Malaysian airline MH-17 discussion thread

WakeUp

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Your right, An article from the Telegraph must be true. You don't find it odd Ukrainians using German phrases like Untermenschen ? And an advisor to Arsen Avakov that's just some random. Great report, I’m sure they have proof those lot command thousands of men then ? As the pro Russia side will shout down anything, Yet put forward any scrap that could muddy the water. True or not.

no I don't find that odd at all , considering you know, they are dirty filthy nazis. why don't you google Anton Gerashchenko. some "random" you say. pointing out the Kiev fascist wolfsangel brigades makes one pro-Russian now. really .maybe in the good and bad musnt mention it as they are "our" guys paradigm simplistic world it does . but not in mine. mention the Kiev fascist brigades then watch the cognitive dissonance on display. its simply astounding. it doesn't sit well because it doesn't fit into the script. best then to ignore it and try and ridicule it pretend it isn't so. it musnt be so.

aloyisious

Eh,, now it's not just Kiev behind the downing of the plane, it's NATO as well, and not the separatists or Moscow. Grab's bag of popcorn and wait's for more evidential revelations, so's the relatives of the deceased can be told who murdered their dead family members on the plane.

Piliger

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Your right, An article from the Telegraph must be true. You don't find it odd Ukrainians using German phrases like Untermenschen ? And an advisor to Arsen Avakov that's just some random. Great report, I’m sure they have proof those lot command thousands of men then ? As the pro Russia side will shout down anything, Yet put forward any scrap that could muddy the water. True or not.

We don't hear about it because the evidence was gathered, the verdict is in and we all know who slaughtered those people - it was Putin and his mercenaries in Eastern Ukraine. There is no doubt and there will be no doubt.

The families ? Are they on tv and in the news demanding to know who slaughtered their families ? No.Because they know who did it. The world knows who did it. Only the pay-for-post Putinistas carry on like the earth is flat because they are paid to do so.
Putin is the mass murderer here. No one else.

Busted Flat.

Piliger wrote: »

We don't hear about it because the evidence was gathered, the verdict is in and we all know who slaughtered those people - it was Putin and his mercenaries in Eastern Ukraine. There is no doubt and there will be no doubt.

The families ? Are they on tv and in the news demanding to know who slaughtered their families ? No.Because they know who did it. The world knows who did it. Only the pay-for-post Putinistas carry on like the earth is flat because they are paid to do so.
Putin is the mass murderer here. No one else.

“Myth is much more important and true than history. History is just journalism and you know how reliable that is.”
― Joseph Campbell

InTheTrees

sparksfly wrote: »

Unlike yourself I do not slavishly fawn over any one side in this debacle.

This all pales into insignificance when compared to the foreign policy actions of the US, their countless atrocoties are too well documented for me to repeat again and again.

Umm.

So you're on the russian side and anti-europe because you're enraged by US atrocities?

ok....

Elmer Blooker

aloyisious wrote: »

Eh,, now it's not just Kiev behind the downing of the plane, it's NATO as well, and not the separatists or Moscow. Grab's bag of popcorn and wait's for more evidential revelations, so's the relatives of the deceased can be told who murdered their dead family members on the plane.

There were many articles like this one immediately after July 17th. This is more than just lies and propaganda, this is desperation - a really amateurish attempt at a cover up.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/490014/Rebels-steal-bodies-from-flight-MH17

The Ukrainian government said yesterday that rebels were “seeking large transports to carry away plane fragments to Russia”.

sparksfly

InTheTrees wrote: »

Umm.

So you're on the russian side and anti-europe because you're enraged by US atrocities?

ok....

Nope, just because I don't automatically blame Russia for downing this aircraft without evidence does not make me pro Russian.

Russia, The US (especially) and many European countries have carried out atrocities for their own interests.

That is why unfounded statements, like for example, "Putin is the mass murderer here. No one else" from Piliger is laughable when the Western powers he so clearly worships are themselves steeped in blood.

I am not on any side on this matter but the demonizing of Russia by those who are blind to the horrors carried out by certain western nations is hypocrisy at its finest.

Elmer Blooker

sparksfly wrote: »

Nope, just because I don't automatically blame Russia for downing this aircraft without evidence does not make me pro Russian.

Russia, The US (especially) and many European countries have carried out atrocities for their own interests.

That is why unfounded statements, like for example, "Putin is the mass murderer here. No one else" from Piliger is laughable when the Western powers he so clearly worships are themselves steeped in blood.

I am not on any side on this matter but the demonizing of Russia by those who are blind to the horrors carried out by certain western nations is hypocrisy at its finest.

