Beef General Thread

Farmer Pudsey

First thing yes grass production on beef farms could be improved I am often the fist to say that the biggest issue on beef farms is the attitude that this will not work here. There is much more rushes around nowadays that 40 years ago considering there is better ways of control. Spraying, licking and drainage are effective ways of control.

However there is big difference between one herd of cows who are used to being moved every day and find the way to the parlour by themselves and lie down in cubicles rather than go out in the rain. Than trying to get 2-3 groups of different cattle into a shed and remember they will have to go straight out again. Farmers trying to implement dairying practices to drystock farms is not possibe.

This is whay dairy farmers wondering why beef farmers cannot have cattle out the 10th of Feb when there are often only out for 3-4 hours and then only cows that have calved. I cannot imagine 2 year old fresian bullocks wandering back into a slatted shed after being left out for the first time in 3-4 months

rangler1

frazzledhome wrote: »

I suppose if you think you can't do it, your probably right.

Ye must concede that grass growing and utilisation must be top priority on all cattle farms. Supplement not substitute.

They guy in the article focused on the solution rather than the problem.

I don't accept that cattle can't be run through a shed for buffer. Not possible on fragmented farms, I know but most around here are 100 acres in one block.

Labour on a 150 cow suckler farm, when would that be required?

How much of the €13000 is net profit or is he claiming that he's making an extra €500/cow on 26 cows when good profit monitors are showing about half that.
If a farmer has 40 cows and wants to increase to 60, is it viable to put up housing now for them!!!!!

frazzledhome

rangler1 wrote: »

How much of the €13000 is net profit or is he claiming that he's making an extra €500/cow on 26 cows when good profit monitors are showing about half that.

Wasn't there so can't answer. Found the article interesting and thought it may be of interest to those who weren't. I'd imagine its gross, isn't that the way suckler numbers are reported.

On your comment re West if Ireland I agree land is poorer and more fragmented but not in all cases as you know. Had the pleasure of a great week in West Clare and for the life of me couldn't understand why hay bales were in fields that had been cut 3 weeks before. The reason I say 3 weeks was there was 1200 of a cover and no fert had been spread. Pass a very few places where paddocks were in place and the difference in management was striking. Leaving bales out has nothing to do with wet weather or bad land, its the attitude of the nut behind the wheel

I better depart this thread as I didn't come here to start a row rather to bring the IFJ piece to people's attention.

Reggie.

frazzledhome wrote: »

Wasn't there so can't answer. Found the article interesting and thought it may be of interest to those who weren't. I'd imagine its gross, isn't that the way suckler numbers are reported.

On your comment re West if Ireland I agree land is poorer and more fragmented but not in all cases as you know. Had the pleasure of a great week in West Clare and for the life of me couldn't understand why hay bales were in fields that had been cut 3 weeks before. The reason I say 3 weeks was there was 1200 of a cover and no fert had been spread. Pass a very few places where paddocks were in place and the difference in management was striking. Leaving bales out has nothing to do with wet weather or bad land, its the attitude of the nut behind the wheel

I better depart this thread as I didn't come here to start a row rather to bring the IFJ piece to people's attention.

Not at all frazzled. All input is welcomed

on the river

frazzledhome wrote: »

Wasn't there so can't answer. Found the article interesting and thought it may be of interest to those who weren't. I'd imagine its gross, isn't that the way suckler numbers are reported.

On your comment re West if Ireland I agree land is poorer and more fragmented but not in all cases as you know. Had the pleasure of a great week in West Clare and for the life of me couldn't understand why hay bales were in fields that had been cut 3 weeks before. The reason I say 3 weeks was there was 1200 of a cover and no fert had been spread. Pass a very few places where paddocks were in place and the difference in management was striking. Leaving bales out has nothing to do with wet weather or bad land, its the attitude of the nut behind the wheel

I better depart this thread as I didn't come here to start a row rather to bring the IFJ piece to people's attention.

