Beef General Thread

Bullocks

Would it be tearing the arse out of it to leave the calf say 11 months sucking the cow ? Or are they better off standing on their own two feet early and getting everything they need from grass .
The father rang the last day to say one of the cows calfed but her "weanling " was still sucking her ! When I went down to separate them her calf and last calf sucking her from either side and there didn't seem to be any loss on the newborn ( just hoping the bainne bui was good enough for him ) or the cow either but she is a milky aa x .
Just wondering do ye find better weight gain in early weaned calfs that get a bit of nuts or lads that are left on the cow a good 8/9 months if not longer

Charliebull

Bullocks wrote: »

Would it be tearing the arse out of it to leave the calf say 11 months sucking the cow ? Or are they better off standing on their own two feet early and getting everything they need from grass .
The father rang the last day to say one of the cows calfed but her "weanling " was still sucking her ! When I went down to separate them her calf and last calf sucking her from either side and there didn't seem to be any loss on the newborn ( just hoping the bainne bui was good enough for him ) or the cow either but she is a milky aa x .
Just wondering do ye find better weight gain in early weaned calfs that get a bit of nuts or lads that are left on the cow a good 8/9 months if not longer

i would say it depends on a few things really

1. amount of milk cow has
2. Quality of grass available

cow struggling with milk the you are far better off weaning the calf and going to grass with meal

if cow still has a good bag of milk then its debatable, seen before where some of the so called experts maintain that a calf gets fcuk all from milk after 6 months

sandydan

Bullocks wrote: »

Its alright to build covers for this time of year but on farms like ours that are typically wet if the weather gets bad it will be walked into the ground and ran out their arses . Its also not an option to let them strip graze for a few hours and back to the shed to avoid poaching like a dairy farmer as I'm just not around .

a few dairy farmers i know switched from strip grazing to 24 or 36 hr paddock with separate entry and exit points a few years ago to combat poaching on black ground, as well it ended the problem of grass at end of large fields being strip grazed, being just that much too strong for quality milk production. as well when i switched from dairying i found that when checking for bulling the problem of cows expecting fresh grass 2 or 3 times daily was was eliminated along with the trampled grass just behind strip wire. i haven't converted to scrapping the topper or baling surplus paddocks yet(need practice at admiring scrawny grass),as surrounded by dairymen. however the practice of shopkeepers and successful business men buying farms with surplus cash and putting it as costs against their business to dodge tax imo and regarding it as money in bank for future is not confined to midlands and city suburbs and may well be the subject of some of the newspapers remarks.

sandydan

Charliebull wrote: »

i would say it depends on a few things really

1. amount of milk cow has
2. Quality of grass available

cow struggling with milk the you are far better off weaning the calf and going to grass with meal

if cow still has a good bag of milk then its debatable, seen before where some of the so called experts maintain that a calf gets fcuk all from milk after 6 months

i had one yearling who started back sucking cow along with baby calf, made mighty animal of him alright but as an elderly neighbour predicted, or maybe just coincidence, cow didn't go back in calf. she was bulled alright but never jumped on another animal until dry,despite bull in field with them, i dry off cows by housing with plenty straw for cows in October regardless ( noisy 10 days), a few cows i checked, their milk is like water imo at this stage anyway

just do it

sandydan wrote: »

a few cows i checked, their milk is like water imo at this stage anyway

Stands to reason. On the grass vs silage thread the dairy boys note milk solids drop back on autumn grass and cows need supplementation to keep up milk quality.

Bullocks

just do it wrote: »

Stands to reason. On the grass vs silage thread the dairy boys note milk solids drop back on autumn grass and cows need supplementation to keep up milk quality.

I hear you but the dairy cows would be throwing out a fair few litres more than a weanling would be pulling off its mother . She shouldn't be under much pressure at all compared to her dairy sister .

