Should I breed from my dog?

muddypaws

Knine wrote: »

Doubtful really? I would safely say there are far more entire males around then unspayed bitches.

I can also say sadly that there have been far too many young males of my favourite breed who did not see age 5 because they were neutered early in life!

The OP has not had any problems to date with his dog.

I have a lot of dogs. The dogs that are done (males) just do not have the drive, coat or stamina of their entire companions. They would still mate a bitch too.

Thats your experience, and I respect that, but I also have neutered males that do still have excellent working drive and stamina, and their coats haven't changed. In fact one of my boys has too much working drive, and I do wish neutering had taken some of it out of him :rolleyes:

Knine

muddypaws wrote: »

Thats your experience, and I respect that, but I also have neutered males that do still have excellent working drive and stamina, and their coats haven't changed. In fact one of my boys has too much working drive, and I do wish neutering had taken some of it out of him :rolleyes:

Certain breeds are much more prone to coat changes then others - collies, spaniels, wire coated, retrievers. Their coats can be come very woolly afterwards. People often say their dogs coat did not change but are then surprised when they see the coat on an non altered dog.

Many terrier or gundog breeds can't be hand stripped afterwards. There is no comparison between a hand stripped example of a breed & one who has been clipped.

It is important I believe that people see both pros & cons.

Neutering is great for certain situations such as rescues, behaviour issues etc but if a dog is well adjusted, well behaved pet then I personally would leave it entire. I am talking about males here. Bitches are imo worse to manage then the dogs! In fact if someone comes to me starting out showing I always recommend they start with a dog!

DBB

26sdrawkcab wrote: »

I have 2 miniature dachshund puppies and they appear to have reached sexual maturity early, they're not 6 months old yet. They try to hump each other at least once a day and would be carrying on in other ways so once they reach 6 months old I'm going to have a chat with our vet and see what he thinks.

Your other concerns aside for a moment 26sdrawkcab, puppies humping is not really a sign that they're becoming sexually mature early, it's more of an exploratory motor pattern that they often go through as part of their nomal behavioural development.
I just wanted to say this in case it helps you make a decision! I *think*, if I owned a dax, I'd be doing more research in case their back problems can be exacerbated by early neutering... I'm not saying it can, you understand, but we do know that early neutering can result in problem with joints, and irregular growth patterns.

borderlinemeath

Benson is the wooliest setter I've ever seen, but he had mange and clumps of his hair fell out with it. His groomer said he was neutered too soon after it without any chance of his coat growing back properly at all. You can see it in this pic and while Coco is also neutered, we didn't get her done til she was 4.

Whispered

Knine wrote: »

Neutering is great for certain situations such as rescues, behaviour issues etc but if a dog is well adjusted, well behaved pet then I personally would leave it entire. I am talking about males here. Bitches are imo worse to manage then the dogs! In fact if someone comes to me starting out showing I always recommend they start with a dog!

I would agree to a point.

If I was doing it again and didn't have a rehoming contract I'd leave the dog until older. Harley was done at 6 months and is an anxious boy and can be reactive when other dogs are anxious too. (He met an entire rottie recently, a very self assured fella and there was absolutely no issue). I'm not purely putting it down to early neutering as he had a few things go against him which could make him the anxious fella he is, but I'm sure it didn't help.

However, I would still consider getting it done a bit later. Even with two neutered males I can see the change in them when around a bitch in heat. If they go to the kennels, I can tell when they come back if one of his bitches is in heat by their behaviour. The bitch next door recently had her first heat and it was tough for both of them.

I can see your point, I think you have to consider the fact that many people would not have the know how and experience, and in some cases the cop on, to handle the issues that can come with an unneutered dog, as you do. I'd rather see "the general public" (including myself in there) do it rather than not do it. When (wishful thinking) we have the total overbreeding of dogs under control I think it's something that should definitely be more widely discussed by vets, owners, rescues etc. But for now I feel it's a good idea to keep/make neutering the norm.

As an aside, can anyone in rescue tell me; say I was adopting a dog from you and I mentioned that neutering was fine, but I'd rather wait until after a year, would you accept that? What if you had a perfect home lined up but the new owner was reluctant to neuter at all, for the reasons Knine mentioned, would you still consider it?