I Must agree management is key to any success. If all beef farmers took advise from their dairy counterparts then they might be more profitable

GrandSoftDay

frazzledhome wrote: »

Wasn't there so can't answer. Found the article interesting and thought it may be of interest to those who weren't. I'd imagine its gross, isn't that the way suckler numbers are reported.

On your comment re West if Ireland I agree land is poorer and more fragmented but not in all cases as you know. Had the pleasure of a great week in West Clare and for the life of me couldn't understand why hay bales were in fields that had been cut 3 weeks before. The reason I say 3 weeks was there was 1200 of a cover and no fert had been spread. Pass a very few places where paddocks were in place and the difference in management was striking. Leaving bales out has nothing to do with wet weather or bad land, its the attitude of the nut behind the wheel

I better depart this thread as I didn't come here to start a row rather to bring the IFJ piece to people's attention.

Well that's a different issue again I suppose! There's lads like that in every corner of the country. I agree though that grassland management is the most important part of whatever enterprise you are at be it dairy, beef or sheep. I know plenty of lads that would rather rent more land than tidy up their own place that has rushes growing over the walls with bad crushes and a few pallets for a gate, madness to be honest.

Damo810

frazzledhome wrote: »

Wasn't there so can't answer. Found the article interesting and thought it may be of interest to those who weren't. I'd imagine its gross, isn't that the way suckler numbers are reported.

On your comment re West if Ireland I agree land is poorer and more fragmented but not in all cases as you know. Had the pleasure of a great week in West Clare and for the life of me couldn't understand why hay bales were in fields that had been cut 3 weeks before. The reason I say 3 weeks was there was 1200 of a cover and no fert had been spread. Pass a very few places where paddocks were in place and the difference in management was striking. Leaving bales out has nothing to do with wet weather or bad land, its the attitude of the nut behind the wheel

I better depart this thread as I didn't come here to start a row rather to bring the IFJ piece to people's attention.

All the same around here, large covers with hay bales stuck out for a few weeks in the middle of it. I'd also hate to think of what is in those hay bales too.

Theres a lot of pure muck made into silage bales around here, stuff that 2 months past cutting, a neighbour here cut grass in May, second is already done too, whereas the lads beside him only cut the other day, and that would be regarded as early for them...

I think we're the only ones with a paddock system in place, and that only came about through my constant ****ing nagging, but once it was setup they were amazed at the amount of grass they had compared to a normal year, and we had, by far the heaviest cattle ever on the farm, averaging over .9kg lwg over 400 days with very little meal. Getting them to keep using it on the other hand, is still a huge task, FFS!

I have no doubt production could be doubled on many places around the west, but in all honesty, the first thing I though when I saw your post about growing more grass, was how much more it cost per T/ha and how much extra profit that lead to, along with the extra labour, one has to consider, is it worth it?

rangler1

frazzledhome wrote: »

Wasn't there so can't answer. Found the article interesting and thought it may be of interest to those who weren't. I'd imagine its gross, isn't that the way suckler numbers are reported.

On your comment re West if Ireland I agree land is poorer and more fragmented but not in all cases as you know. Had the pleasure of a great week in West Clare and for the life of me couldn't understand why hay bales were in fields that had been cut 3 weeks before. The reason I say 3 weeks was there was 1200 of a cover and no fert had been spread. Pass a very few places where paddocks were in place and the difference in management was striking. Leaving bales out has nothing to do with wet weather or bad land, its the attitude of the nut behind the wheel

I better depart this thread as I didn't come here to start a row rather to bring the IFJ piece to people's attention.

You don't have to go to West Clare to see that, that sort of farming is everywhere, and then I have to tolerate a third of my SFP being transferred to that sort of farming in the next five years.
A lot of hay was made this year with no sheds available to put it in and no customers.....some standard of management

frazzledhome

rangler1 wrote: »

You don't have to go to West Clare to see that, that sort of farming is everywhere, and then I have to tolerate a third of my SFP being transferred to that sort of farming in the next five years.
A lot of hay was made this year with no sheds available to put it in and no customers.....some standard of management

Well, lots of good hay in France!!
True about SFP, disgrace.
I think we should stop for fear of derailing a good thread.

