Beef General Thread

Muckit · 22-07-2014 10:36pm

Couldn't agree more puds.

Willfarman · 22-07-2014 10:47pm

I hope farmers don't forget the ministers buffoonery last spring. Am disappointed he didn't get reshuffled off to somewhere else.

manjou · 22-07-2014 11:25pm

Wondering if all cattle that come of qa farms are ars sold as ga meat even though they dont meet factories spec.Never on qa inspections have been asked age weight or fat cover of cattle on farm.So all cattle on farm are qa.So what should be done is qa and grid should be seperate and all cattle should get bonus regardless if farm is qa.

Willfarman · 22-07-2014 11:38pm

manjou wrote: »

Wondering if all cattle that come of qa farms are ars sold as ga meat even though they dont meet factories spec.Never on qa inspections have been asked age weight or fat cover of cattle on farm.So all cattle on farm are qa.So what should be done is qa and grid should be seperate and all cattle should get bonus regardless if farm is qa.

It's all sold as QA if the farm is QA. It is farcical.

mf240 · 22-07-2014 11:46pm

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

It is amazing that the Minister for the Fence could not say anything all spring long in favour of farmers but can now come out to try to save the processors. It was something I suggested on one of the beef threads a months back that as BQAS was no benefit we should arrange a boycott of it.

The factory's and ministers are fast off the mark, cattle that are getting less than 3.5/kg(cows, bulls and O- or less cattle) it is no benefit. These cattle will alaways find a market at that price so why should farmers jump through hoops to produce a product to a premium spec(as opposes to a premium product) and recieve no benefit.

Yes easy know where his loyalties lie. It was the same with horse gate.

I said · 23-07-2014 9:51am

Willfarman wrote: »

It's all sold as QA if the farm is QA. It is farcical.

Correct QA is QA no matter what,this overage and underage bull is for the factories to control prices joe public sees the bord bia sign and is sold a lovely story about grass fed irish beef,but he's fcuked if he knows is it a heifer or steer or cow that he's eating.The well know fast food chain that says it uses British and Irish beef is a good thing but the consumer still has no idea what type of beef it is only it's from a QA herd.

nashmach · 23-07-2014 12:22pm

All of you calling for the abolition of the BBQAS, so how do you propose that the €40 or so extra it gives is reimbursed to farmers?

Or do we just pay less for cattle and thus put everyone along the chain in further difficulty.

Ill thought out move.

_Brian · 23-07-2014 12:25pm

nashmach wrote: »

All of you calling for the abolition of the BBQAS, so how do you propose that the €40 or so extra it gives is reimbursed to farmers?

Or do we just pay less for cattle and thus put everyone along the chain in further difficulty.

Ill thought out move.

Are lads not just suggesting a sort of protest withdrawal to have the voice of the farmer recognised ?? Or would lads be suggesting it be dropped altogether??

simx · 23-07-2014 1:14pm

I said wrote: »

Correct QA is QA no matter what,this overage and underage bull is for the factories to control prices joe public sees the bord bia sign and is sold a lovely story about grass fed irish beef,but he's fcuked if he knows is it a heifer or steer or cow that he's eating.The well know fast food chain that says it uses British and Irish beef is a good thing but the consumer still has no idea what type of beef it is only it's from a QA herd.

I'd dread to even think what kind of s**t is in burgers, cows ears, udders and the like I'd reckon

Farmer Pudsey · 23-07-2014 1:57pm

nashmach wrote: »

All of you calling for the abolition of the BBQAS, so how do you propose that the €40 or so extra it gives is reimbursed to farmers?

Or do we just pay less for cattle and thus put everyone along the chain in further difficulty.

Ill thought out move.

_Brian wrote: »

Are lads not just suggesting a sort of protest withdrawal to have the voice of the farmer recognised ?? Or would lads be suggesting it be dropped altogether??

It is 12c/kg on about 20% of cattle this is the issue about 80% of cattle recieve no QA bonus. I imagine that well over 80% of cattle going into factory's are QA'ed. Over 50% of our beef goes to the UK who'es supermarkets want QA cattle but are not paying for it. The Qa is no longer of benefit to farmers in general so if it is not reformed we should scrap it. It will not be scraped but if we are willing not to take part in it factory's will have to pay for it.

