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Electric Shower Overheating issue

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    #62
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    Bruthal wrote: »

    Once a coating of limescale builds up, the heat not going into the water quickly conducts to the can.

    Limescale acts as an insulator, this was my thinking earlier but when i thought about the conductivity of water and the metal can it all made sense.


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    #63
    suirvale
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭suirvale


    ITS TRITON T90 si,.its old but never used much,.i just am not rich at moment to buy new one thanks,.


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    #64
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »
    Limescale acts as an insulator, this was my thinking earlier but when i thought about the conductivity of water and the metal can it all made sense.

    Thats exactly what the limescale does. Insulates the elements from the cooling effect of the water. Less heat conducted away by the water, and the balance goes to the can.

    My main point was that the old can cant be putting more heat into the water than the new can. It has to be putting less in. Its only slightly less.

    The water can of course still be hotter, but thats because its flow is getting restricted.

    So overall, the old can cannot give better shower performance than a new clear one of equal wattage.


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    #65
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    It's the water that gets hot. Kettleing.
    (

    I will have to descale my own t90 one of these days, id say there is a bit of a build up in it at this stage.


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    #66
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,092 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Bruthal wrote: »
    A well now you say the shower head is removed, which is fair enough.

    With no shower head on for tests, the clogged heating can will restrict the flow much more noticably than with head on, compared to a clear can, with the temperature dial in identical position.

    What you need to do is measure the exact litres per minute, and temperatures. And it will likely be mystery solved.

    At the end of the day, anything that slows water flow, will cause temperature increase.


    The only factor that gives a better flow rate for identical temperature increase, is a higher wattage element.

    I think the mystery is deepened by confusing pressure with flow rate, and hotter water meaning higher heat input to water, which it doesnt.

    If the limescale is so bad that it restricts the water flow to a level that has the water temperature hotter, which of course does happen, a client will not think that is better than the clear can, becasue the same conditions can be created with a new shower.

    You are not get my point. We seem a little closer because you say that the same conditions can be created in a new shower (to keep the client happy). If I have to create conditions to get the same result then obviously the old shower was hotter.
    TThe client might have gotten hot water at say number 2 out of 10. Now she wants to know why she has to put it on maybe number 4. She feels the older is better. Of course I can fool her by taking cover off moving the dial slightly, put cover on & she has hot water on number 2 again.
    I'd rather be honest & explain that her old shower was overheating due to limescale & that this shower will perform in the same manner in a few years.

    AAll tests on an electric shower should be made without the head. Only testing with the head last.


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    #67
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    Bruthal wrote: »

    The water can of course still be hotter, but thats because its flow is getting restricted.

    Would a restriction for example a partially blocked head cause a shower to run hotter?


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    #68
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,092 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    suirvale wrote: »
    ITS TRITON T90 si,.its old but never used much,.i just am not rich at moment to buy new one thanks,.

    www.dublinshowerrepair.com do online sales
    I'm also pretty sure if you phone triton (earthridge) that you can pay over the phone and they will post


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    #69
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,092 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »
    Would a restriction for example a partially blocked head cause a shower to run hotter?

    It can be. Usually the client will tell you that the thermostat is gone (even though the shower won't have one) because the temperature will be hard to control.
    In short a blocked head or filter usually makes shower go hot and cold rather than just too hot


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    #70
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »
    Would a restriction for example a partially blocked head cause a shower to run hotter?

    It does. Think of it this way. The electric shower puts 8.5kw of heat into the water. That is fixed. The aim is a certain temperature output.

    The way to vary the temperature is vary the flow rate. Slow the rate, increase the temperature. Turning the temperature dial up simply reduces water flow.

    A clogged head also reduces flow. So the shower now is restricted from getting as cool as it did. Its lower range is cut off.


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    #71
    Big Davey
    Registered Users Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Big Davey


    I think my fuse is gone in my shower where is the best place to get one it used to click and then it would work again now it won't work at all so I would like to give the fuse a shot any advice please ?





    Bruthal wrote: »
    You would think I was asking the question?? I already answered early in the thread that element scale is likely

    The second one is a fuse. It needs to be replaced when it goes. It is the first one which only disconnects half the element, which trips in my one, and many others.

    As I said, it can happen in any shower due to residual element heat into heat can at switch off.


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    #72
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,092 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Big Davey wrote: »
    I think my fuse is gone in my shower where is the best place to get one it used to click and then it would work again now it won't work at all so I would like to give the fuse a shot any advice please ?

    What is wrong with the shower? What happens when you turn it on?