Greengrass1

I think the mentality towards grass is everywhere frazz. On my road when we moved in here one lad had a fine field. Made two cuts if silage off it the yr we came here now its only rushes and boggy. Now go 5 mile over the road to where our heifers are and the lad next to us with sheep/cattle has the best grass I've seen. The grass my heifers would be getting would be inferior to it. And the size of the lambs off it is cruel. Never see such nice ones.
Really is horses for courses. Lads that want to make the most out of what they have and lads that don't want to put the effort in

frazzledhome

Greengrass1 wrote: »

I think the mentality towards grass is everywhere frazz. On my road when we moved in here one lad had a fine field. Made two cuts if silage off it the yr we came here now its only rushes and boggy. Now go 5 mile over the road to where our heifers are and the lad next to us with sheep/cattle has the best grass I've seen. The grass my heifers would be getting would be inferior to it. And the size of the lambs off it is cruel. Never see such nice ones.
Really is horses for courses. Lads that want to make the most out of what they have and lads that don't want to put the effort in

Don't you come over here causing trouble now!

My intention was not to compare dairy and beef, just to make a point on grass management.

Greengrass1

frazzledhome wrote: »

Don't you come over here causing trouble now!

My intention was not to compare dairy and beef, just to make a point on grass management.

No trouble intended
I haven't seen as good grass in my area past a dairy man. Just goes to show if anyone can grow good grass and cut down on meal.

conor t

frazzledhome wrote: »

Wasn't there so can't answer. Found the article interesting and thought it may be of interest to those who weren't. I'd imagine its gross, isn't that the way suckler numbers are reported.

On your comment re West if Ireland I agree land is poorer and more fragmented but not in all cases as you know. Had the pleasure of a great week in West Clare and for the life of me couldn't understand why hay bales were in fields that had been cut 3 weeks before. The reason I say 3 weeks was there was 1200 of a cover and no fert had been spread. Pass a very few places where paddocks were in place and the difference in management was striking. Leaving bales out has nothing to do with wet weather or bad land, its the attitude of the nut behind the wheel

I better depart this thread as I didn't come here to start a row rather to bring the IFJ piece to people's attention.

I'd say the main problem is lads looking at dairy farmers managing grass well and saying 'shur dat wouldn't work here' instead of implementing some improvements like leaving cattle in a paddock for two or three days instead of a week

on the river

conor t wrote: »

I'd say the main problem is lads looking at dairy farmers managing grass well and saying 'shur dat wouldn't work here' instead of implementing some improvements like leaving cattle in a paddock for two or three days instead of a week

That the problem many beef farmers just allow their livestock roam large fields without any strip or paddocks systems. Grass is our cheapest resource yet too many beef farmers buy Vast amount of meal which eats into any profit.

larrymiller

Jesus I think I'm the opposite to every one. Have paddocks and very good rotation. But I'm to mean to buy meal And don't feed it that much 😕

whelan2

on the river wrote: »

That the problem many beef farmers just allow their livestock roam large fields without any strip or paddocks systems. Grass is our cheapest resource yet too many beef farmers buy Vast amount of meal which eats into any profit.

is it not that alot of beef farmers are part time and dont have the time to be looking after grass like a fulltime dairy farmer would. Most beef farmers i know use big fields and wouldnt know how to put up a strip wire

Reggie.

whelan2 wrote: »

is it not that alot of beef farmers are part time and dont have the time to be looking after grass like a fulltime dairy farmer would. Most beef farmers i know use big fields and wouldnt know how to put up a strip wire

That's a bit harsh

whelan2

Reggie. wrote: »

That's a bit harsh

i live with it here, have suggested splitting the big field where sucklers are ,its a no go area.....a few weeks ago i suggest baling a field or 2 on the outfarm as they where gone strong, it was a:eek::eek: reply but we did it anyway and everyday he says that was a great idea look at the lovely grass we have now:)

Reggie.

whelan2 wrote: »

i live with it here, have suggested splitting the big field where sucklers are ,its a no go area.....a few weeks ago i suggest baling a field or 2 on the outfarm as they where gone strong, it was a:eek::eek: reply but we did it anyway and everyday he says that was a great idea look at the lovely grass we have now:)