Nody

Whispered wrote: »

As an aside, can anyone in rescue tell me; say I was adopting a dog from you and I mentioned that neutering was fine, but I'd rather wait until after a year, would you accept that? What if you had a perfect home lined up but the new owner was reluctant to neuter at all, for the reasons Knine mentioned, would you still consider it?

I think all the contracts I've seen has stated that neutering is mandatory (and in many cases they come neutered in the first place). An experienced dog owner may be allowed as an exception but look at it from a rescue point of view what person is more likely to want an uneutered dog? A BY breeder or someone at Knine's level of knowledge (because once someone has that level of knowledge chances are they want a pure breed with proper health checks, papers etc.)?

borderlinemeath

Puppies are adopted out of rescues with contracts for neutering/spaying at a certain age so you might be able to get an extentsion on a contract with perhaps the agreement of the rescue vet who will ensure the neutering is one as per contract but perhaps by 2 years of age rather than the 6 months that a lot of rescues stipulate. I think you would have to overwhelmingly prove that you were a responsible owner and that it was the dogs health interests at heart.

muddypaws

Knine wrote: »

Certain breeds are much more prone to coat changes then others - collies, spaniels, wire coated, retrievers. Their coats can be come very woolly afterwards. People often say their dogs coat did not change but are then surprised when they see the coat on an non altered dog.

Many terrier or gundog breeds can't be hand stripped afterwards. There is no comparison between a hand stripped example of a breed & one who has been clipped.

It is important I believe that people see both pros & cons.

I have heard that about the coat from a number of sources, and completely accept the point.

Whispered wrote: »

I would agree to a point.

If I was doing it again and didn't have a rehoming contract I'd leave the dog until older. Harley was done at 6 months and is an anxious boy and can be reactive when other dogs are anxious too. (He met an entire rottie recently, a very self assured fella and there was absolutely no issue). I'm not purely putting it down to early neutering as he had a few things go against him which could make him the anxious fella he is, but I'm sure it didn't help.

However, I would still consider getting it done a bit later. Even with two neutered males I can see the change in them when around a bitch in heat. If they go to the kennels, I can tell when they come back if one of his bitches is in heat by their behaviour. The bitch next door recently had her first heat and it was tough for both of them.

I can see your point, I think you have to consider the fact that many people would not have the know how and experience, and in some cases the cop on, to handle the issues that can come with an unneutered dog, as you do. I'd rather see "the general public" (including myself in there) do it rather than not do it. When (wishful thinking) we have the total overbreeding of dogs under control I think it's something that should definitely be more widely discussed by vets, owners, rescues etc. But for now I feel it's a good idea to keep/make neutering the norm.

As an aside, can anyone in rescue tell me; say I was adopting a dog from you and I mentioned that neutering was fine, but I'd rather wait until after a year, would you accept that? What if you had a perfect home lined up but the new owner was reluctant to neuter at all, for the reasons Knine mentioned, would you still consider it?

It is a hard one, as I was getting dogs neutered before rehoming at an early age, but then waiting with my own dogs. Unfortunately though, unless I knew the person extremely well, and down to the fact that people lie alot when it comes to rescue dogs, I'd have to say no. The other thing to consider I guess, and it depends how broad your shoulders are, if other rescues find out you're rehoming un-neutered dogs, watch your back!

Although, some dogs can't be neutered for medical reasons, so its not unheard of, I wonder how well managed those adoptions are.

DBB

Whispered wrote: »

What if you had a perfect home lined up but the new owner was reluctant to neuter at all, for the reasons Knine mentioned, would you still consider it?

For me, under those terms alone, it'd be a non-runner. I think most rescues make it clear to potential adopters that the dog *will* be neutered prior to rehoming, so the potential adopter knows that them's the roolz before they ever begin the process. It simply doesn't happen that they get to change the rules in the middle of the process. They come to you accepting the T&Cs in advance.

As for wanting to wait til the dog was 1 yr old, this could only arise with people who get puppies or sub-adults. In my case at least, and I know not all rescues have this luxury, I would only adopt a pup out to a very trusted adopter, often one who had adopted from me before. We pre-agree a date by which the pup must be done, and a contract signed to that effect.

