Malaysia Airlines plane shot down in Ukraine near Russian border[Mod warning post#193

christy c

Today's flight MH17 from AMS to KUL currently over Hungary. Must be a bit eerie for all onboard. I assume that they will be changing the flight number soon, airlines usually discontinue flight numbers where there have been fatalities

Stallingrad

Damning evidence here.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-28362872

Sully

Stallingrad wrote: »

Damning evidence here.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-28362872

Can they be trusted tho

There a dashcam video on link below, showing moment of impact. Pretty fecking scary watching that plane fall

Sorry, just read this video may not be from that crash at all.

Calina

Jake1 wrote: »

There a dashcam video on link below, showing moment of impact. Pretty fecking scary watching that plane fall

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAkunT8KpyI#t=25

Sorry, just read this video may not be from that crash at all.

It's not. That's footage of a 747 cargo crash in Afghanistan.

Calina

Calina wrote: »

It's not. That's footage of a 747 cargo crash in Afghanistan.

yes, I know that now, I did do an edit to reflect I was incorrect.

wretcheddomain

Jake1 wrote: »

yes, I know that now, I did do an edit to reflect I was incorrect.

Wouldn't it be better to delete the link altogether? Is that your YouTube account by any chance? :rolleyes:

wretcheddomain

wretcheddomain wrote: »

Wouldn't it be better to delete the link altogether? Is that your YouTube account by any chance? :rolleyes:

no it isnt, rolly eyes.
I put the link up in good faith. I did and immediate edit to reflect i was wrong. Move on.

rainbowtrout

Jake1 wrote: »

There a dashcam video on link below, showing moment of impact. Pretty fecking scary watching that plane fall

Sorry, just read this video may not be from that crash at all.

It's not that crash was in Afghanistan. I saw that video a few months ago.

billie1b

Jake1 wrote: »

no it isnt, rolly eyes.
I put the link up in good faith. I did and immediate edit to reflect i was wrong. Move on.

Just delete it and move on yourself, totally ridiculous, trying to get clicks from such a tragedy

Jack1985

sin_city wrote: »

you wouldn’t know…your head is in the sand

I may have my head in the sand in your view, but yours is clearly far up nutter alley.

billie1b

billie1b wrote: »

Just delete it and move on yourself, totally ridiculous, trying to get clicks from such a tragedy

I dont know what your problem was. Ive deleted link.

Sully

Malaysia Airlines has updated the list of nationalities of those on the plane, increasing the number of Dutch nationals from 173 to 189. There were also 44 passengers from Malaysia, 27 from Australia, 12 from Indonesia, nine from the UK, four from Belgium, four from Germany, three from the Philippines, one from Canada and one from New Zealand. Four passengers' nationalities still need to be verified.

Bob the Builder

Ukrainian airspace today:

rainbowtrout

christy c wrote: »

Today's flight MH17 from AMS to KUL currently over Hungary. Must be a bit eerie for all onboard. I assume that they will be changing the flight number soon, airlines usually discontinue flight numbers where there have been fatalities

Ya I was looking at it on Flight Radar, it's flying over the Black Sea. Looks like it will continue over Turkey and Iran/Iraq.

sully2010

Watching Sky news there showing that several airlines passed that route regularly before this disaster, Singapore airlines and many more, even on the same day. None being shot down.

The picture below, I do find interesting, a lot of similarities and Putins private jet and he has apparently flown near there on jaunts back from South America. I certainly wouldn't be ruling out the Ukrainians to have had something to do with this. They were very quick out of the box blaming the Russians too.

Calina

I am not convinced.

I mean, it was cruising at 33,000 feet. Lots of planes over fly Ireland at that height and I'm pretty sure you'd be hard pressed to see the livery on them, particularly if it was cloudy. I mean, already at 15000 feet its getting hard.

I also honestly don't think the Ukraine would be dumb enough to guarantee themselves a full-on invasion. And, above all else, they were fast enough to release the news that the plane had crashed. Previously, denials have been far higher up the agenda when there's been an accidental shootdown.

Sully

sully2010 wrote: »

Watching Sky news there showing that several airlines passed that route regularly before this disaster, Singapore airlines and many more, even on the same day. None being shot down.

The picture below, I do find interesting, a lot of similarities and Putins private jet and he has apparently flown near there on jaunts back from South America. I certainly wouldn't be ruling out the Ukrainians to have had something to do with this. They were very quick out of the box blaming the Russians too.

At 30k feet, I can't see how you could spot what the plane looked like?

knucklehead6

Calina wrote: »

I am not convinced.

I mean, it was cruising at 33,000 feet. Lots of planes over fly Ireland at that height and I'm pretty sure you'd be hard pressed to see the livery on them, particularly if it was cloudy. I mean, already at 15000 feet its getting hard.