Farmer Pudsey

freedominacup wrote: »

I don't understand your point on building covers. When drought starts to bite is always around the time second cut is being taken. Grass is growing strongly until it isn't. Last year and this we fed bales within a fortnight of baling the last paddock surpluses.

He's wrong about the high covers also. We decided not to bale two large paddocks in early July and graze them instead, huge mistake they're not right since. Covers built in the back end remain leafy there's no imperative within the plants physiology for it to do anything else. In early/mid summer as soon as the plant is stressed it starts to head and once that happens utilisation plummets. Stressed paddocks can start to head out at covers well under 1000kg. If I'm ever in that situation again I'll be baling regardless of drought or forecasts.

In dairying that is grand as milk produced off ration is still profitable. However with beef any weighted gained by ration in general is not profitable. That is not to say that targeted meal feeding is not a good idea as it may allow you to increase grade or target a higher price. However beef farmers cannot make money by supplementing if grass runs out.

My point to the dairy farmers was if your grass is tight and you are considering feeding silage due to drouth might it not be an option to lenghten the rotation. Yes grass will be a bit more stemmy but your costs may be lower. This year might not have been the year to try as a strong milk price made it more viable to produce milk at any cost. However if milk goes sub 30c/L for a while the viability might change.

Generally this summer I lenghtened rotation as if I did not I would have ran out of grass and had to feed meal and silage which is not profitable in a beef situtation.

Charliebull

anyone going to have a go at the Teagasc Beef Free Liver Fluke Testing

Nettleman

Charliebull wrote: »

anyone going to have a go at the Teagasc Beef Free Liver Fluke Testing

Yep.

just do it

Charliebull wrote: »

anyone going to have a go at the Teagasc Beef Free Liver Fluke Testing

Details please? !

Nettleman

just do it wrote: »

Details please? !

http://www.teagasc.ie/publications/2014/3288/Fluke_Sept2014.pdf

Charliebull

just do it wrote: »

Details please? !

nettleman posted link below, seems a worthwhile exercise

tanko

Charliebull wrote: »

anyone going to have a go at the Teagasc Beef Free Liver Fluke Testing

Does a Farmer have to be a client of teagasc to avail of that?

on the river

tanko wrote: »

Does a Farmer have to be a client of teagasc to avail of that?

Yes, sadly:(

tanko

The Gene Ireland Autumn 2014 beef catalogue is up on the ICBF website. Don't know how to put a link to it. Maybe someone would oblige.

just do it

tanko wrote: »

The Gene Ireland Autumn 2014 beef catalogue is up on the ICBF website. Don't know how to put a link to it. Maybe someone would oblige.

Anything you fancy?

tanko

just do it wrote: »

Anything you fancy?

Just had a quick look, the lim bull keltic handsome is an interesting looking bull.

just do it

tanko wrote: »

Just had a quick look, the lim bull keltic handsome is an interesting looking bull.

That and the blonde bull

sandydan

http://issuu.com/niall_kilrane/docs/icbf_autumn_catalogue_2014/0


does that link work

Reggie.

sandydan wrote: »

http://issuu.com/niall_kilrane/docs/icbf_autumn_catalogue_2014/0


does that link work

Yeah

Milked out

Do ye get to chose the bulls ye want from gene Ireland or do ye get a random pack?

tanko

Milked out wrote: »

Do ye get to chose the bulls ye want from gene Ireland or do ye get a random pack?

You pick the bulls you want. Popular ones don't be long going tho usually.

Milked out

tanko wrote: »

You pick the bulls you want. Popular ones don't be long going tho usually.