To put it in context I was told that next year farmers will have to pay for the inspection and it will cost 150+. It is my believe that it is a much more practical protest than farmers dancing around the ailes of Irish supermarkets that only take 4-6% of the beef we produce,

I said · 23-07-2014 2:21pm

nashmach wrote: »

All of you calling for the abolition of the BBQAS, so how do you propose that the €40 or so extra it gives is reimbursed to farmers?

Or do we just pay less for cattle and thus put everyone along the chain in further difficulty.

Ill thought out move.

What is €40 on 25%of all cattle killed still under the QA banner the factories are still getting the other 75% at no extra cost or lower prices the finisher is the one penalised to about €150 per head while the processor still get more money so yeah forget about €40 if in the long run it will do something about the shambles that is QA as it stands

nashmach · 23-07-2014 4:35pm

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

It is 12c/kg on about 20% of cattle this is the issue about 80% of cattle recieve no QA bonus. I imagine that well over 80% of cattle going into factory's are QA'ed. Over 50% of our beef goes to the UK who'es supermarkets want QA cattle but are not paying for it. The Qa is no longer of benefit to farmers in general so if it is not reformed we should scrap it. It will not be scraped but if we are willing not to take part in it factory's will have to pay for it.

To put it in context I was told that next year farmers will have to pay for the inspection and it will cost 150+. It is my believe that it is a much more practical protest than farmers dancing around the ailes of Irish supermarkets that only take 4-6% of the beef we produce,

After all of that - how do you propose to get the €40 back into farmers pockets. Many of us have quality assured cattle and strive to produce them and now you are wanting to kick this to touch after all the focus of the past few years... You are on about scrapping it - farmers are powerless to do so - this is driven by consumers.

I would be opposed to paying for this as Bord Bia are doing very little for Irish beef at present but agree with you that it would be far better than prancing around aisles and the protesters making nuisances of themselves.

I said wrote: »

What is €40 on 25%of all cattle killed still under the QA banner the factories are still getting the other 75% at no extra cost or lower prices the finisher is the one penalised to about €150 per head while the processor still get more money so yeah forget about €40 if in the long run it will do something about the shambles that is QA as it stands

Maybe the case for yourself but again €40 is a good few quid to those of us who actually produce cattle to meet the customers requirements.

Base price · 23-07-2014 5:17pm

Personally I think the QA scheme is a joke. As someone else posted it is just another stick for the factories to beat us with. OH delivers cattle to various factories for local farmers/finishers. A few months ago some factories wouldn't even quote for overage bullocks and cows unless they were coming from a QA herd, now in the last few weeks they couldn't care where they were coming from.
Also people with cattle in spec were being fcuked around by the same factories. On one hand they would give the bonus then take it back off for minus fat scores.
Initially I thought that the QA scheme was a good idea to promote Irish beef but it has been hijacked by the factories to manipulate prices to their benefit and to the disadvantage of the farmer/finisher.

Farmer Pudsey · 23-07-2014 5:21pm

nashmach wrote: »

After all of that - how do you propose to get the €40 back into farmers pockets. Many of us have quality assured cattle and strive to produce them and now you are wanting to kick this to touch after all the focus of the past few years... You are on about scrapping it - farmers are powerless to do so - this is driven by consumers.

I would be opposed to paying for this as Bord Bia are doing very little for Irish beef at present but agree with you that it would be far better than prancing around aisles and the protesters making nuisances of themselves.

Maybe the case for yourself but again €40 is a good few quid to those of us who actually produce cattle to meet the customers requirements.

Over the last 8 months QA has been used to reduce the price of bulls cows, heavy and lower spec cattle. As the price of these cattle were forced down this forced down the price of prime cattle here and in the UK. We have seen over the last 3 weeks that factory's have risen the price of these cattle cows and bulls rather than the price of prime cattle. So QA is costing you the 40 euro you get and more.

There is no way the factory's will be without QA however unless farmers are willing to let it be clear that we will not tolerate the present system and will scrap it as it is not fit for purpose then it will continue to cost all farmers money. If the factory's could not have forced bull prices so low the base for cattle would not be 3.7/kg.

At times when cattle numbers are high the factory's always use somthing to beat farmers with, years ago it was thirty months, but as this year it was a disgrace what happened with bulls. 18-30 months months ago they cryed at farmers not to export calves and weanlings athen when these came on stream they proceeded use this product to drop the price of all cattle.

