Letting agent refusing part 4 tenancy

banjopaul

Hi all, just looking for some advice.

Living in a rented house with friends, all of us named on the lease. We are just coming to the end of our 12 month contract which expires on august 1st. The letting agent has contacted us asking us to sign new leases for another 12 months. We were also informed of a small, fair, rent increase by letter two weeks ago.

Anyway we told the letting agent that we want to move to a part 4 tenancy, as we believe we are legally entitled to. They first claimed they had never heard of this at all, and we sent them a link to the citizens information page about it, they told us that the page was wrong.

I have a feeling they want us to sign another lease as it gets then commission or something..

Anyway can anyone confirm that we are in the right? And if so help me find evidence that I can use to prove it to them.

Thanks on advance!

Pawwed Rig

Hi

See this link
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2004/en/act/pub/0027/
Scroll down to part 4 and have a look at the 7 chapters. It is reasonably technical language but relatively easy to understand. Any questions just post back here

banjopaul

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/types_of_tenancy.html

This is the page we linked them to.

guscon

Claiming a Part 4 tenancy at the end of a lease
If you have a fixed-term contract or lease (for example of 1 year) and you wish to remain in the property under the rights acquired under Part 4, you must notify your landlord of your intention to stay in the property BETWEEN 3 MONTHS AND 1 MONTH before the expiry of your fixed–term tenancy or lease agreement. You can use this sample letter of notification to remain in the property under Part 4.

If you do not notify your landlord you cannot be refused coverage under Part 4 but you may have to compensate the landlord for any financial loss she/he has incurred because you did not notify him/her of your intention to remain in the tenancy.

Did ya manage to notify them before the 1st of July?

BigCOB

Have you submit the official written notice? It is norm to have this done, in writing, up to 3 months before the lease and and no less than one month before the lease ends, although this is not really a legal requirement. As long as your rent is not in arrears and the property is not in a poor state because of you guys, then the landlord would have to agree. Threshold can help you out on this front though if there are any issues. Normally letting agents will get fees on a yearly basis and landlords sometimes don't like having long term tenants on site. Go for it, challenge them on it, but make it official now, contact threshold.

banjopaul

guscon wrote: »

Claiming a Part 4 tenancy at the end of a lease
If you have a fixed-term contract or lease (for example of 1 year) and you wish to remain in the property under the rights acquired under Part 4, you must notify your landlord of your intention to stay in the property BETWEEN 3 MONTHS AND 1 MONTH before the expiry of your fixed–term tenancy or lease agreement. You can use this sample letter of notification to remain in the property under Part 4.

If you do not notify your landlord you cannot be refused coverage under Part 4 but you may have to compensate the landlord for any financial loss she/he has incurred because you did not notify him/her of your intention to remain in the tenancy.

Did ya manage to notify them before the 1st of July?

No but from my reading of what you said they still can't refuse due to that. And haven't incurred any costs as they were getting us to sign new contracts, and haven't advertised the place.

shruikan2553

guscon wrote: »

Claiming a Part 4 tenancy at the end of a lease
If you have a fixed-term contract or lease (for example of 1 year) and you wish to remain in the property under the rights acquired under Part 4, you must notify your landlord of your intention to stay in the property BETWEEN 3 MONTHS AND 1 MONTH before the expiry of your fixed–term tenancy or lease agreement. You can use this sample letter of notification to remain in the property under Part 4.

If you do not notify your landlord you cannot be refused coverage under Part 4 but you may have to compensate the landlord for any financial loss she/he has incurred because you did not notify him/her of your intention to remain in the tenancy.

Did ya manage to notify them before the 1st of July?

Even if they didn't, going by the second part means that they are entitled to it anyway, they just have to pay any costs for advertising which I doubt is an issue due to them being asked to sign a new lease

BigCOB

guscon wrote: »

If you do not notify your landlord you cannot be refused coverage under Part 4 but you may have to compensate the landlord for any financial loss she/he has incurred because you did not notify him/her of your intention to remain in the tenancy.