Don't get the choice withe the dairy programme, just get a pack of 5 or 7 bulls

tanko

Milked out wrote: »

Don't get the choice withe the dairy programme, just get a pack of 5 or 7 bulls

The unknown calving difficulty is the snag with it.

bogman_bass

Milked out wrote: »

Don't get the choice withe the dairy programme, just get a pack of 5 or 7 bulls

You can't really get away with that with beef since there is a much smaller number of bulls spread over a much bigger number of breeds

Charliebull

how reliable is the gestation length for HCA and FTY on ICBF website

HCA is showing 286-289 days, I have a heifer 279 days in calf to him

FTY is showing 288-290 days, I have a heifer 274 days in calf to him

Nettleman

Charliebull wrote: »

how reliable is the gestation length for HCA and FTY on ICBF website

HCA is showing 286-289 days, I have a heifer 279 days in calf to him

FTY is showing 288-290 days, I have a heifer 274 days in calf to him

In general, I think heifers have slightly different gestation period from "All cows" average shown on icbf. Thems some super bull choice, especiallt F?TY
what breed are heifers?

bogman_bass

Charliebull wrote: »

how reliable is the gestation length for HCA and FTY on ICBF website

HCA is showing 286-289 days, I have a heifer 279 days in calf to him

FTY is showing 288-290 days, I have a heifer 274 days in calf to him

HCA has 6025 gestation records and FTY only has 110

Charliebull

Nettleman wrote: »

In general, I think heifers have slightly different gestation period from "All cows" average shown on icbf. Thems some super bull choice, especiallt F?TY
what breed are heifers?

yea its hard to call with them, have to go away with work for a few days and they are still out, one of them is starting to spring well

FTY on SIMX Heifer
HCA on HERXSIM Heifer

Charliebull

seen that bogman and would presume HCA to be fairly accurate, but as i have never used him i was just wondering had anyone else experience with dates

bogman_bass

To be honest it's just a guide. there are so many other factors such as the cows genetics and if the calf is a bull or heifer.

Charliebull

bogman_bass wrote: »

To be honest it's just a guide. there are som amany other factors such as the cows genetics and if the calf is a bull or heifer.

yea i know, found them accurate on a bb bull previously,

only good thing is heifers heifers tend to be sick that bit longer

Willfarman

A lot of people after running into bother with losing cows from grass tetany in South east this last week or so.

Nettleman

I know were in a crisis, but seems if you avoid dealing with factories, ya might not feel the brunt of it.
trade naa too bad in carnaross this week...I woulda lost out agreeing to give me cattle to the factory...commissions all recovered !!!
Factories got 2k more cattle last week than in same week 2013, and this cant continue much longer. Lads must be betting factory price will recover fast, when supply drops like a stone, pre xmas maybe.

on the river

Nettleman wrote: »

I know were in a crisis, but seems if you avoid dealing with factories, ya might not feel the brunt of it.
trade naa too bad in carnaross this week...I woulda lost out agreeing to give me cattle to the factory...commissions all recovered !!!
Factories got 2k more cattle last week than in same week 2013, and this cant continue much longer. Lads must be betting factory price will recover fast, when supply drops like a stone, pre xmas maybe.

I think you need a pint !!!:rolleyes:

Farmer Pudsey

Nettleman wrote: »

I know were in a crisis, but seems if you avoid dealing with factories, ya might not feel the brunt of it.
trade naa too bad in carnaross this week...I woulda lost out agreeing to give me cattle to the factory...commissions all recovered !!!
Factories got 2k more cattle last week than in same week 2013, and this cant continue much longer. Lads must be betting factory price will recover fast, when supply drops like a stone, pre xmas maybe.

At this stage it is likly that kill will drop fast at some stage pre Christmas. Nearly 130k cattle extra kill compared to last year. Hard to believe it is continuing so long. Demand must be very strong as usually processors in a case like this would be limiting kill by backing up cattle.

Maybe the good summer has caused older cattle that migh hang around to finish but 30K above normal numbers is unusual. Cows and Bulls very scarse so it all steers and Heifers taht are making up numbers. Anybody with 2013 cattle should be holding them as long as possible

Brass Tag

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

At this stage it is likly that kill will drop fast at some stage pre Christmas. Nearly 130k cattle extra kill compared to last year. Hard to believe it is continuing so long. Demand must be very strong as usually processors in a case like this would be limiting kill by backing up cattle.