There are occasions where older dogs aren't neutered... They might be too old or have a medical condition that surgery would be an unacceptable risk. But by and large the people who adopt these dogs are fundamentally not the type to let them out to sow their oats anyway!

Whispered

muddypaws wrote: »

The other thing to consider I guess, and it depends how broad your shoulders are, if other rescues find out you're rehoming un-neutered dogs, watch your back!
.

I never even thought of that!

DBB wrote: »

As for wanting to wait til the dog was 1 yr old, this could only arise with people who get puppies or sub-adults. In my case at least, and I know not all rescues have this luxury, I would only adopt a pup out to a very trusted adopter, often one who had adopted from me before. We pre-agree a date by which the pup must be done, and a contract signed to that effect.

You can't say fairer than that really.

kylith

Knine wrote: »

I have a lot of dogs. The dogs that are done (males) just do not have the drive, coat or stamina of their entire companions. They would still mate a bitch too.

But does that actually matter a damn for the regular, everyday, owner on the street who will not be working or showing their dog? If you walk your dog for, say, an hour a day then it's of no consequence to you that he's not able to go for 4 hours? If you don't plan on showing him then what does it matter if his coat isn't 100% as per breed spec? For me, certainly, getting a bit woolly wouldn't be a reason for me not to neuter. Not when the possible downsides of not neutering include unwanted puppies, straying, and testicular cancer.

Frigga_92

DBB wrote: »

Your other concerns aside for a moment 26sdrawkcab, puppies humping is not really a sign that they're becoming sexually mature early, it's more of an exploratory motor pattern that they often go through as part of their nomal behavioural development.
I just wanted to say this in case it helps you make a decision! I *think*, if I owned a dax, I'd be doing more research in case their back problems can be exacerbated by early neutering... I'm not saying it can, you understand, but we do know that early neutering can result in problem with joints, and irregular growth patterns.

Ah okay, I was seeing it as possible sexual maturity. I've never had a dog that humps so I just don't know much about it.

I've done a bit of reading about the back problems and growth problems associated with neutering so that's obviously one of the big factors for me and something I'll chat to the vet about. No rush anyway as I've no concerns about them getting near a bitch in heat.

boomerang

As an aside, can anyone in rescue tell me; say I was adopting a dog from you and I mentioned that neutering was fine, but I'd rather wait until after a year, would you accept that? What if you had a perfect home lined up but the new owner was reluctant to neuter at all, for the reasons Knine mentioned, would you still consider it?[/quote]

No, I wouldn't take the risk of aan accidental litter in the interim and who is to say you might change your mind and decide against neutering altogether.

Have a male and female westie that I didn't want to breed from. Vet recommended neutering bitch, as doing the dog could lead to prostate problems in later life.

Tranceypoo

Knine wrote: »

Doubtful really? I would safely say there are far more entire males around then unspayed bitches.

I can also say sadly that there have been far too many young males of my favourite breed who did not see age 5 because they were neutered early in life!

The OP has not had any problems to date with his dog.

I have a lot of dogs. The dogs that are done (males) just do not have the drive, coat or stamina of their entire companions. They would still mate a bitch too.

I wasn't really commenting on whether the OP should have his dog neutered or not (I think there's arguments on both sides, as long as he's not breeding), just on your comment about most people have spayed females, that is absolutely 100% not my experience where I live now, where I lived before and in the context of meeting people on fundraising days and events for the rescue I volunteer for. Would that it were!

DBB

Deleted User wrote: »

Have a male and female westie that I didn't want to breed from. Vet recommended neutering bitch, as doing the dog could lead to prostate problems in later life.

If I had a male and a female dog, and only wanted to get one of them neutered, I'd absolutely get the female done!
There are more health problems associated with leaving a female intact compared to leaving a male intact, and in any case, asking even a neutered male to live with an in-heat female can lead to a lot of stress for the male... when a neutered male is living right under the nose of an in-heat female, they often still get the urges (somewhat watered down, but there all the same), I presume because even in the absence of testicles, testosterone continues to be produced in small quantities by the adrenal medulla.
Some prostate problems are associated with neutering the male, and some prostate problems are associated with not neutering the male, so again it's a bit of a cost-benefit analysis for the owner. As long as the decision is a well-informed one, then the owner is doing a good job