It is one thing to look at the international price and see the Irish R price at only 5-10c/g below the US price where they use hormones, it is another thing to relise that the gap at O- is another 36c/kg below that, and that O grade bulls were 70-90c/kg below it until 10 days ago. As long as the factory's can access cheap beef at prices like that it pull down the price of your cattle. This will benefit all farmers cattle not just those extra cattle that get a bonus and a proper structured QA system.

Farmer Pudsey · 23-07-2014 5:31pm

Base price wrote: »

Personally I think the QA scheme is a joke. As someone else posted it is just another stick for the factories to beat us with. OH delivers cattle to various factories for local farmers/finishers. A few months ago some factories wouldn't even quote for overage bullocks and cows unless they were coming from a QA herd, now in the last few weeks they couldn't care where they were coming from.
Also people with cattle in spec were being fcuked around by the same factories. On one hand they would give the bonus then take it back off for minus fat scores.
Initially I thought that the QA scheme was a good idea to promote Irish beef but it has been hijacked by the factories to manipulate prices to their benefit and to the disadvantage of the farmer/finisher.

One example is O=4= cattle these suffer a 6c/kg drop as opposed to other higher grades, this catches smaller framed bullocks and heifers, another is the even though R+&R- is the base there is a 12c/kg drop to O+ cattle. These little tweaks give the factory's cheap beef to beat down the price in the UK and thereby put more pressure on us.

One of the real sickening things is the way lamb meat processors import lamb from NI and it is exported to France as Irish lamb and yet Irish stores exported to NI and finished there cannot be labeled as either Irish or NI cattle.

Base price · 23-07-2014 5:46pm

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

One of the real sickening things is the way lamb meat processors import lamb from NI and it is exported to France as Irish lamb and yet Irish stores exported to NI and finished there cannot be labeled as either Irish or NI cattle.

Did not know that about the sheep but am well aware of the cattle situation.
OH sold Fr bulls to a man in the North last spring and he had trouble getting them killed in the North last winter.
When it comes to free trade within the EU the cross border cattle situation is a pure joke.
Does anyone know if the IFA have challenged it?

nashmach · 23-07-2014 5:51pm

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Over the last 8 months QA has been used to reduce the price of bulls cows, heavy and lower spec cattle. As the price of these cattle were forced down this forced down the price of prime cattle here and in the UK. We have seen over the last 3 weeks that factory's have risen the price of these cattle cows and bulls rather than the price of prime cattle. So QA is costing you the 40 euro you get and more.

There is no way the factory's will be without QA however unless farmers are willing to let it be clear that we will not tolerate the present system and will scrap it as it is not fit for purpose then it will continue to cost all farmers money. If the factory's could not have forced bull prices so low the base for cattle would not be 3.7/kg.

At times when cattle numbers are high the factory's always use somthing to beat farmers with, years ago it was thirty months, but as this year it was a disgrace what happened with bulls. 18-30 months months ago they cryed at farmers not to export calves and weanlings athen when these came on stream they proceeded use this product to drop the price of all cattle.

It is one thing to look at the international price and see the Irish R price at only 5-10c/g below the US price where they use hormones, it is another thing to relise that the gap at O- is another 36c/kg below that, and that O grade bulls were 70-90c/kg below it until 10 days ago. As long as the factory's can access cheap beef at prices like that it pull down the price of your cattle. This will benefit all farmers cattle not just those extra cattle that get a bonus and a proper structured QA system.

All well and good Pudsey but the warning signs for bull beef were evident by this time last year - again I will admit factory driven (who obviously had an agenda).

Still consumers will want this and to be honest what factory is going to openly admit for the Irish market that it has no QA beef - simply won't work.

Your last point is irrelevant to QA really but more of an issue with the whole grid system itself.

Farmer Pudsey · 23-07-2014 6:35pm

nashmach wrote: »

All well and good Pudsey but the warning signs for bull beef were evident by this time last year - again I will admit factory driven (who obviously had an agenda).

Still consumers will want this and to be honest what factory is going to openly admit for the Irish market that it has no QA beef - simply won't work.

Your last point is irrelevant to QA really but more of an issue with the whole grid system itself.

Incorrect yes Cormac Healy was giving generic statements like he dis for the 2-3 years previous. But as late as October last factory porcurement agents were telling agents that there was no issue with bulls as long as below 24 months. Even at this stage last year it a bit late to lads that have kept bulls entire and have these up towards 500kgs to be going squeezing them.

