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Electric Shower Overheating issue

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    #92
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,092 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    John T Carroll wrote: »
    Even though I've read all the posts a few times you just might consider doing the following.
    Run the shower normally for a few minutes then just kill the power by switching off the ceiling switch ONLY, (do not press the start/stop switch on the shower) and see if the symptoms are still the same. (Yes I know the power shouldnt be switched off this way but it might tell you something.)

    The only thing that will tell you is that the pull cord switch is working.

    I know there was a long discussion / debate that got this thread off track but putting that aside we all agreed from the start that it is the element.
    IIt's not a loose wire, faulty switch or anything else. It is server limescale build up. This can not be descaled.
    That was sorted out on the first page. ☺

    Also op said in opening comments that he always turns the shower off by the pull cord


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    #93
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    newbie13 wrote: »
    Yes, I understand you well. but no help.

    How long do you leave cold water flow for?
    I don`t like too hot water when I am in shower. But this shower makes boiling sound even during the day. I hear it inside water boils.

    Even with the pull cord switch off?


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    #94
    newbie13
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭newbie13


    Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »
    How long do you leave cold water flow for?



    Even with the pull cord switch off?



    I leave the cold water run about up to 1 minute.

    No, I never pull down the main switch cord from ceiling to Turn Off to shower. I first turn off from its own power lever than when I see it is going boiling & light up "Overheating" I than pull cord from ceiling.


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    #95
    John T Carroll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 757 ✭✭✭John T Carroll


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    The only thing that will tell you is that the pull cord switch is working.

    I know there was a long discussion / debate that got this thread off track but putting that aside we all agreed from the start that it is the element.
    IIt's not a loose wire, faulty switch or anything else. It is server limescale build up. This can not be descaled.
    That was sorted out on the first page. ☺

    Also op said in opening comments that he always turns the shower off by the pull cord

    This is part of his opening comment.......(see above)
    "It doesnt come up during I have bath.After I finish my bath,I turn off the shower in 4-5 second I hear something inside boiling then this light come up."

    So if he switches off using the ceiling switch only how does the warning light illuminate on the shower panel which, in my opinion, should be dead?.

    The reason I made that suggestion is that when switching off normally, a soledoid valve de energises and a pressure switch should stop the water flow and open the contact(s) on the heating elements.
    It might be just possible that the heating element contacts are not opening and that the overtemp stat(s) are operating until the ceiling switch is pulled.

    So I would like to pose the question again, does the "boiling" noise still occur when the ceiling switch only is pulled?


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    #96
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    Is there a faulty flow switch in the shower maybe?


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    #97
    newbie13
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭newbie13


    John T Carroll wrote: »
    So if he switches off using the ceiling switch only how does the warning light illuminate on the shower panel which, in my opinion, should be dead?.

    when the ceiling switch only is pulled?

    Sorry, There is misunderstanding here.

    I never turn of the shower by pulling cord . After I am out from bath I see the light is on than I pull the cord to stop making boiling noise.

    When ceiling cord is pulled , nothing happens.All lights gone.


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    #98
    John T Carroll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 757 ✭✭✭John T Carroll


    newbie13 wrote: »
    I leave the cold water run about up to 1 minute.

    No, I never pull down the main switch cord from ceiling to Turn Off to shower. I first turn off from its own power lever than when I see it is going boiling & light up "Overheating" I than pull cord from ceiling.

    Okay, thanks for that, you might just consider doing it only from the ceiling switch and see what happens??


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    #99
    newbie13
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭newbie13


    Thank you very much to all who put their experience on this thread.

    I think , I will get a proper plumber to have look at it & replace whatever it is faulty first thing in da morning.

    thanks again. " O P ".


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    #100
    John T Carroll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 757 ✭✭✭John T Carroll


    Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »
    Is there a faulty flow switch in the shower maybe?

    That would certainly be high on my suspect list. Whoever looks at it should have electrical knowledge as well maybe.


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    #101
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,092 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    newbie13 wrote: »
    Thank you very much to all who put their experience on this thread.

    I think , I will get a proper plumber to have look at it & replace whatever it is faulty first thing in da morning.

    thanks again. " O P ".