I also honestly don't think the Ukraine would be dumb enough to guarantee themselves a full-on invasion. And, above all else, they were fast enough to release the news that the plane had crashed. Previously, denials have been far higher up the agenda when there's been an accidental shootdown.

Add to the fact that the IL-96 has 4 engines, the B777 has 2.

If they were close enough to mix up the liveries, they'd have been close enough to notice the discrepancy in engines.

Jack1985

Exactly. The Ukranians aren't going to blow out of the sky Putin's jet and guarantee slaughter in Kiev and throughout Ukraine. This is simply, trigger happy f*cking idiots who really at heart are unemployable murders basking as saviours killing there own countrymen in support of a country who armed them with the weapons involved in this disaster. It's clear Russia's hands are all over this, whether or not they fired it is actually irrelevant now. Putin's comments have done his country zero favours this morning and If I'm honest I can actually see the Russian's using this accident as a reason to cut of the rebels, the whole involvement of the Russians in Ukraine has been bad news for the Russian economy and this disaster is further testament to the choices Osama bin Putin has made. Hopefully I'm not off topic, but Ukraine and Russia definitely relevant in this.

Stallingrad

There is lots of juicy stuff in this for the conspiracy theorists, but the idea that the Ukranians would try to shoot down Putins jet is comical.

Calina

Jack1985 wrote: »

Exactly. The Ukranians aren't going to blow out of the sky Putin's jet and guarantee slaughter in Kiev and throughout Ukraine. This is simply, trigger happy f*cking idiots who really at heart are unemployable murders basking as saviours killing there own countrymen in support of a country who armed them with the weapons involved in this disaster. It's clear Russia's hands are all over this, whether or not they fired it is actually irrelevant now. Putin's comments have done his country zero favours this morning and If I'm honest I can actually see the Russian's using this accident as a reason to cut of the rebels, the whole involvement of the Russians in Ukraine has been bad news for the Russian economy and this disaster is further testament to the choices Osama bin Putin has made. Hopefully I'm not off topic, but Ukraine and Russia definitely relevant in this.

I think that's really an overly simplistic way of looking at this. Also, being frank, it helps no one to try and be funny with sobriquets like Osama bin Putin.

Here's the question I'd like to see answered: when are we next going to see the leader of the separatists? Ultimately, I have no doubt but that they are being, supported, for want of a better word; but the support will be conditional on their activities supporting the interests of their supporters. Now, honestly speaking, is this fiasco in anyone's interests? I doubt it. So what does that do to any support they might be getting? It'll be adding significantly more conditions.

Putin's comments this morning suggest they know who was responsible for this and they know it was not the Ukraine. Otherwise, they'd have straight blamed the Ukraine for the crash. Instead, they blamed them for the dispute running in the territory.

Additionally, a photograph of the flight recorders would be useful - prior to that I do not believe they've been found.

irishgeo

interesting to see what happens when the UN meet,especially with the Russians having a veto as well.

sully2010

Sully wrote: »

At 30k feet, I can't see how you could spot what the plane looked like?

Quite easy with a pair of binoculars

Jack1985

DoFA are investigation if an Irish woman from Dublin was on the flight. Among the known casualties was also an Irish-Australian nun, Philomena Tiernan. RIP.

martinsvi

sully2010 wrote: »

Watching Sky news there showing that several airlines passed that route regularly before this disaster, Singapore airlines and many more, even on the same day. None being shot down.

The picture below, I do find interesting, a lot of similarities and Putins private jet and he has apparently flown near there on jaunts back from South America. I certainly wouldn't be ruling out the Ukrainians to have had something to do with this. They were very quick out of the box blaming the Russians too.

an official at Vnukovo airport said Putin's plane has been avoiding Ukrainian airspace for months, do you honestly think he would be stupid enough to fly over the troubled area knowing what gadgets both sides down below could have?

sully2010

martinsvi wrote: »

an official at Vnukovo airport said Putin's plane has been avoiding Ukrainian airspace for months, do you honestly think he would be stupid enough to fly over the troubled area knowing what gadgets both sides down below could have?

Absolutely not no, that's why I said near there. My main point was the similarity of the 2 aircraft and fact loads of other airlines flew that route and didn't get shot down.

allthedoyles

This was heat seeking missile , so what happens if 2 planes are on flight path , and a missile is fired ?

Which does it aim at ?

knucklehead6

allthedoyles wrote: »

This was heat seeking missile , so what happens if 2 planes are on flight path , and a missile is fired ?

Which does it aim at ?

i'd doubt very much it was a heat seeker.

srsly78

allthedoyles wrote: »

This was heat seeking missile , so what happens if 2 planes are on flight path , and a missile is fired ?

Which does it aim at ?