Potentially you may be liable for the letting agent fees he may have incurred....

guscon

banjopaul wrote: »

No but from my reading of what you said they still can't refuse due to that. And haven't incurred any costs as they were getting us to sign new contracts, and haven't advertised the place.

Ya would look like ye can still apply for it, can't imagine they could come up with too many costs they would have incurred. Would be interesting to hear from someone who has got Part 4 tenancy before. Also let us know what Threshold comes back to you with.

Any idea about rent reviews during the 4 year term?

banjopaul

guscon wrote: »

Ya would look like ye can still apply for it, can't imagine they could come up with too many costs they would have incurred. Would be interesting to hear from someone who has got Part 4 tenancy before. Also let us know what Threshold comes back to you with.

Any idea about rent reviews during the 4 year term?

I think they can review the rent once every 12 months. And since we've already been given a notice of rent increase I think they can't raise again for 12 months, although not positive on this as we haven't started paying at the new rate yet.

Pawwed Rig

banjopaul wrote: »

I think they can review the rent once every 12 months. And since we've already been given a notice of rent increase I think they can't raise again for 12 months, although not positive on this as we haven't started paying at the new rate yet.

That is correct

odds_on

banjopaul wrote: »

I think they can review the rent once every 12 months. And since we've already been given a notice of rent increase I think they can't raise again for 12 months, although not positive on this as we haven't started paying at the new rate yet.

They have advised you of a rent increase which you have accepted (or not disputed). Therefore they cannot increase the rent for another 12 months.

I doubt if they would be able to prove any costs - which might include their costs of drawing up a new fixed term agreement but not much else.

Just stay where you are (as you are entitle to do) and do all communications in writing (keeping a copy).

The_Conductor

Note- typically Part 4 tenancies (particularly in in-demand areas) command a significant rent premium to fixed term leases. If you are not going to use a fixed-term-lease to bargain down the monthly rent (in return for signing the contract)- be prepared for a higher monthly rent..........

butterworth

The_Conductor wrote: »

Note- typically Part 4 tenancies (particularly in in-demand areas) command a significant rent premium to fixed term leases. If you are not going to use a fixed-term-lease to bargain down the monthly rent (in return for signing the contract)- be prepared for a higher monthly rent..........

Housemate to banjopaul chiming in. As was mentioned above we'd already been notified, and accepted, a modest rent increase, so the rent can't be increased again for another 12 months. What happens after 12 months is anyone's guess, but regardless any rent increase would have to be in line with current market rates.

Personally I think we're in the clear with this one. When I spoke to the letting agent his main reasoning for signing a new fixed term agreement was that they are 'required to keep up-to-date leases'. Perhaps so, but everything I've read has indicated that they certainly don't have to be fixed term leases.

shruikan2553

If I was you and planning to stay the year(might be able to manage a shorter lease) I would do as The Conductor said, increase or lease. If they are increasing the rent now you have nothing to gain from signing a lease.

L1011

banjopaul wrote: »

I have a feeling they want us to sign another lease as it gets then commission or something..

Absolutely the case. I'd suggest mentioning contacting the PRSA to them; they don't particularly like stupid (if they really don't know what a Part 4) or duplicitous, scheming agents.

Thomas D

Just ignore them. You don't need their permission.

Pawwed Rig

MYOB wrote: »

I'd suggest mentioning contacting the PRSA to them; they don't particularly like stupid (if they really don't know what a Part 4) or duplicitous, scheming agents.

I assume you meant the PRTB as I am not sure what your pension fund could do about the situation:D


sorry couldn't resist

usernamegoes

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I assume you meant the PRTB as I am not sure what your pension fund could do about the situation:D


sorry couldn't resist

Actually, I think he means the PSRA.

Pawwed Rig

usernamegoes wrote: »

Actually, I think he means the PSRA.

Ah right, that makes sense

banjopaul

Hi all,

Thanks again for all the advice, was very helpful. The letting agents eventually backed down:

" As per your email below I can confirm that your last lease conditions will stand and both parties will be required to give the adequate notice as per the residential tenancy act 2004. "

So great result overall.