Malaysia Airlines plane shot down in Ukraine near Russian border[Mod warning post#193

Tenger

lisar816 wrote: »

Why have family members been allowed on the crash site? Surely that should not be allowed happen until all the wreckage has been taking away,

Considering the way there family members have been treated at the scene, a scene which is being treated the complete opposite way to any other crash scene I see no reason why they shouldn't be there. If a family relative of yours was bombed out of the sky nearly two weeks ago, you're told we may only find a limb and we haven't received all the bodies and to know your relative could be lying there in a field, what would your reaction be? It's a ridiculous situation - There should of been a taskforce of some sort sent in the day after to secure the scene.

Red Nissan

Edsonbarboza wrote: »

Pardon my ignorance Dont know if this is the right thread to ask,but how are the flight recorders saved on impact what are they made from,a fall from 30,000ft plus is some drop,is it the same material in this boeing as an Airbus?[/QUOTE]

Expand your question. Or make a few single answer questions. Make a statement. Then Ask A: B: C:

I don't want to assume your question. And I don't want to lead you either.

folbotcar

keith16 wrote: »

It also shows how toothless the EU really is. Where did you see the photo of the cockpit by the way? I've been trying to avoid photos in case I come across anything upsetting. Link would be good, but only if it shows the aircraft parts alone.

There's a photo earlier in this thread. It's upsetting but no body parts. They had no chance.

folbotcar

smurfjed wrote: »

Was out flying all day so missed the news, when did the proof that it was shot down by the Russians come from?

Last that i knew was that it was shot down by a missile that was most likely built in Russia, but as to who fired it, I doubt very much that it was a Russian finger, or even a Russian instruction.

Ah come on! Please stop this nonsense. An ethnic Russian fired this missile, safe in the knowledge that he was fighting for Mother Russia secure in the knowledge that Tovarich Putin approved his actions.
You are a regular here not some conspiracy nut. Stop the sophistry.

weisses

folbotcar wrote: »

Ah come on! Please stop this nonsense. An ethnic Russian fired this missile, safe in the knowledge that he was fighting for Mother Russia secure in the knowledge that Tovarich Putin approved his actions.
You are a regular here not some conspiracy nut. Stop the sophistry.

I am here often enough but also Have an Interest in all kinds of conspiracy theories ... Do you think Im a nut ?

shedweller

Not sure if these are already posted. No graphic images.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jeroenakkermans/sets/

weisses

Dutch news confirming a rocket strike based on the black boxes

weisses

Interesting piece from the local perspective

http://m.europe.wsj.com/articles/after-flight-17-crash-agony-debris-and-heartbreak-in-ukraine-villages-1406335532?mobile=y

Jack1985

Cause of the MH17 crash was a ''massive explosive decompression as a result of multiple shrapnel perforations, after a rocket explosion'' - Dutch safety agency is expected to confirm shortly. A doctor talking about the news says he believed the majority of passengers would have been dead in seconds as a result of the immediate and ''immense'' pressure caused by decompression.

Meanwhile it's been suggested that not all bodies may be recovered and in the coffins recovered last week, ''were multiple parts of different bodies'' - Horrible to even think about. Separately, Ukrainian authorities have taken control of the crash site - Rebels have been pushed further into Donetsk region, International investigators and police from Australia and the Netherlands are now expected to be able to proceed to the ''multiple'' crash zones.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0728/633466-ukraine-mh17/

Tenger

weisses wrote: »

Interesting piece from the local perspective

http://m.europe.wsj.com/articles/after-flight-17-crash-agony-debris-and-heartbreak-in-ukraine-villages-1406335532?mobile=y

That's harsh for the locals. Very interesting insight as the focus will follow the crash victims and leave the locals to recover on their own.

Thanks for the link.

radar0976

Debris field analysis from the Wall Street Journal

http://graphics.wsj.com/mh17-crash-map/

radar0976

radar0976 wrote: »

Debris field analysis from the Wall Street Journal

Yeesh that's a fair scattering. Normal circumstances it would be OK but the fact they can't secure them makes it harder.

circular flexing

Willie Walsh says BA stopped flying over Eastern Ukraine in March

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/aug/01/british-airways-stopped-flights-ukraine-march-mh17

S.R.