Radar guided, not heat seeking. The missile homes in on target that is being illuminated by targeting radar.

sully2010

allthedoyles wrote: »

This was heat seeking missile , so what happens if 2 planes are on flight path , and a missile is fired ?

Which does it aim at ?

If it was a BUK missile as claimed it is radar guided.

Simon Gruber Says

allthedoyles wrote: »

This was heat seeking missile , so what happens if 2 planes are on flight path , and a missile is fired ?

Which does it aim at ?

Reports said the BUK system is radar guided, so it would track a target by its radar signature

martinsvi

sully2010 wrote: »

Absolutely not no, that's why I said near there. My main point was the similarity of the 2 aircraft and fact loads of other airlines flew that route and didn't get shot down.

looks couldn't have played any role in this, it's a radar guided missile, they didn't have to aim visually. Other aircraft might have passed the same route, this one got unlucky.

allthedoyles wrote: »

This was heat seeking missile , so what happens if 2 planes are on flight path , and a missile is fired ?

Which does it aim at ?

no, heat seeking missiles have much smaller range, this was a radar guided BUK

Stallingrad

allthedoyles wrote: »

This was heat seeking missile , so what happens if 2 planes are on flight path , and a missile is fired ?

Which does it aim at ?

This was a BUK radar controlled missile, much more complex than your average shoulder mounted heat seeker. If it was captured by militants I am amazed they would know how to use it without help, which once again implies Russian involvement.

gordongekko

Bob the Builder wrote: »

Ukrainian airspace today:

Would love to see the same airspace this day last week.

fits

Quick update, my friend flew to kul via Paris, and on to Indonesia, so she is fine thank goodness. Just got a message from her. She hadn't heard about the crash.

P_1

fits wrote: »

Quick update, my friend flew to kul via Paris, and on to Indonesia, so she is fine thank goodness. Just got a message from her. She hadn't heard about the crash.

Glad to hear that, must be a weight off you.

Calina

Flight recorders found by Ukrainian emergency services per Interfax via RTE, report at 13.02 today. http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0718/631606-malaysia-airlines-ukraine/

crosstownk

Jack1985 wrote: »

DoFA are investigation if an Irish woman from Dublin was on the flight.

A friend of mine claims to have known a woman from Dublin on MH17 who may have been travelling on an Australian passport.

AdMMM

Would the plane have been equipped with any system that would have detected the radar missile lock and been able to take any action? Or would it have been completely by surprise?

MuffinsDa

AdMMM wrote: »

Would the plane have been equipped with any system that would have detected the radar missile lock and been able to take any action? Or would it have been completely by surprise?

Common (civilian) airliners-with the exception of El Al fleet- do not have any detection systems for this sort of thing.

kravmaga

AdMMM wrote: »

Would the plane have been equipped with any system that would have detected the radar missile lock and been able to take any action? Or would it have been completely by surprise?

If yo look at the BUK SA11 missile system which is alleged to have been used to shoot down the aircraft, they are 16 feet in height and travel as 2,800mph approx, no civilian aircraft would have had time to avoid an impact.

See Janes defence website for spec.
http://www.janes.com/article/40907/missile-profile-9k37-buk

http://www.janes.com/article/40907/missile-profile-9k37-buk

sully2010

The coincidences on this crash are eerie(I'm not suggesting any conspiracy theories whatsoever, just pointing them out.)

MH 17 - Crashed on the 17/07/2014

crosstownk

From RTÉ http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0718/631606-malaysia-airlines-ukraine/

One of the passengers on board MH17 was an Irishwoman who had been living in Australia.

The woman, aged in her 50s, was living in Perth in western Australia. She had two children.

Originally from Lucan in Dublin, the woman was returning to Australia from Ireland.

smurfjed

The airway runs in a south east direction, if Putin happened to be on an aircraft in that area, wouldn't it make sense for that aircraft to be heading north east ?

MadYaker

I can't imagine the flight recorders will give much useful information here?

e92335i

I do a fair bit of travel to that side of the world, its genuinely scary that this could happen. Agree with above poster, not sure how much can be gained from the black box aside from exact time of impact.

pfurey101

sully2010 wrote: »

The coincidences on this crash are eerie(I'm not suggesting any conspiracy theories whatsoever, just pointing them out.)

MH 17 - Crashed on the 17/07/2014

Mad alright - the world does throw up some mad number wobblers at times. And that's normally enough to get some people going.

andy_g

e92335i wrote: »

I do a fair bit of travel to that side of the world, its genuinely scary that this could happen. Agree with above poster, not sure how much can be gained from the black box aside from exact time of impact.

They will get time of impact, proof of impact of a in-flight object etc theres a lot of information the boxes will contain.

donvito99

Worth a watch/listen. The absurdity of one of their purported excuses is harrowing.