A senior processor manager told staff who questioned what would happen to all these bulls after Christmass '' there will be no issue we will kill them at our price and when it suits us as we need them''. There is no issue with bulls for the last 10 day factory's cannot get enough of them neither can they get enough cows. The factory's are using this beef to try to keep a lid on prices however pressue is building on them.

Yes consumers want QA however why should we provide it to factory's for nothing and on top of that it be used to drop the price of all cattle in the system. You fail to grasp the point that the use of the QA bonus and the grid is costing you much more than the 40 yoyo's you get and next year you will have to pay for the benefit of providing it for nothing.

I said · 23-07-2014 6:40pm

An elderly neighbour near me nonQA and overage bullocks got base price last week killed next morning no questions asked as cattle scarce as I've said before they all go down the one line in the factory.QA is used to manipulate prices for factories benefit and not the farmers .

nashmach · 23-07-2014 7:10pm

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Incorrect yes Cormac Healy was giving generic statements like he dis for the 2-3 years previous. But as late as October last factory porcurement agents were telling agents that there was no issue with bulls as long as below 24 months. Even at this stage last year it a bit late to lads that have kept bulls entire and have these up towards 500kgs to be going squeezing them.

A senior processor manager told staff who questioned what would happen to all these bulls after Christmass '' there will be no issue we will kill them at our price and when it suits us as we need them''. There is no issue with bulls for the last 10 day factory's cannot get enough of them neither can they get enough cows. The factory's are using this beef to try to keep a lid on prices however pressue is building on them.

Yes consumers want QA however why should we provide it to factory's for nothing and on top of that it be used to drop the price of all cattle in the system. You fail to grasp the point that the use of the QA bonus and the grid is costing you much more than the 40 yoyo's you get and next year you will have to pay for the benefit of providing it for nothing.

So are you telling me those lads that long delays killing bulls out of sheds this time last year that it was not a sign of things to come? Come on, the writing was on the wall at that stage to be honest. That certainly isn't what was being said over this side of the country anyway - all the drive was on younger and younger bulls and indeed weight limits. However no one could have foreseen that such changes would take place over such a short period of time and rather more so over a few short months.

There are no doubt cows are being used to surpress price but it is like this - it has been that way since Adam and Eve and sure won't change in the future.

There is no need to get personal or intimidating with me, just because I have a different viewpoint to yours...
You are now casting comments that the grid is costing me money but I can tell you, I'd much sooner it than any flat price any day. No person can say that without knowledge of what a person is finishing. Yet again you are combining the two - the QA and the grid are two different animals IMV.

Yes, QA can be used as a market manipulator as another poster has said but I'd rather have it than not have it and get the €40 in my back pocket as a result. Clearly others think similar too given the rises in numbers signing up to it this year. It is a useful marketing tool but does need to be changed and not taken as a given in the price which factories have been left to do in particular over the past year or so. But it is one less thing for a factory to beat you up over.

The grid is flawed and needs to be reviewed and thought this had been done before around 3 years ago but can't remember any outcomes from it.

Base price · 23-07-2014 7:58pm

nashmach wrote: »

So are you telling me those lads that long delays killing bulls out of sheds this time last year that it was not a sign of things to come? Come on, the writing was on the wall at that stage to be honest. That certainly isn't what was being said over this side of the country anyway - all the drive was on younger and younger bulls and indeed weight limits. However no one could have foreseen that such changes would take place over such a short period of time and rather more so over a few short months.

There are no doubt cows are being used to surpress price but it is like this - it has been that way since Adam and Eve and sure won't change in the future.

There is no need to get personal or intimidating with me, just because I have a different viewpoint to yours...
You are now casting comments that the grid is costing me money but I can tell you, I'd much sooner it than any flat price any day. No person can say that without knowledge of what a person is finishing. Yet again you are combining the two - the QA and the grid are two different animals IMV.

Yes, QA can be used as a market manipulator as another poster has said but I'd rather have it than not have it and get the €40 in my back pocket as a result. Clearly others think similar too given the rises in numbers signing up to it this year. It is a useful marketing tool but does need to be changed and not taken as a given in the price which factories have been left to do in particular over the past year or so. But it is one less thing for a factory to beat you up over.

The grid is flawed and needs to be reviewed and thought this had been done before around 3 years ago but can't remember any outcomes from it.

