature of what is in the link.

No, not everyone is gonna NSFW tag photos.
So if you don't want to see that, you should probably avoid clicking ANY image links on twitter if you don't want to see graphic imagery. It's a plane crash, everyone died, there are going to be videos and photographs of human remains.

AlanS181824

I hope all those are okay.

Thoughts are with their families.

Edit: Just read the article, what an awful awful thing to happen

darkpagandeath

Lingua Franca wrote: »

Separatists found the black box, say they're sending it to Moscow - Dutch News NOS channel

There is also talk from the separatist side the site might be attacked to cover up something.

miss no stars

Lingua Franca wrote: »

Separatists found the black box, say they're sending it to Moscow - Dutch News NOS channel

Oh dear.

For anyone wondering about whether that's normal (considering that Russia lay claim to the area), black boxes normally go to the country of manufacture - so that'd be the UK, France, the USA...

comongethappy

darkpagandeath wrote: »

There is also talk of the site might be attacked to cover up something.

Tricky if the crash-site is huge, however taking the flight recorder to their leaders in Moscow is surely very poor move?

Starscream25

Terrible tragedy what happened today. I'm just curious would the aircraft of known that there was an oncoming missile or projectile with their radar? Obviously not much could be done if they had known. So close to home the feelings are magnified.

Tipsy McSwagger

Deleted User wrote: »

It would be best if people didn't post links to Twitter or news feeds with graphic content. Also really don't need to read posts describing graphic images

Best stay away from this thread then.

comongethappy

Starscream25 wrote: »

Terrible tragedy what happened today. I'm just curious would the aircraft of known that there was an oncoming missile or projectile with their radar? Obviously not much could be done if they had known. So close to home the feelings are magnified.

I don't think they can see objects that small?
Either way, evasion would have been impossible.

darkpagandeath

comongethappy wrote: »

Tricky if the crash-site is huge, however taking the flight recorder to their leaders in Moscow is surely very poor move?

Very due to the international nature of the passengers. There should be an international impartial criminal investigation. To find out what happed for the sake of the relatives.

aloyisious

Re the crash "graphic" photo-links, I hope the urge to post them is resisted, as no one know's who'll stray across them. I wouldn't want to put up a photo and have a child or other relative see a brother, sister etc laid out at the scene, just because I had the capability to do so.

Skylinehead

miss no stars wrote: »

Oh dear.

For anyone wondering about whether that's normal (considering that Russia lay claim to the area), black boxes normally go to the country of manufacture - so that'd be the UK, France, the USA...

First, Russia does not lay claim to Eastern Ukraine.

Second, you'd assume that Russia would send it on to Boeing/whoever when they get it. Hopefully anyway.

Captain Chaos

Starscream25 wrote: »

Terrible tragedy what happened today. I'm just curious would the aircraft of known that there was an oncoming missile or projectile with their radar? Obviously not much could be done if they had known. So close to home the feelings are magnified.

No they would not have known. Only military aircraft know that a missile has been launched at them because they are fitted with radar warning receivers completely different system than standard radar. They may have seen it for a split second before it hit if they were looking the right way and if it didn't hit directly underneath.

floggg

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Nope, the separatists have nothing that can touch an aircraft above 10,000ft, just shoulder launched missiles. This was brought down by a proper military SAM site that can hit an aircraft at any altitude.

Have you personally audited their weapon stores?

darkpagandeath

floggg wrote: »

Have you personally audited their weapon stores?

Nope but the separatists themselves say they don't have that capability.

gandalf

Stay away from Twitter if you don't want to see graphic images. The worst one I saw is a picture of a baby by itself in a ploughed field.

The crash site is a mess and no effort seems to have been made to cordon it off. It does appear that the Pro-Russian Rebels are the most likely culprits as they have Buk Medium Range Anti-Aircraft Surface to Air missiles and did tweet this afternoon that they had shot down a Ukrainian Government Jet just before the Malaysian Jet had been reported as disappearing off the scope.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/118741/ukraine-rebels-allegedly-downed-malaysian-airlines-buk-launcher

Captain Chaos

floggg wrote: »

Have you personally audited their weapon stores?

Just an educated guess that they don't have access to that type of hardware. Anything is possible though.

Firefox11

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Very due to the international nature of the passengers. There should be an international impartial criminal investigation. To find out what happed for the sake of the relatives.

But there is also lots of sensitive politics going on. May be years to get a accurate picture here.

Tail Docker

Conas wrote: »

It's got to the stage where Putin is going to have to send in Russian troops to oust these thugs in charge of Ukraine once and for all.

Umm, yeah. Right. Aren't they his thugs?

fedor.2.

I can't believe there are people looting the wreckage and the bodies.

miss no stars

Skylinehead wrote: »

First, Russia does not lay claim to Eastern Ukraine.

Second, you'd assume that Russia would send it on to Boeing/whoever when they get it. Hopefully anyway.

My apologies for offending your sensibilities, Russian Separatists lay claim to the area being Russian and Russia just happens to be helping them :rolleyes:

and yes, you'd hope they would but I won't be holding my breath on that one if indeed they have possession of it.

listermint

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Just an educated guess that they don't have access to that type of hardware. Anything is possible though.

Embarrassed for your posts when all evidence points to the opposite. Some people should think before the post rather than posting unadulterated nonsense.

Tar.Aldarion

This was the post made claiming to have done it, quickly deleted:
http://i.imgur.com/IMaKN3h.jpg

AN-26 airplane was shot down near Torez, it fell somewhere behind the mine "Progress".
We warned - do not fly in "our sky".
And here is the video proof of another "bird-fall" (bird = slang for an airplane).
Another bird fell behind the spoil tip, residential areas were not affected.
No civilians were harmed.

ItsChecoTime

Tragic news, flew over Ukraine in a Malaysian airline flight a few days ago so pretty scary stuff. RIP to those that died