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    #73
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    You are not get my point. We seem a little closer because you say that the same conditions can be created in a new shower (to keep the client happy). If I have to create conditions to get the same result then obviously the old shower was hotter
    Hotter does not = better performance unless it also = at least the same litres per minute.

    But this next quote is impossible to be true. And that is where the confusion is. You simply can not have a higher flow rate, and keep the same temperature, compared to a new can. That simply is not possible.

    What is happening is, the old can was indeed hotter, due to restricted flow. That is not better performance. Yet you say the client feels the old can was better, and give a detailed description in the following quote to backup the clients belief, suggesting you also believe it performs better. You even say it has faster flow. Now if it has faster flow like you describe, and is just as hot, then clearly you are saying it is performing better. Which simply is not possible.
    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    quite often the client feels that the damaged shower was better than the new one. This is because Less water fits into the scaled heating can. Obviously if the can holds only half the amount of water as the new one then it heats the water quicker. This means you get a much quicker flow of water & therefore much better pressure while still getting hot water.

    But then you say the old can is not better, the client just thinks it is, hence....
    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    I never said I thought the old can was better. I said that the client feels it's better.
    Clearly if by the above explanation you gave, you do believe the lower volume can does make the water flow faster and give better pressure, then there is a contradiction there.

    The only faster flow rate would be in a smaller can itself. That is not a faster flow output from the shower though.


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    #74
    John T Carroll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 757 ✭✭✭John T Carroll


    Bruthal wrote: »
    Any electric shower has a lot of residual heat in the element at the moment it is turned off, as well as the water in the heating can also hot.


    In my own t90, the overheat stat clicks most times it is used, just after it is switched off, and resets when it cools. Likely some limescale not helping matters.

    Also if the element has any limescale on it, it wont get the full cooling effect of the water on it during use, so when you turn it off, the element will already be a bit hotter than if it had no scale on it.


    All in all, the nature of electric showers means there is a lot of heat in the element at the moment of switch off, and water in the heating can at around 40c or so now not flowing, which then gets the heat from the element transferred into it.

    Turn the shower to the cold setting after each use with the heat selector before switching off, and let run for 20 seconds or so, which can avoid the problem.

    Mine, a Mira Sport does much the same even though the manual states that water is allowed to flow for a few seconds after the shower is switched off to cool down the element(s) and allow immediate reuse of the shower. Well it doesnt and never has. For up to 5 minutes afterwards, if the shower is switched back on then the overtemp stat will cycle on/off a few times and then settle down. I dont really find this a problem and I only notice it when giving the shower cubicle a wash down after having a shower.The Mira Sport doesnt have an overtemp warning light.There is no problem with limescale as I have a 42 year old electric immersion which I reinstalled in a new cylinder a few years ago and the elements were spotless.


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    #75
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Anyway, enough of showers for one day:)


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    #76
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    John T Carroll wrote: »
    Mine, a Mira Sport does much the same even though the manual states that water is allowed to flow for a few seconds after the shower is switched off to cool down the element(s) and allow immediate reuse of the shower. Well it doesnt and never has. For up to 5 minutes afterwards, if the shower is switched back on then the overtemp stat will cycle on/off a few times and then settle down. I dont really find this a problem and I only notice it when giving the shower cubicle a wash down after having a shower.The Mira Sport doesnt have an overtemp warning light.There is no problem with limescale as I have a 42 year old electric immersion which I reinstalled in a new cylinder a few years ago and the elements were spotless.

    Yea its happened on my t90 for as long as I can remember now. I dont think the stat clicking after switch off is uncommon. Switching the shower to cold with the element selector switch while it is still running, for 20 seconds would eliminate it anyway.


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    #77
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,092 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Bruthal wrote: »
    Hotter does not = better performance unless it also = at least the same litres per minute.

    But this next quote is impossible to be true. And that is where the confusion is. You simply can not have a higher flow rate, and keep the same temperature, compared to a new can. That simply is not possible.

    What is happening is, the old can was indeed hotter, due to restricted flow. That is not better performance. Yet you say the client feels the old can was better, and give a detailed description in the following quote to backup the clients belief, suggesting you also believe it performs better. You even say it has faster flow. Now if it has faster flow like you describe, and is just as hot, then clearly you are saying it is performing better. Which simply is not possible.



    But then you say the old can is not better, the client just thinks it is, hence....

    Clearly if by the above explanation you gave, you do believe the lower volume can does make the water flow faster and give better pressure, then there is a contradiction there.