The only reason that farmers are signing up for it around here is that they are afraid they will not get their cull cows/overage bullocks away next year. They have heard stories or have had first hand experience similar to what I recounted in my earlier post. It did not matter that the animals were not eligible for the scheme the factories wanted them to come from a QA herd period. As Pudsey said cheap meat for the factories at our expense.

Farmer Pudsey · 23-07-2014 9:16pm

nashmach wrote: »

So are you telling me those lads that long delays killing bulls out of sheds this time last year that it was not a sign of things to come? Come on, the writing was on the wall at that stage to be honest. That certainly isn't what was being said over this side of the country anyway - all the drive was on younger and younger bulls and indeed weight limits. However no one could have foreseen that such changes would take place over such a short period of time and rather more so over a few short months.

There are no doubt cows are being used to surpress price but it is like this - it has been that way since Adam and Eve and sure won't change in the future.

There is no need to get personal or intimidating with me, just because I have a different viewpoint to yours...
You are now casting comments that the grid is costing me money but I can tell you, I'd much sooner it than any flat price any day. No person can say that without knowledge of what a person is finishing. Yet again you are combining the two - the QA and the grid are two different animals IMV.

Yes, QA can be used as a market manipulator as another poster has said but I'd rather have it than not have it and get the €40 in my back pocket as a result. Clearly others think similar too given the rises in numbers signing up to it this year. It is a useful marketing tool but does need to be changed and not taken as a given in the price which factories have been left to do in particular over the past year or so. But it is one less thing for a factory to beat you up over.

The grid is flawed and needs to be reviewed and thought this had been done before around 3 years ago but can't remember any outcomes from it.

I do not know why you think I am getting personnel or trying to intimidate you. However I think you view point is flawed. As you said the grid is flawed. It has been flawed since it inception however the factory's will not fix these flaws unless a gun is to there head. The only gun that is present is if as farmers we are willing to walk away from it.

The main delay with bulls last year was those over 24 months generally bulls from 16-24 were killed when you wanted. It was a little harder than other years but previous years there was issue with killing bulls as well.

What change between September/October when factory procurement managers told agent's no issue with bulls under 24 months and Christmas. Quite simply the factory filled there feedlots with 15-20K cattle in anticipation of Christmass shortage, then a few wet weeks around the same time encouraged some farmers to house early. Then a dry warn autumn allowed more cattle to be killed off grass. This changed the normal market around Christmas and the early glut of cattle allowed meat processors to pick and chose and change spec.

Just like the UK farmers complain about cheaper beef distorting their market do you not consider prime beef at 3/KG (well finished Friesian bulls) is not causing a reduction in you beef prices. The other issue is why should farmers that produce a product (QA beef) that they are not being paid for continue in the scheme. The only way that the scheme will be reformed is if a substancial amount of farmers tell the meat processors enough is enough we are withdrawing our BQAS status

Robson99 · 23-07-2014 10:03pm

The main problem with the grid is that the 6 cent increments do not reflect the current base price. The 6 cent increment was done initially on a base price of 2.80 or 3.00 IIRC. The increments should be pro rata this base price .i.e. if beef is 4.00 per kg then the increments should be 8 cent. 6 cent is not enough of a bonus for producing better quality stock

Willfarman · 23-07-2014 10:41pm

Robson99 wrote: »

The main problem with the grid is that the 6 cent increments do not reflect the current base price. The 6 cent increment was done initially on a base price of 2.80 or 3.00 IIRC. The increments should be pro rata this base price .i.e. if beef is 4.00 per kg then the increments should be 8 cent. 6 cent is not enough of a bonus for producing better quality stock

You may be producing better quality stock but you might not be producing better quality beef. The conformation of the animal has little or no bearing on the taste tenderness and succulence of the beef.
Any price increment can only truly be fair if it's gauged on a boned out weight yield of meat. I kill cattle of all grades and the cattle I often feel robbed on are o+ grade. I don't believe the meat yield will be 12 cent a kg worth across the carcass compared to an r- .

And people need to remember there is a far greater tonnage of o grade beef produced in the country than u grade. These elitist fancy cattle loving grid supporters actually loaded the processers guns to cheapen the overall tonnage of beef.

Muckit · 23-07-2014 10:43pm

The increment should be a percentage of base say something like 2%.