Waiting for comments of those who tried to be smart in this and other threads.

lord lucan

You cite a site that's main contributors are conspiracy theorists and crackpots. I'm deleting your links and giving you a week off for ignoring the Mod instruction in this thread.

smurfjed

Lord Lucan, i did read that article as the link was in our emails, it rehashes all the same garbage that we had before, quoting the same sources, there is nothing new. Its also quite funny that it shows pictures of the A10 that contradicts their assumptions that the aircraft was shot down, not to mention the fact that they believe that the altitude limitation on the SU25 was due to pilot oxygen.....

I just noticed that Folbotcar wasn't too impressed with one of my previous messages...

You are a regular here not some conspiracy nut. Stop the sophistry.

Sorry about that, when i said Russian, i was thinking about Russian military and not Ethnic Russian. Of the 3 possible contenders to have launched the missile, my guess and thats all it is, goes for Ethnic Russian.

iradzen

from New Straits Time:

"KUALA LUMPUR: INTELLIGENCE analysts in the United States had already concluded that Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down by an air-to-air missile, and that the Ukrainian government had had something to do with it."

cannot post URLs, so omitted www

.nst.com.my/node/20961?d=1

lord lucan

iradzen wrote: »

from New Straits Time:

"KUALA LUMPUR: INTELLIGENCE analysts in the United States had already concluded that Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down by an air-to-air missile, and that the Ukrainian government had had something to do with it."

cannot post URLs, so omitted www

.nst.com.my/node/20961?d=1

That article is rehashing a story that appeared originally in the same publication that was quoted a few posts before which I subsequently deleted. It's not a reliable news source.

porsche959

lord lucan wrote: »

That article is rehashing a story that appeared originally in the same publication that was quoted a few posts before which I subsequently deleted. It's not a reliable news source.

The New Straits Times is a mainstream news media source.

Can you provide a list of news sources that you consider to be reliable?

lord lucan

porsche959 wrote: »

The New Straits Times is a mainstream news media source.

Can you provide a list of news sources that you consider to be reliable?

The new Strait TImes isn't the problem, it's the global research crowd they quote that are.

S.R.

Wow! :-)

http://rt.com/news/237961-ukraine-media-mh17-dutch/

lord lucan

S.R. wrote: »

Wow! :-)

http://rt.com/news/237961-ukraine-media-mh17-dutch/

Russia uses another avenue to have a pop at the Ukraine. Yawn.

InTheTrees

FoxNews.com and rt.com are two information outlets (you cant really call them "news") that I would never even click on.

S.R.

lord lucan wrote: »

Russia uses another avenue to have a pop at the Ukraine. Yawn.

And rightly so.
Beware of flies.

S.R.

InTheTrees wrote: »

FoxNews.com and rt.com are two information outlets (you cant really call them "news") that I would never even click on.

U right. RTE rules.

_Tombstone_

How MH17 and its passengers became victims of a distant war.

Haven't read it yet, but looks like a good recap/where things go from here article...

JCX BXC

Some sort of video realised today, it seems the rebels hadn't a clue and were very troubled that it was a civilian aircraft.

smurfjed

Fragments of a suspected Russian missile system have been found at the Flight MH17 crash site in eastern Ukraine, investigators say.
The joint team in the Netherlands says the parts, possibly from a Buk surface-to-air system, are "of particular interest" and could help determine who was involved in the crash.
But they say they have not proved a "causal connection" between the parts and the crash. MH17 crashed in an area held by pro-Russian rebels in July 2014, killing all 298 people on board.
Ukraine and many Western countries have accused pro-Russian rebels of shooting down the plane, saying they could have used a Buk missile system supplied by Russia.
Russia and the rebels deny any responsibility and say the Ukrainian military is to blame.
The joint investigation team comprises representatives of the Netherlands, Ukraine, Malaysia, Australia, the UK, US and Russia.

Taken them long enough to find these parts.

pfurey101

smurfjed wrote: »

Taken them long enough to find these parts.

I don't imagine they were being very casual about it. It's not the best of places to work in.....and these things take time also.

Checking every tiny bit of metal and fabric to try and determin where it came from.

mbur

smurfjed wrote: »

But they say they have not proved a "causal connection" between the parts and the crash. MH17 crashed in an area held by pro-Russian rebels in July 2014, killing all 298 people on board.

