Malaysian airline MH-17 discussion thread

Peist2007 · 31-08-2014 2:48pm

Great to see all the boardsies who are experts in missile technology and can completely rebuff a former deputy commander of a military airport :rolleyes:

smurfjed · 31-08-2014 2:51pm

I'm just amazed at how he came to the conclusion that the fighter jet was flown by a POLISH PILOT.

Busted Flat. · 31-08-2014 3:11pm

smurfjed wrote: »

I'm just amazed at how he came to the conclusion that the fighter jet was flown by a POLISH PILOT.

Read the article in full.

The Romanian expert noted that Polish military pilots are best trained in south-eastern Europe and have many hours of flight time (180-200 hours per year). "They are familiar with the airspace of Ukraine, they took part in all exercises that Ukrainian Air Force has organized in the last four or five years. Polish Air Force has 31 MiG-29 jets, 16 of which were re-equipped by specialists of Israel Aerospace Industries. The planes received new avionics (multifunction color displays (MFCD), GPS-guided weapons, data-link support, UHF / VHF RT-8200 Rockwell Collins radio station and MDP video technology, etc.). Polish pilots were trained by Israeli instructors who have extensive experience in destroying a variety of air targets, concluded Valentin Vasilescu.

pablo128 · 31-08-2014 3:16pm

So it wasn't the Russians or the Ukrainians, but the Polish that took down the plane. I'll be honest, I didn't see that coming.
Errr, why would the Polskis be blowing planes out of the sky in Ukraine?

Busted Flat. · 31-08-2014 3:25pm

pablo128 wrote: »

So it wasn't the Russians or the Ukrainians, but the Polish that took down the plane. I'll be honest, I didn't see that coming.
Errr, why would the Polskis be blowing planes out of the sky in Ukraine?

Consider Black Opp's. wouldn't be a first, would it.

Consider Poland's lapdog approach, illegal US interrogation center's, strongest supporter in the EU for the Kiev junta.

smurfjed · 31-08-2014 3:30pm

Applying that logic, you could mention pilots from ANY of these countries, or the countries that used to operate the aircraft...

Algeria - 26 MiG-29s in service in January 2014[141][142]
Azerbaijan – 13 MiG-29s in operational use in January 2014[141][142]
Bangladesh – 8 MiG-29SE (6 MiG-29B and 2 MiG-29UB) in service in April 2013.[143] To be upgraded to MiG-29SMT.[citation needed]
Belarus – 41 MiG-29s in inventory as of January 2014[141]
Bulgaria – 14 MiG-29 and four MiG-29UB fighters in service.[144][145]
Chad – 3 MiG-29s[146]
Cuba – 4 MiG-29s in inventory as of January 2014[141]
Eritrea – 4 MiG-29s in service as of January 2014[141]
India
Indian Air Force - 67 MiG-29s in service as of January 2014[141]
Indian Naval Air Arm - 20 MiG-29Ks in service as of January 2014[141]
Iran – 25 MiG-29s in inventory as of January 2014[141]
Kazakhstan – 40 MiG-29s in service as of January 2014[141]
Malaysia – 12 MiG-29s in inventory as of January 2014.[141] To be retired.[147]
Mongolia – Five MiG-29s on order as of July 2011[148][149]
Myanmar – 14 MiG-29s in service as of January 2014[141]
Peru – 19 in service as of January 2014.[141] 8 upgraded, 11 to be upgraded.[150][151]
North Korea – 35 in service as of January 2014[141] 12 initially bought from Belarus in 1995 and a follow-up order of 18 MiG-29SE plus three new aircraft from Russia in 1996.[citation needed]
Poland – 38 in service as of January 2014[141]
Russia
Russian Air Force - ~230–291 MiG-29s in service, including 30 MiG-29SMTs (Buturlinovka AFB)[152][153][154]
Serbia
Serbian Air Force and Air Defence - three MiG-29s and one MiG-29UB in service as of April 2012[155][156]
Slovakia – 6 in service in January 2014[141]
Sudan – 12 in service as of January 2014.[141]
Syria – 19 MiG-29s in operation as of January 2014[141]
Turkmenistan – 24 MiG-29s in use as of January 2014[141]
Ukraine
Ukrainian Air Force - 80 MiG-29s in use as of January 2014[141]
United States – Used by private defense contractor Air USA for adversary training services.[157]
Uzbekistan – 60 MiG-29s in operation as of January 2014[141]
Yemen – 18 MiG-29SMTs and one MiG-29UBT in service as of January 2014[141]

And thats before we start talking about shooting at another aircraft from the front!