Maybe the good summer has caused older cattle that migh hang around to finish but 30K above normal numbers is unusual. Cows and Bulls very scarse so it all steers and Heifers taht are making up numbers. Anybody with 2013 cattle should be holding them as long as possible

Sold my dirty arse weanlings (another thread) out of the yard to fella who buys 600 weanlings every fall.
€2.70kg fully weaned already. I have to hang on to them for 9 or 10 days till he collects.
Anyway, he's intending on buying a lot more than normal this fall, as he reckons cattle for grass next spring will be very dear. Demand to well outstrip supply he estimates.

Reggie.

Brass Tag wrote: »

Sold my dirty arse weanlings (another thread) out of the yard to fella who buys 600 weanlings every fall.
€2.70kg fully weaned already. I have to hang on to them for 9 or 10 days till he collects.
Anyway, he's intending on buying a lot more than normal this fall, as he reckons cattle for grass next spring will be very dear. Demand to well outstrip supply he estimates.

That's good to hear

Nettleman

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

At this stage it is likly that kill will drop fast at some stage pre Christmas. Nearly 130k cattle extra kill compared to last year. Hard to believe it is continuing so long. Demand must be very strong as usually processors in a case like this would be limiting kill by backing up cattle.

Maybe the good summer has caused older cattle that migh hang around to finish but 30K above normal numbers is unusual. Cows and Bulls very scarse so it all steers and Heifers taht are making up numbers. Anybody with 2013 cattle should be holding them as long as possible

any word if factory feedlots are ready to kill yet or are the using them already??

AP2014

Reggie. wrote: »

That's good to hear

Not if your buying. I'll have to get in early next year so. May buy early Feb and get a few bales of hay off a neighbour.

Reggie.

AP2014 wrote: »

Not if your buying. I'll have to get in early next year so. May buy early Feb and get a few bales of hay off a neighbour.

Ah but I'm selling so that's ok

Nettleman

Reggie. wrote: »

Ah but I'm selling so that's ok

+1

AP2014

Reggie. wrote: »

Ah but I'm selling so that's ok

Ah sure no crisis anyway!

Reggie.

AP2014 wrote: »

Ah sure no crisis anyway!

So I heard

AP2014

Reggie. wrote: »

So I heard

Like the budget yesterday, the good times have returned.

on the river

AP2014 wrote: »

Like the budget yesterday, the good times have returned.

for you, without question

AP2014

on the river wrote: »

for you, without question

Ha, the beef recession never hit me. Don't plan on getting stung now either

on the river

AP2014 wrote: »

Ha, the beef recession never hit me. Don't plan on getting stung now either

thought so. your too smart and conservative for the factories.;)

Limestone Cowboy

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

At this stage it is likly that kill will drop fast at some stage pre Christmas. Nearly 130k cattle extra kill compared to last year. Hard to believe it is continuing so long. Demand must be very strong as usually processors in a case like this would be limiting kill by backing up cattle.

Maybe the good summer has caused older cattle that migh hang around to finish but 30K above normal numbers is unusual. Cows and Bulls very scarse so it all steers and Heifers taht are making up numbers. Anybody with 2013 cattle should be holding them as long as possible

I have 9 16-17 month old store heifers around 450kg left over from last year Pudsey, had planned on moving them on fairly soon but would be able to hold them till after Xmas if I thought the trade would pick up for them?? Prices for similar stock I have seen selling weren't too hectic. Might keep the best 3 and breed them aswell.

TITANIUM.

AP2014 wrote: »

Ha, the beef recession never hit me. Don't plan on getting stung now either

No one ever does.

I suppose it'll depend on what happens with the factory price between here and then. There's only so much finishing men can take. It's bound to trickle down.