Unfortunately the hypocrisy and double standards are something you have to accept on the various Ukraine threads here on boards.
Some people can look the other way and just ignore the untold misery, death and destruction brought to the world courtesy of the US/NATO and all for what? Look at Iraq today, a million dead perhaps but its good for the arms industry and Wall Street and that what counts.

aloyisious

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Unfortunately the hypocrisy and double standards are something you have to accept on the various Ukraine threads here on boards.
Some people can look the other way and just ignore the untold misery, death and destruction brought to the world courtesy of the US/NATO and all for what? Look at Iraq today, a million dead perhaps but its good for the arms industry and Wall Street and that what counts.

"the first casualty of war is truth" quote ring's true as ever

Grayson

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Unfortunately the hypocrisy and double standards are something you have to accept on the various Ukraine threads here on boards.
Some people can look the other way and just ignore the untold misery, death and destruction brought to the world courtesy of the US/NATO and all for what? Look at Iraq today, a million dead perhaps but its good for the arms industry and Wall Street and that what counts.

most people don't think it's relevant. We could go back hundreds of years and look at what the Crimean Rus did but there's no point. What happened in Iraq is not relevant. It doesn't make Russia behaviour any more or less acceptable.

Taking over Crimea is wrong. Sending armed troops into another country to take over to form the majority of of an insurgent force, that is motivated by your propaganda, is wrong.

Peist2007

Grayson wrote: »

most people don't think it's relevant. We could go back hundreds of years and look at what the Crimean Rus did but there's no point. What happened in Iraq is not relevant. It doesn't make Russia behaviour any more or less acceptable.

Taking over Crimea is wrong. Sending armed troops into another country to take over to form the majority of of an insurgent force, that is motivated by your propaganda, is wrong.

Troops were sent into Crimea as a response to the coup in Kiev. If you look at things chronologically you will see that to be the case. Strategically, taking Crimea was a prudent move by the Russians but their hand was forced in that respect.

Busted Flat.

Grayson wrote: »

most people don't think it's relevant. We could go back hundreds of years and look at what the Crimean Rus did but there's no point. What happened in Iraq is not relevant. It doesn't make Russia behaviour any more or less acceptable.

Taking over Crimea is wrong. Sending armed troops into another country to take over to form the majority of of an insurgent force, that is motivated by your propaganda, is wrong.

So is sending in mercenaries and Blackwater troops to Midan square to enforce a coup against an elected government.

Piliger

Grayson wrote: »

most people don't think it's relevant. We could go back hundreds of years and look at what the Crimean Rus did but there's no point. What happened in Iraq is not relevant. It doesn't make Russia behaviour any more or less acceptable.

Taking over Crimea is wrong. Sending armed troops into another country to take over to form the majority of of an insurgent force, that is motivated by your propaganda, is wrong.

And Putin's mercenaries slaughtering 280+ men women and children in a civilian plane is just plain evil.

Busted Flat.

Piliger wrote: »

And Putin's mercenaries slaughtering 280+ men women and children in a civilian plane is just plain evil.

Have you a link with evidence, not social media reports to back that up, as far I can see the evidence is pointing the other way towards Kiev.

Piliger

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Have you a link with evidence, not social media reports to back that up, as far I can see the evidence is pointing the other way towards Kiev.

No. The rest of the world, as opposed to the Putinistas know what happened. Putin's mercenaries slaughtering 280+ men women and children in a civilian plane

sparksfly

Piliger wrote: »

No. The rest of the world, as opposed to the Putinistas know what happened. Putin's mercenaries slaughtering 280+ men women and children in a civilian plane

Why bother with all this black box deciphering rubbish, all that needs to be done is consult this "rest of the world" crowd who seem to have all the answers.
You haven't made one sensible statement on this thread yet, just the same "Putin is evil and shot down the plane because I say so" garbage.

Piliger

sparksfly wrote: »

Why bother with all this black box deciphering rubbish, all that needs to be done is consult this "rest of the world" crowd who seem to have all the answers.
You haven't made one sensible statement on this thread yet, just the same "Putin is evil and shot down the plane because I say so" garbage.

That's because the evidence has been gathered and has already been assessed and decided on by the world. Your game of denying it repeatedly ad nauseum interests no one and your interest in the black box is a joke. A black box contains no data relevant to a missile attack, unless the crew watched it approach them and shouted 'missile !' We all know what happened, Putin's mercenaries slaughtering 280+ men women and children in a civilian plane and that is just plain evil.

aloyisious

Sanctions bite both ways. http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/germany-blames-contraction-on-russian-sanctions-1.1904878

Elmer Blooker

aloyisious wrote: »

Sanctions bite both ways.

The USA's plans are going beautifully, it was all so easy.
....... this thread is all about MH17 isn't it?

Piliger

aloyisious wrote: »

Sanctions bite both ways. http://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/germany-blames-contraction-on-russian-sanctions-1.1904878

But it is so worth it.