Peist2007 · 31-08-2014 4:14pm

smurfjed wrote: »

Applying that logic, you could mention pilots from ANY of these countries, or the countries that used to operate the aircraft...

And thats before we start talking about shooting at another aircraft from the front!

Yep the big issue here is whether or not it was a Polish pilot :rolleyes:

darkpagandeath · 31-08-2014 5:03pm

Well at least this CT uses a plane that could have shot down a passenger aircraft, Unlike the last one that was a ground attack plane.

But again why would polish pilots be shooting down civilian aircraft over Ukraine ?

Lets go through this again, The only people in the area shooting down planes has been the separatists. Ukraine has no need to shoot down planes as separatists don't have an air force. Polish pilots have no reason to break Ukrainian airspace to shoot down separatists planes as they have none.

pablomakaveli · 31-08-2014 5:12pm

Peist2007 wrote: »

Great to see all the boardsies who are experts in missile technology and can completely rebuff a former deputy commander of a military airport :rolleyes:

I'm trained on the Rapier FSC air defence system so i do have some knowledge in that area actually.

Peist2007 · 31-08-2014 5:23pm

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I'm trained on the Rapier FSC air defence system so i do have some knowledge in that area actually.

Underlined why i'll be listening to the other guy

Peist2007 · 31-08-2014 5:24pm

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Well at least this CT uses a plane that could have shot down a passenger aircraft, Unlike the last one that was a ground attack plane.

But again why would polish pilots be shooting down civilian aircraft over Ukraine ?

Lets go through this again, The only people in the area shooting down planes has been the separatists. Ukraine has no need to shoot down planes as separatists don't have an air force. Polish pilots have no reason to break Ukrainian airspace to shoot down separatists planes as they have none.

Maybe the Americans will show this with the rest of their irrefutable evidence.

pablomakaveli · 31-08-2014 5:27pm

Peist2007 wrote: »

Underlined why i'll be listening to the other guy

I wonder has he fired an anti-air system and seen how they work. Somehow i doubt it.

Peist2007 · 31-08-2014 5:33pm

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I wonder has he fired an anti-air system and seen how they work. Somehow i doubt it.

I'll still trust someone who actually has held the position he has than an internet warrior with questionable motives

These revelations do not suit your narrative do they?

darkpagandeath · 31-08-2014 5:37pm

Peist2007 wrote: »

I'll still trust someone who actually has held the position he has than an internet warrior with questionable motives

These revelations do not suit your narrative do they?

What narrative would that be ? Only people in the area shooting down planes was ? That's right the separatists.

pablomakaveli · 31-08-2014 5:40pm

Peist2007 wrote: »

I'll still trust someone who actually has held the position he has than an internet warrior with questionable motives

These revelations do not suit your narrative do they?

Ya whatever. Not that interested in what some random person on the internet believes me or not. But rather why i'm not buying his "analysis", for a Russian media outlet i might add, based on my own personal experience.

gandalf · 31-08-2014 7:21pm

Now the Russians are blaming the Polish Air Force, this is farcical. I'm just waiting for them to start blaming fictional characters like James Bond or Harry Potter next!!!

Busted Flat. · 31-08-2014 8:56pm

gandalf wrote: »

Now the Russians are blaming the Polish Air Force, this is farcical. I'm just waiting for them to start blaming fictional characters like James Bond or Harry Potter next!!!

The Russians are not blaming the Polish, if you read the article, you would see.

Peist2007 · 31-08-2014 9:11pm

Busted Flat. wrote: »

The Russians are not blaming the Polish, if you read the article, you would see.