Taken them long enough to find these parts.

Oh sure, maybe there were some missile fragments already in the paddock where she went down???

fits

Satellite expert Zaaim Redha Abdul Rahman, who helped the UK satellite firm Inmarsat analyze data shortly after the plane went missing in March last year, said the plane probably made a soft landing on the water, floated for a while on the surface, and then sank mostly in one piece.
This is consistent with what other experts have said about the likely fate of the plane after new evidence emerged last month.
A piece of debris that was almost certainly part of MH370 suggests the aircraft may have glided along after running out of fuel and descended slowly into the water. A Boeing 777 flaperon washed up on Reunion Island near Madagascar in the Indian Ocean.
Former US National Transportation Safety Board investigator Greg Feith told Bloomberg that since the piece was not "crushed," experts could "deduce it was either a low-energy crash or a low-energy intentional ditching." https://en-maktoob.news.yahoo.com/ma...181820592.html

That is absolutely horrendous. And a horrendous thing to say with little proof as it implies that some of the passengers could have survived the landing. Which is pretty much the worst thing ever.

smurfjed

Fits... I think that you got the wrong topic....

fits

smurfjed wrote: »

Fits... I think that you got the wrong topic....

You are right i did. Sorry!

Sterling Archer

For anyone interested

Report
http://cdn.onderzoeksraad.nl/documents/report-mh17-crash-en.pdf
Video Report
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=249&v=iGm00TdqirY

smurfjed

It's an interesting report and I'm sure that if I read the topic in after hours they will already be calling it inconclusive or fake!

wil

smurfjed wrote: »

It's an interesting report and I'm sure that if I read the topic in after hours they will already be calling it inconclusive or fake!

The Russians are disputing the type of missile and where it originated from.
Claims it was an older type missile, no longer used and from Ukrainian controlled territory.
Dutch investigators seem to acknowledge but refute these claims.
They don't however attribute blame.

Also 160 flights were flying in that airspace that day, 61 operators from 32 countries. Ukraine had not closed airspace even though they knew but had restricted it to FL320

The obvious unanswered question is why MH17?
Sheer bad luck?

Did inexperienced separatists mistake the plane for a military one as is suggested by that early amateur video.
Ukraine suggests it was a planned downing by Russian operators, that separatists couldn't operate these missiles
To what end.

So i guess this report leaves us knowing as much as we did a year ago.

wil

wil wrote: »

So i guess this report leaves us knowing as much as we did a year ago.

More fool me. Apparently there is a separate criminal report due in February.

outsidein98

The Russians are lying. They learned quickly that if you lie often enough. It quickly become truth or at least appears plausible. They realise that in the west we tend to give equal weight to both sides. So they lie knowing it's a lie. The press not being free connive in the lie because it's either good for Russia or they dare not dissent.
It's the same with the bombing of Syria. They say they're bombing IS. But they're slaughtering all anti Assad opposition. If anyone objects they simply lie about it.
They quite cleverly have worked out how the Internet works. Lie,lie and lie and people will believe you. Simple reality is that a Russian supplied missile shot down a civilian airliner. The firers believed it was a Ukrainian military aircraft. They effed up but will never admit it.

pfurey101

outsidein98 wrote: »

The Russians are lying. They learned quickly that if you lie often enough. It quickly become truth or at least appears plausible. They realise that in the west we tend to give equal weight to both sides. So they lie knowing it's a lie. The press not being free connive in the lie because it's either good for Russia or they dare not dissent.
It's the same with the bombing of Syria. They say they're bombing IS. But they're slaughtering all anti Assad opposition. If anyone objects they simply lie about it.
They quite cleverly have worked out how the Internet works. Lie,lie and lie and people will believe you. Simple reality is that a Russian supplied missile shot down a civilian airliner. The firers believed it was a Ukrainian military aircraft. They effed up but will never admit it.

It's mad really, the Russians lying all the time and so many online assume the west (especially the Americans) are lying all the time.

It is indeed so much easier for Russia to keep the lies going, i.e. fear generation, threats and control. Yet the main reason why I do not believe the west lies (all the time) is that how the feck do you keep all involved quiet? We give our governments too much credit at times with being able to control and hide what so many accuse them of!

smurfjed

So the trolls wasted their time trying to prove that it was shot down by a fighter jet.