Yeah smallest field around here are 5 acres

moy83

whelan2 wrote: »

is it not that alot of beef farmers are part time and dont have the time to be looking after grass like a fulltime dairy farmer would. Most beef farmers i know use big fields and wouldnt know how to put up a strip wire

There is definitely an element of that to it W2 , but in fairness a bit of electric fencing is handy enough done and a bit of thought into how its setup could make it a 10 minute job that would be done while you are out counting/checking them in the evening .
Forward grazing for the calves would be a great job aswell that can be as simple as having a section of the fence lifted just enough for the calves to get under and not the cows .
Its hard to put alot of effort into sucklers when the money is so small out of them no matter how efficient you can run them

ellewood

From iga grass walk..

Grass

Step 1 grow it in 21 days graze it in 3

Step 2 use it by using paddocks and drinkers

Simple:D

I said

Mine don't be here long enough to familiarise themselves with a paddock system lol

Farrell

Have to agree on grass management.
With forward grazing, even to give a bit of nuts the calves stayed with the cows till August.
Have problem with water this year (waiting on connection to be fixed) so water in 1 block & then open & close.
Can see difference in growth

Farmer Pudsey

rangler1 wrote: »

You don't have to go to West Clare to see that, that sort of farming is everywhere, and then I have to tolerate a third of my SFP being transferred to that sort of farming in the next five years.
A lot of hay was made this year with no sheds available to put it in and no customers.....some standard of management

They could just as easily be farmers that have decent SFP that are retired with minimal stocking levels. This allows them to collect there SFP, DA and they make hay to sell. They are caught this year with excess hay.

frazzledhome

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

They could just as easily be farmers that have decent SFP that are retired with minimal stocking levels. This allows them to collect there SFP, DA and they make hay to sell. They are caught this year with excess hay.

Leave it rot in the field, bad summer and spring "fodder crisis".. It's waste pure and simple

I said

frazzledhome wrote: »

Leave it rot in the field, bad summer and spring "fodder crisis".. It's waste pure and simple

How many contractors have been paid in bales this year?

moy83

frazzledhome wrote: »

Leave it rot in the field, bad summer and spring "fodder crisis".. It's waste pure and simple

No excuse for leaving it rot , even if it was stacked in a dry corner and an old silage cover thrown over it most of it would keep alright until its needed

Farmer Pudsey

frazzledhome wrote: »

Leave it rot in the field, bad summer and spring "fodder crisis".. It's waste pure and simple

I was not commenting on what was being done rather on the perception as to who was doing it.

Reggie.

frazzledhome wrote: »

Leave it rot in the field, bad summer and spring "fodder crisis".. It's waste pure and simple

Agreed

Genghis Cant

frazzledhome wrote: »

Leave it rot in the field, bad summer and spring "fodder crisis".. It's waste pure and simple

Obviously leaving hay to rot in a field is crazy. But I'd contend that it's the exception rather than the rule. I cover a lot of the countryside in work and its rare I'd see it. On the subject, round bales of hay are perfectly well left out for the winter. Stacked in lines with a gap between to allow the rain run off them, there'll be minimal loss on them.

whelan2

moy83 wrote: »

No excuse for leaving it rot , even if it was stacked in a dry corner and an old silage cover thrown over it most of it would keep alright until its needed

all the effort that probably went into making it with out rain and then its left sitting there....makes me laugh

whelan2

Genghis Cant wrote: »

On the subject, round bales of hay are perfectly well left out for the winter. Stacked in lines with a gap between to allow the rain run off them, there'll be minimal loss on them.

they would be better off in a shed... its when they are left out in a field where the baler left them for months on end with lovely grass growing around them, whats the point?

Reggie.

whelan2 wrote: »

they would be better off in a shed... its when they are left out in a field where the baler left them for months on end with lovely grass growing around them, whats the point?