    If you go with a proper shower repair company rather than a plumber they should have the parts needed with them. If you get a plumber or electrician they would most likely have to call & have a look, order the part (you won't buy this at a plumbing trade counter) & come back a few days later.


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    #102
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    John T Carroll wrote: »
    That would certainly be high on my suspect list. Whoever looks at it should have electrical knowledge as well maybe.

    A few checks with a multi meter would confirm this. Is the pressure switch assembly occasionally sticking which in turn closing the micro switches?


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    #103
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »
    Is there a faulty flow switch in the shower maybe?

    There is no actual flow switch as such. Its a pressure switch. I suppose we could say its a type of flow switch though. But if you take the head off the hose, the elements can go off, especially if you put the hose end down into bath, because this reduces pressure on the pressure switch, even though flow rate increases.

    When you switch on the switch or push button on a shower, all you are switching is the pump and solenoid, and in the op case, its just the solenoid as its a mains fed shower I think.

    When the solenoid opens, water flows, pressure switch closes, and that is what does the heavy switching on of the elements.

    It is likely this shower has limescale buildup. Someone who knows what they are doing could descale it. But like was said earlier, I don't think its that unusual for showers to trip the overheat cutout after use.

    But it shouldn't be doing it after turning elements off for a minute and leaving shower running cold.

    Confirming the problem by actual examination is needed. But the kettle sound does indicate scale buildup.


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    #104
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Bruthal wrote: »
    Its a pressure switch. I suppose we could say its a type of flow switch though.

    As it operates when a pressure setpoint is reached and does not require movement of water (i.e. flow) to switch I would call it a pressure switch and not a flow switch.


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    #105
    John T Carroll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 757 ✭✭✭John T Carroll


    Bruthal wrote: »
    There is no actual flow switch as such. Its a pressure switch. I suppose we could say its a type of flow switch though. But if you take the head off the hose, the elements can go off, especially if you put the hose end down into bath, because this reduces pressure on the pressure switch, even though flow rate increases.

    When you switch on the switch or push button on a shower, all you are switching is the pump and solenoid, and in the op case, its just the solenoid as its a mains fed shower I think.

    When the solenoid opens, water flows, pressure switch closes, and that is what does the heavy switching on of the elements.

    It is likely this shower has limescale buildup. Someone who knows what they are doing could descale it. But like was said earlier, I don't think its that unusual for showers to trip the overheat cutout after use.

    But it shouldn't be doing it after turning elements off for a minute and leaving shower running cold.

    Confirming the problem by actual examination is needed. But the kettle sound does indicate scale buildup.

    Newbie13 says that there is a "boiling sound even during the day", if that means that there is kettling going on while taking a shower then its certainly indicative of scaling. If not, then its indicative of a pressure switch/contacts problem.....as you say, taking off the cover and carrying out a few tests should reveal all.


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    #106
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    John T Carroll wrote: »
    Newbie13 says that there is a "boiling sound even during the day", if that means that there is kettling going on while taking a shower then its certainly indicative of scaling. If not, then its indicative of a pressure switch/contacts problem.....as you say, taking off the cover and carrying out a few tests should reveal all.
    The heating can and water does get hotter after switch off all the same in any shower. So kettle sound only after switch off is possible either way.

    A good out descale is what I'd do myself anyway if it was my shower, once all else seems OK


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    #107
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    2011 wrote: »
    As it operates when a pressure setpoint is reached and does not require movement of water (i.e. flow) to switch I would call it a pressure switch and not a flow switch.

    Well it's very obviously actually a pressure switch.


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    #108
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,595 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Bruthal wrote: »
    Well it's very obviously actually a pressure switch.


    ....and I am just explaining why I disagree with those that refer to it as a "flow switch".


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    #109
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    2011 wrote: »
    ....and I am just explaining why I disagree with those that refer to it as a "flow switch".

    Yea I know. In a shower setup though, it is used to detect water flow. It's assumed the shower head and hose are open at all times so pressure at the pressure switch means water is flowing.

    But the device is purely a pressure switch. A flow switch could be used but pressure switch is better at having a reliable set point to detect any certain level of dynamic pressure. Where as flow switches are usually used to detect any flow.