Farmer Pudsey · 23-07-2014 10:46pm

Robson99 wrote: »

The main problem with the grid is that the 6 cent increments do not reflect the current base price. The 6 cent increment was done initially on a base price of 2.80 or 3.00 IIRC. The increments should be pro rata this base price .i.e. if beef is 4.00 per kg then the increments should be 8 cent. 6 cent is not enough of a bonus for producing better quality stock

the gap in reality is much bigger than 6c/kg/grid going down from the base with an O-4= QA bullocks is 42c/kg lower than an R-4= QA bullock. that is equivlrnt to nearly 14c/kg/increment.

coolshannagh28 · 23-07-2014 11:17pm

An excellent debate which reflects the huge level of dissatisfaction with processors manipulation of beef prices ,this is a zero sum game for primary producers and this is exaggerated by our minister for agriculture who backs big business .I have said this before to general opprobrium , opt out of the game . Lower inputs are the way forward ,smaller cattle numbers, smaller carcasses ,this will impact directly on the kill per week ie sub 30000 and drive added value as this is what the market demands , embrace the subsidies maximise SFP consider organics ,future funding is targeted at greening, biodiversity and agritourism .
Aim to minimise losses from farming and maximise income from other sources ,CAP is there to subsidise loss making beef farmers who are not able to or meant to make profit.

Willfarman · 23-07-2014 11:28pm

The problem with that is if you are moderately to well stocked and you look at your fixed costs and your inputs..
Then cost up reducing stocking density.
The fixed costs barely move. The inputs reduce a little bit but not near as much as you would hope. Cash flow suffers. Grassland deteriorates. And the big problem is your net worth slips when you let stock numbers slip.

freedominacup · 24-07-2014 6:24am

nashmach wrote: »

After all of that - how do you propose to get the €40 back into farmers pockets. Many of us have quality assured cattle and strive to produce them and now you are wanting to kick this to touch after all the focus of the past few years... You are on about scrapping it - farmers are powerless to do so - this is driven by consumers.

I would be opposed to paying for this as Bord Bia are doing very little for Irish beef at present but agree with you that it would be far better than prancing around aisles and the protesters making nuisances of themselves.

Maybe the case for yourself but again €40 is a good few quid to those of us who actually produce cattle to meet the customers requirements.

The QA scheme is related to the farm that is producing the cattle not the cattle themselves. The factories have made it about the cattle which is just another example of their willingness to distort any system to suit their own needs regardless of the intentions of that system.

We nhave been qa since the start even before it was a BB scheme. We were supplying a ggod few beef heifers to an abbatoir that exclusively supplied of the supermarket chains and this supermarket came up with their own spec for beef suppliers back in the late nineties (I think). We used to get a notional bonus at that time but it was probably the last time we produced cattle that got a qa bonus. However someone who signed up to qa in the last six months, who buys cattle of x grade regardless of the animals previous history (7 non qa farms, 8 mart moves in the previous month whatever) can magically turn this animal into this mythical qa beef after the application of 71 days of the goodness his recently endowed qa status confers.:rolleyes: Whereas my Ho or HoX cattle of either sex can never achieve this status regardless of how much time they spend on my farm, usually birth to slaughter. It's a screwed up system, farms are QAed yet the factories have made it about the stock.

Muckit · 24-07-2014 7:58am

It's another 'divide and conquer' strategy.

QA vs non QA. Promoting begrudgery among farmers when in reality the QA lads are being caught out on every and any technicality and not getting it anyway!!

It's so f**ked up. It's great that farmers are at last seeing what the Bord Bia bonus is. Processors are always going to be the winners.

I said · 24-07-2014 9:00am

Swift response from bord bia in today's weekly.

leoch · 24-07-2014 9:51am

Another cheap marketing ploy sure all the farmers have to do if someone knew how to is put up a map of lreland showing thousands of map pins stuck to it each pin represents an unhappy farmer with bird bia .....simples

nashmach · 24-07-2014 11:27am

I seem to drawing the wrath of quite a few on here.

This universal withdrawl of support from the BBQAS is hardly too good for our international image either - any of the important delegations which were brought to Ireland over the past few years were shown this and it seemed to be important to them - I know the cynic in me would say sure Bord Bia were involved as part of the trips....

I agree with freedom above too, this 70 day residency is a load of codswhallop, it should be animal based - this is also distorting the trade for the short keep nearly finished stock - anybody know what status these have when they leave a factory feedlot.....

And I agree with whoever said that the scheme economics need to be changed to reflect a % of price rather than a nominal amount. Whoever came up with that day one were clearly not thinking it true. I also strongly agree that regardless of quality there should be some allowance made for those who are finishing HO type stock - even say 4c/kg?