There's a good few fields around here like that and it would sicken ya. Knew well they would be left out when I seen so much being baled at the time of the fine weather

whelan2

a lad down the road has silage bales at the edge of the field from 2012- would not sell them in the bad spring of 2013:mad:- then on the other side of them is the hay bales from 2013 , all outside, wonder what he will do this year .

mahoney_j

Yep good idea and the dairy farming bias has now hijacked the beef thread!!

Kovu

Thread here- http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057262007

Will add poll shortly. Suggestions welcome.

Muckit

'They do be terrible them daiy farmers that throw 40-50 calves in a field of aftergrass and the red stems of the ripened dock heads littering the place. ....... terrible terrible terrible.'

Right back at ye dairy folks!!! :D

Reggie.

Muckit wrote: »

'They do be terrible them daiy farmers that throw 40-50 calves in a field of aftergrass and the red stems of the ripened dock heads littering the place. ....... terrible terrible terrible.'

Right back at ye dairy folks!!! :D

Here here

frazzledhome

mahoney_j wrote: »

Yep good idea and the dairy farming bias has now hijacked the beef thread!!

Funny thing is it was a drystock guy who mentioned dairy. I mearly posted re bales out side. Are we not allowed post here?

Unfortunately there is a undercurrent of the "Big bad dairy farmer" after taking over on boards, championed by a minority.

Can posts just be read for what they are?

Reggie.

frazzledhome wrote: »

Funny thing is it was a drystock guy who mentioned dairy. I mearly posted re bales out side. Are we not allowed post here?

Unfortunately there is a undercurrent of the "Big bad dairy farmer" after taking over on boards, championed by a minority.

Can posts just be read for what they are?

Relax frazzled relax :D:D

mahoney_j

frazzledhome wrote: »

Funny thing is it was a drystock guy who mentioned dairy. I mearly posted re bales out side. Are we not allowed post here?

Unfortunately there is a undercurrent of the "Big bad dairy farmer" after taking over on boards, championed by a minority.

Can posts just be read for what they are?

Arghhhhhhhh,you got a good days rain cheer up!!

frazzledhome

mahoney_j wrote: »

Arghhhhhhhh,you got a good days rain cheer up!!

It was gorgeous

I said

Having read all posts regarding paddock grazing must get me arse in gear and start dividing up bigger fields using temp electric where would I source concrete drinkers in the midlands area?too late to change this year but to have it ready for next year.

Reggie.

I said wrote: »

Having read all posts regarding paddock grazing must get me arse in gear and start dividing up bigger fields using temp electric where would I source concrete drinkers in the midlands area?too late to change this year but to have it ready for next year.

Chance ringing Joe in Kinnegad agri stores

TUBBY

I said wrote: »

Having read all posts regarding paddock grazing must get me arse in gear and start dividing up bigger fields using temp electric where would I source concrete drinkers in the midlands area?too late to change this year but to have it ready for next year.

precast crowd beside tullamor mart do them.

Farmer Pudsey

I said wrote: »

Having read all posts regarding paddock grazing must get me arse in gear and start dividing up bigger fields using temp electric where would I source concrete drinkers in the midlands area?too late to change this year but to have it ready for next year.

Remember if you buy just before end of tax year you can depreciate them 12.5% and claim back vat as well. You can claim back vat any time but if like me it happens once a year. It might not seem much but every little helps

Toplink

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Remember if you buy just before end of tax year you can depreciate them 12.5% and claim back vat as well. You can claim back vat any time but if like me it happens once a year. It might not seem much but every little helps

Without being VAT registered?

Toplink

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Remember if you buy just before end of tax year you can depreciate them 12.5% and claim back vat as well. You can claim back vat any time but if like me it happens once a year. It might not seem much but every little helps

Without being VAT registered?

Toplink

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Remember if you buy just before end of tax year you can depreciate them 12.5% and claim back vat as well. You can claim back vat any time but if like me it happens once a year. It might not seem much but every little helps

Without being VAT registered?

Farmer Pudsey

Toplink wrote: »

Without being VAT registered?

Yes with out being vat registered. You can claim vat back on any permanent fixture water troughs, hydrodare and fittings count.