    The only faster flow rate would be in a smaller can itself. That is not a faster flow output from the shower though.

    I give up. You can't seem to grasp what I am saying. Editing the comments aren't helping either. :(


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    #78
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    You can't seem to grasp what I am saying.


    You`re right there.


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    #79
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Editing the comments aren't helping either. :(

    All I did was add extra thoughts, I changed nothing. So thats a pointless statement.

    I even added in an explanation for your immersion mystery, as an edit. I hope that didnt add to the confusion of apparent energy for free there:)


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    #80
    newbie13
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭newbie13


    Bruthal wrote: »
    Turn the shower to the cold setting after each use with the heat selector before switching off, and let run for 20 seconds or so, which can avoid the problem.

    I do yes, It doesnt help.


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    #81
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    newbie13 wrote: »
    I do yes, It doesnt help.

    I mean turn the heat element off completely. I dont mean turn the temperature dial down.


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    #82
    newbie13
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭newbie13


    Bruthal wrote: »
    I mean turn the heat element off completely. I dont mean turn the temperature dial down.

    Yes, I understand you well. but no help.

    Can I ask you that is that limescale on element can be cleaned off ?

    Does it worth to replace the whole shower with a new one or call a qualified shower doctor?

    he may charge me expensive labour?

    I don`t like too hot water when I am in shower. But this shower makes boiling sound even during the day. I hear it inside water boils.

    than I turn off the main switch from ceiling. Is the dangerous to do ?


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    #83
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    I dont know. Boiling when its switched off sounds like a wind up:pac:

    Probably better off with new shower anyway. Mira or t90


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    #84
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,092 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    newbie13 wrote: »
    Yes, I understand you well. but no help.

    Can I ask you that is that limescale on element can be cleaned off ?

    Does it worth to replace the whole shower with a new one or call a qualified shower doctor?

    he may charge me expensive labour?

    I don`t like too hot water when I am in shower. But this shower makes boiling sound even during the day. I hear it inside water boils.

    than I turn off the main switch from ceiling. Is the dangerous to do ?

    It'll cost around €150 parts and labour to pay someone to replace the element. If the shower is more than 7 years old you would be better off fitting a new shower.


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    #85
    newbie13
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭newbie13


    is there any Irish web site for shower spare parts ?


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    #86
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,092 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    newbie13 wrote: »
    is there any Irish web site for shower spare parts ?

    If you google shower Parts Ireland or triton shower Parts Ireland, you will find at least two Irish online sites.
    IIf you ring triton they will post out to you & you can pay over the phone


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    #87
    newbie13
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭newbie13


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    they will post out to you & you can pay over the phone

    which part or element needs to be changed? can you look at the picture?


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    #88
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,092 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    newbie13 wrote: »
    which part or element needs to be changed? can you look at the picture?

    I'm not trying to be smart but if you don't know yourself then you probably should get someone else to do it.
    Water and electricity are dangerous together.


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    #89
    newbie13
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭newbie13


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Water and electricity are dangerous together.
    thanks for warning . I was thinking to get ready the part for the plumber guy to speed up process.


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    #90
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,092 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    newbie13 wrote: »
    thanks for warning . I was thinking to get ready the part for the plumber guy to speed up process.

    A proper shower repair company should be able to supply the part cheaper than you can buy it online. Also they will bring one with them.
    I'd be surprised if you can't get a company to supply & fit the part by tomorrow evening.


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    #91
    John T Carroll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 757 ✭✭✭John T Carroll


    newbie13 wrote: »
    Hi All,

    I have the Galaxy G9000 Electric wall shower in my bathroom since the house was built.

    It always turn on the " Overheat Increase Flow " light after I turn off the shower.Most of the time the "Light" stays on with Overheat Increase flow. There are two light on the shower 1 is for the POWER 2nd for Overheat.

    It doesnt come up during I have bath.After I finish my bath,I turn off the shower in 4-5 second I hear something inside boiling then this light come up.

    I have tried to cool down the water flow before I turn off,then turn off the switch.

    I turn off from main switch from which is on the ceiling.Is this dangerous to do it ?
    I dont know how to deal with. Is there anyone with experienced with these Electric Power showers. ?
    thanks

    Even though I've read all the posts a few times you just might consider doing the following.
    Run the shower normally for a few minutes then just kill the power by switching off the ceiling switch ONLY, (do not press the start/stop switch on the shower) and see if the symptoms are still the same. (Yes I know the power shouldnt be switched off this way but it might tell you something.)


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