Pudsey mentioned above about the €150 charge coming in possibly - not sure where he got that from as absolutely no mention of that in anything I have read anyway. But I had thought this was being subsidised by the ABB levy and the likes - someone can correct me on that. If we pay that does it mean that the 12c/kg will increase :rolleyes:. Also to put it in context, grain has a similar assurance scheme and you pay a minimum of €55 + VAT a year for it with regular inspections and book keeping to be completed - certainly there are no allowances in price for this one!! So my point is beef farmers are doing better than they think at times when it comes to QA. If this comes in though it will not be viable for quite a few to continue with it unless you view it as a more formal way of record keeping.

The one thing that not been tackled yet are these new "standards" around the number of moves - again imposed by factories with what we are told supermarket pressure.

blue5000 · 24-07-2014 12:03pm

I said wrote: »

Swift response from bord bia in today's weekly.

Remind me again someone, but was 2001 the year foot and mouth was in uk and bse found in germany? You couldn't sell a steak anywhere that year. Why don't they get a map of 1990 (or pre bse) and show us how fcukin great they are now instead of comparing themselves to 2001.

I said · 24-07-2014 12:43pm

nashmach wrote: »

I seem to drawing the wrath of quite a few on here.

This universal withdrawl of support from the BBQAS is hardly too good for our international image either - any of the important delegations which were brought to Ireland over the past few years were shown this and it seemed to be important to them - I know the cynic in me would say sure Bord Bia were involved as part of the trips....

I agree with freedom above too, this 70 day residency is a load of codswhallop, it should be animal based - this is also distorting the trade for the short keep nearly finished stock - anybody know what status these have when they leave a factory feedlot.....

And I agree with whoever said that the scheme economics need to be changed to reflect a % of price rather than a nominal amount. Whoever came up with that day one were clearly not thinking it true. I also strongly agree that regardless of quality there should be some allowance made for those who are finishing HO type stock - even say 4c/kg?

Pudsey mentioned above about the €150 charge coming in possibly - not sure where he got that from as absolutely no mention of that in anything I have read anyway. But I had thought this was being subsidised by the ABB levy and the likes - someone can correct me on that. If we pay that does it mean that the 12c/kg will increase :rolleyes:. Also to put it in context, grain has a similar assurance scheme and you pay a minimum of €55 + VAT a year for it with regular inspections and book keeping to be completed - certainly there are no allowances in price for this one!! So my point is beef farmers are doing better than they think at times when it comes to QA. If this comes in though it will not be viable for quite a few to continue with it unless you view it as a more formal way of record keeping.

The one thing that not been tackled yet are these new "standards" around the number of moves - again imposed by factories with what we are told supermarket pressure.

The problem I have with bord bia is that I'm jumping through hoops with inspections and record keeping,yet the factories can fcuk around all they like impose penalties on my stock using the QA mark and I lose out and they can still market the product I have striven to produce as a QA product and I get no monetary gain from it.Total bollixology.

mf240 · 24-07-2014 8:53pm

Yes freedom has it spot on. The qa scheme is about record keeping, medicine, foodstuffs, ect.

The bonus should be paid on all cattle produced under the scheme regardless of grade age or weight.

Willfarman · 24-07-2014 10:56pm

Small yearling Hereford heifers in mart this week. Had 5 to 7 moves on board. Some tangling on them cretins!

Robson99 · 24-07-2014 10:58pm

Muckit wrote: »

The increment should be a percentage of base say something like 2%.

Isn't that the same as what I'm saying. A percentage of the base is the same as pro rata increments of the original base.

Robson99 · 24-07-2014 11:11pm

[quote="Willfarman;9141051

And people need to remember there is a far greater tonnage of o grade beef produced in the country than u grade. These elitist fancy cattle loving grid supporters actually loaded the processers guns to cheapen the overall tonnage of beef.[/quote]

There is no need to be throwing dirt at people who produce quality cattle. We have teagasc advising and encouraging suckler farmers to produce better quality stock and now we have fellow farmers blaming others for producing and supplying quality grade cattle. Maybe we should all produce o- grade cattle to keep a few of ye happy.

sandydan · 24-07-2014 11:47pm

Willfarman wrote: »

Small yearling Hereford heifers in mart this week. Had 5 to 7 moves on board. Some tangling on them cretins!