Serious scrambling going on here. Looking forward to the day there'll be egg on faces in here.

Peist2007 · 31-08-2014 9:12pm

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Ya whatever. Not that interested in what some random person on the internet believes me or not. But rather why i'm not buying his "analysis", for a Russian media outlet i might add, based on my own personal experience.

The feeling of complete disinterest is mutual. I'm an astronaut by the way. See what i did there?

gandalf · 31-08-2014 9:23pm

Peist2007 wrote: »

I'm an astronaut by the way.

Based on your post content here you are definitely a space cadet

Busted Flat. · 31-08-2014 9:34pm

gandalf wrote: »

Based on your post content here you are definitely a space cadet

Someone that is interested in the world around him and see it on a global scale,their opinion is more important than someone with their head in the sand.

smurfjed · 31-08-2014 9:43pm

The problem Busted Flat is that you aren't offering any technical justifications for a lot of your comments, you are just accepting what is posted online.
We have all seen the photographs showing the holes around the left cockpit area, have you considered the technicalities of attacking another aircraft from the front? Why would you do it? Do you know the range of the 30mm canon installed in the Mig29? Do you know how much time they would have had to make their shot based on the impact area?
When you have thought about all of this, then ask yourself, if you are attacking in an extremely more powerful and manoeuvrable jet, why wouldn't you attack from the rear?

pablomakaveli · 31-08-2014 9:50pm

Peist2007 wrote: »

The feeling of complete disinterest is mutual. I'm an astronaut by the way. See what i did there?

Don't you mean cosmonaut?

Peist2007 · 31-08-2014 10:13pm

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Don't you mean cosmonaut?

:rolleyes:

Peist2007 · 31-08-2014 10:14pm

gandalf wrote: »

Based on your post content here you are definitely a space cadet

I know. Me asking for evidence to back up all those initial (and increasingly baseless) claims. Madness. This may shock your tiny mind but some of us can think for ourselves.

Elmer Blooker · 31-08-2014 10:15pm

Peist2007 wrote: »

Serious scrambling going on here. Looking forward to the day there'll be egg on faces in here.

I wonder when that "day" will be? It could be years.
This week the NATO summit takes place in the UK, the MH17 black boxes ended up in the UK - do I need to say anything more?

smurfjed · 31-08-2014 10:20pm

Here you go again, we have already posted about the legend of the UK AAIB, but it sounds that you will never accept their report because they are in the UK.
Have you forgotten the part about the Russian involvement in the investigation?

darkpagandeath · 31-08-2014 10:34pm

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I wonder when that "day" will be? It could be years.
This week the NATO summit takes place in the UK, the MH17 black boxes ended up in the UK - do I need to say anything more?

Were would you accept them being analysed ? I doubt America What's the problem with them being analysed in the UK ?

Busted Flat. · 31-08-2014 10:42pm

smurfjed wrote: »

The problem Busted Flat is that you aren't offering any technical justifications for a lot of your comments, you are just accepting what is posted online.
We have all seen the photographs showing the holes around the left cockpit area, have you considered the technicalities of attacking another aircraft from the front? Why would you do it? Do you know the range of the 30mm canon installed in the Mig29? Do you know how much time they would have had to make their shot based on the impact area?
When you have thought about all of this, then ask yourself, if you are attacking in an extremely more powerful and manoeuvrable jet, why wouldn't you attack from the rear?

I do not have my head in the sand, I am looking for answers, I am following this from the start and have read anything to do with this massacres, I have not pointed the finger at anyone, some may not agree. I will repeat my point about the silence of the western press on the reporting of this massacre since the Straits Times made their report. The US and EU countries have the intel and satellite images, if Russia is guilty show the images, not the images of two bit contractors that they have shown. Put the evidence up or shut up.

pablomakaveli · 31-08-2014 11:13pm

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I wonder when that "day" will be? It could be years.
This week the NATO summit takes place in the UK, the MH17 black boxes ended up in the UK - do I need to say anything more?

You do. You're making more baseless claims. Do you have evidence?

Malaysian airline MH-17 discussion thread

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