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    #110
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,092 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Just to confuse matters a little, Galaxy call their switch a pressure switch, Triton is Pressure switch but if you want to order one from Mira you have to ask for a flow control valve.
    Pressure switch in my mind


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    #111
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    I was referring to a different part in the post that i thought was the flow switch, its technical name is flow valve. There is a flow valve in the shower also, this is where i used that wording from as some people call that a flow switch.
    This is a different part to the pressure switch assembly that i referred to later as which is more likely the culprit of the problem rather than the flow valve.


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    #112
    John T Carroll
    Closed Accounts Posts: 757 ✭✭✭John T Carroll


    Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »
    I was referring to a different part in the post that i thought was the flow switch, its technical name is flow valve. There is a flow valve in the shower also, this is where i used that wording from as some people call that a flow switch.
    This is a different part to the pressure switch assembly that i referred to later as which is more likely the culprit of the problem rather than the flow valve.

    The Spare Parts List in the Installation and User Guide for a 7 year old 9.8 KW Mira Sport (mine) lists a "Switching Assembly" and a "Flow Valve Assembly". The "Switching Assembly" is obviously the pressure switch assembly that you are referring to above, but I think everyone is in agreement that in simple terms that its a pressure switch that closes/opens the heating element(s) contactors.


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    #113
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Just to confuse matters a little, Galaxy call their switch a pressure switch, Triton is Pressure switch but if you want to order one from Mira you have to ask for a flow control valve.
    Pressure switch in my mind

    Dont Triton refer the flow valve as a flow switch?


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    #114
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,092 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    If you are looking at the Triton T90xr on showerdoc uk website it does say flow valve assembly but The Triton user manual calls it Pressure switch.
    Technically they can be call either because you have both in the same unit. Miras flow control unit does control the flow ( it also houses the pressure switch). Same with Triton, Their pressure switch is part of unit that controls the flow ow the water. So when you buy a pressure device / Pressure switch you are also buying the flow control.
    Its never as simple as it seems:)


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    #115
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,092 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    John T Carroll wrote: »
    The Spare Parts List in the Installation and User Guide for a 7 year old 9.8 KW Mira Sport (mine) lists a "Switching Assembly" and a "Flow Valve Assembly". The "Switching Assembly" is obviously the pressure switch assembly that you are referring to above, but I think everyone is in agreement that in simple terms that its a pressure switch that closes/opens the heating element(s) contactors.


    Miras flow valve assembly has the pressure switch in the assembly. The switching assembly is ONLY for the switching the micro switch to turn on the element. these micro switches always come AFTER the pressure device


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    #116
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    micro switches always come AFTER the pressure device
    You would have fun trying to wire a single pole switch after a multi selector switch, so it's obvious that the pressure switch is likely to be before it really.


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    #117
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,092 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Bruthal wrote: »
    You would have fun trying to wire a single pole switch after a multi selector switch, so it's obvious that the pressure switch is likely to be before it really.


    Thats what I said. Didn't I?
    I was explaining to John T Carroll because he seems confused on it.


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    #118
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Thats what I said. Didn't I?
    It would be no harm to point out why when you say pressure switch is always before selector. Especially when you emphasise the "after" word.

    You forgot to tell him there is no contactor switching the elements. The pressure switch does it directly.


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    #119
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,092 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Bruthal wrote: »
    It would be no harm to point out why when you say pressure switch is always before selector. Especially when you emphasise the "after" word.

    You forgot to tell him there is no contactor switching the elements. The pressure switch does it directly.


    ok. pressure switch activates the Switching Assembly in the mira shower he is talking about. He was mistaken in thinking that the Switching Assembly was the pressure switch.

    Thanks for the lessons on how to reply to someones comment. We'd be lost without you. :D


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    #120
    Sir Arthur Daley
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,720 ✭✭✭Sir Arthur Daley


    Bruthal wrote: »
    It would be no harm to point out why when you say pressure switch is always before selector.

    When you say selector you mean flow switch (valve) depending if your quoting mira/triton termonology?


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    #121
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,092 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »
    Dont Triton refer the flow valve as a flow switch?


    I have to come back to your question again because after looking at a few Triton manuals it turns out that you are right. Triton t90si manual says Pressure switch. Triton T90xr (the next model) they call it the flow valve.
    As I said earlier they can be called either because they all have a pressure switch and a flow control (they control the flow of the water)


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