thought factories dont want 5 or more moves

darragh_haven · 24-07-2014 11:52pm

sandydan wrote: »

thought factories dont want 5 or more moves

Factories will take cattle with any amount of moves They won't pay the quality assurance bonus if they have 5 or more

Willfarman · 24-07-2014 11:56pm

I could give a fiddlers what you produce?
I just don't agree that any payment increments should be based on anything more than the value of the extra beef that a better qaulity carcass yields. I finish cattle of all grades and the animal I want is the one with a turn in it.

sandydan · 24-07-2014 11:59pm

simx wrote: »

I'd dread to even think what kind of s**t is in burgers, cows ears, udders and the like I'd reckon

have you seen "little or no lamb found in lamb kebabs,as well as undeclared meat but no horsemeat" article in Irish Farmers Journal ,are we in risk of finding our meat trade embroiled in market destroying scandal of wrong marketing advertising that could cripple or reduce value of food industry before regs are tightened up re adhering to food branding

rangler1 · 25-07-2014 7:00am

Willfarman wrote: »

I could give a fiddlers what you produce?
I just don't agree that any payment increments should be based on anything more than the value of the extra beef that a better qaulity carcass yields. I finish cattle of all grades and the animal I want is the one with a turn in it.

As you say the O grade is the most common grade and any proposal to increase the increments would only reduce the price of most of the cattle going to the factory

Willfarman · 25-07-2014 7:46am

sandydan wrote: »

have you seen "little or no lamb found in lamb kebabs,as well as undeclared meat but no horsemeat" article in Irish Farmers Journal ,are we in risk of finding our meat trade embroiled in market destroying scandal of wrong marketing advertising that could cripple or reduce value of food industry before regs are tightened up re adhering to food branding

An advert on telly that drives me nut is for Denny ham. Irish as "begorra sir". The gaa boggers goin off on d big bus with a big box o hang sandwiches. " mm, mm ahhh haw" sings yer man. A sacred irish tradition. Say they.
It's feckin imported meat.
Made in Wicklow say they?
It's processed and packed in Wicklow. So

ham isn't grown and reared from livestock by farmers. it's "made" in a factory.

manjou · 25-07-2014 7:46am

The grid and QA should be seperate all cattle from qa farms should get it.I joined the qa because it cost me nothing only a few signs and some paperwork.However after last audit a line about not enough concrete around sheds so now it might start to cost me money.They will keep changing the rules to keep ahead of opposition and we are the ones who will pay
.As regards the grades o ps taste the same as a u+ in mcdonalds etc.
Was in garage other day and 2 older men from non farming background were saying how beef did not taste like it used to and neither of them ate beef when they were out anymore or at home either said no taste of it and tough aswell so this is anotger problem we are facing.

Charliebull · 25-07-2014 8:33am

Willfarman wrote: »

Small yearling Hereford heifers in mart this week. Had 5 to 7 moves on board. Some tangling on them cretins!

What colour and what price in the end

Dozer1 · 25-07-2014 9:40am

was at the BETTER farm walk in Lixnaw yesterday, full credit to the guy he had a great setup fencing, roadways, great shed etc and great to see.

unfortunately as I drove out of it I couldn't help thinking everyone of the surrounding farms had dairy cows and the whole walk never mentioned the possibility of converting to dairy, his SFP was never mentioned and the figures on the board didn't look like he was making much profit without SFP.

Bord Bia guy was there saying yea things are tough at the moment but they shouldn't get any worse.

He had a bunch of weanling bulls that he said were sold for 3 euro/kg and to me leg wax's bulls were along way ahead.

All in all a good day out but if I was in his shoe's I'd be costing up a parlour and 60 cows, even getting in someone to milk I reckon he'd be better off

Genghis Cant · 25-07-2014 10:08am

The way I look on this grid debate is: We were screwed on prices before the grid and continue to be screwed.
Every way the factories can increase downward pressure on beef, they will.

If we were in Africa we'd be producing under "Fair Trade". Maybe that's what we need: Fair Trade beef:)

dharn · 25-07-2014 10:19am

Came across a programme on tv last night cattle in pens in the usa as far as the eye can see, lying on brown clay never saw grass in their lives fed on maize meal and vitamins, when I look out at my cattle stretched out , on lush green grass sunning themselves, yet my beef is no better valued than that american factory beef

Beef General Thread

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