Elmer Blooker

I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked.
I just thought I'd post this as all mention of MH17 is now censored by our free western media, a news blackout was imposed on this UN meeting for some reason?
http://rt.com/news/183524-mh17-investigation-churkin-unsc/

“Unfortunately, from the very beginning we have been witnessing attempts to conceal evidence and to hinder the implementation” of the resolution adopted by the UN Security Council, the minister said. “Russia is the only country which officially presented to the international community the data related to the incident as received through our space monitoring capacity.”

pablomakaveli

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked.
I just thought I'd post this as all mention of MH17 is now censored by our free western media, a news blackout was imposed on this UN meeting for some reason?
http://rt.com/news/183524-mh17-investigation-churkin-unsc/

It's been pointed out to you several times that continuous reporting wont happen when there's nothing new to report on. And you've some cheek to be posting RT links again when you criticize other media outlets like the BBC for being biased to the West.

Elmer Blooker

pablomakaveli wrote: »

It's been pointed out to you several times that continuous reporting wont happen when there's nothing new to report on. And you've some cheek to be posting RT links again when you criticize other media outlets like the BBC for being biased to the West.

Good post, I like it. Attack is the best form of defence.

darkpagandeath

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Good post, I like it. Attack is the best form of defence.

What do you want them to report ? Is there not a preliminary report coming out in September. Or at least being done it's hard to gather information in a War zone.

Elmer Blooker

darkpagandeath wrote: »

What do you want them to report ? Is there not a preliminary report coming out in September. Or at least being done it's hard to gather information in a War zone.

Indeed, it is hard to gather information in a war zone. Attempts to enforce a ceasefire at the crash site were blocked by guess who?

Yesterday, Michael Bociurkiw, spokesman for the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), made it absolutely plain that it was the Ukrainian government offensive that halted access to the crash site. Speaking in Donetz, he said: “We’ve been dealing with the [pro-Russian] separatists for three months and since the crash happened we’ve had access every day until this [fighting].”

Busted Flat.

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Indeed, it is hard to gather information in a war zone. Attempts to enforce a ceasefire at the crash site were blocked by guess who?

To refresh my point, there was wall to wall reporting of the crash scene up till the 12/8/14 when the Malaysia Straits Times made the claim that Kiev shot down the plane. Then we had silence, look at the low level coverage of the return of the Malaysian victims. The Western press and governments want this story buried. Too many high profile people will be embarrassed with the outcome.
Then the questions will be asked what were the sanctions about.

darkpagandeath

Busted Flat. wrote: »

To refresh my point, there was wall to wall reporting of the crash scene up till the 12/8/14 when the Malaysia Straits Times made the claim that Kiev shot down the plane. Then we had silence, look at the low level coverage of the return of the Malaysian victims. The Western press and governments want this story buried. Too many high profile people will be embarrassed with the outcome.
Then the questions will be asked what were the sanctions about.

If that were true why is there no screaming from the rooftops by a certain side about Ukraine shooting down the plane ? If that other side had a shred of proof they would be shouting it from the rooftops. But I’m not going to deal with any CT nonsense. Lets stick to the facts. Separatists were only ones in the area shooting down aircraft. Ukraine had no need to shoot down planes as Separatists don't have an air force.

Busted Flat.

darkpagandeath wrote: »

If that were true why is there no screaming from the rooftops by a certain side about Ukraine shooting down the plane ? If that other side had a shred of proof they would be shouting it from the rooftops. But I’m not going to deal with any CT nonsense. Lets stick to the facts. Separatists were only ones in the area shooting down aircraft. Ukraine had no need to shoot down planes as Separatists don't have an air force.

I await the outcome, the longer it takes increases my suspicion. I don't expect a conclusion this year, maybe late 2015. It will all have calmed down by then.

darkpagandeath

Busted Flat. wrote: »

I await the outcome, the longer it takes increases my suspicion. I don't expect a conclusion this year, maybe late 2015. It will all have calmed down by then.

It takes what ever time it takes, Are you suspicious of the other flight they have not even found that one ? A civilian agency has little need to hide facts the report or a preliminary one should be out in September sometime. Air crash investigations take time years in some cases there is no set time line to releasing information.

Busted Flat.

darkpagandeath wrote: »

It takes what ever time it takes, Are you suspicious of the other flight they have not even found that one ? A civilian agency has little need to hide facts the report or a preliminary one should be out in September sometime. Air crash investigations take time years in some cases there is no set time line to releasing information.

My only problem with the other Malaysian crash is, if it crashed in the Indian ocean, how come the US airbase and intelligence center in Diego Garcia did not or were not able to track the plane when it entered the Indian ocean.
I find it hard to understand that a plane could not be detected entering an area that is under the control of US naval intelligence. Simple explanation I think could be the person watching the screen either went to the toilet or fell asleep.
Does not bode well for US security, no matter what way it turns out.