friends son is turning into a brat.

I wasn't sure if this should be here or if its a personal issue, decided to seek advice from parents. Mods, you can move if you like.
My best friends son is spoilt.
She is separated from her husband with 3 young kids, the oldest lad is nearly 7.

The thing is she is a very laid back type of person, always has been. She doesn't think anything of her house being dirty, not just untidy but dirty. There have been cobwebs in the same places for months, cooker is always filthy etc etc
Now, that's the way she is and I don't judge her for that. We shared places when we were young and we get along fine. I am the opposite though, in fact I clean her house. She doesn't mind, I think she quite likes it.

Anyway, she is very laid back with the kids, in one way this is good, but the oldest lad is turning into a right brat. He has no set bedtime, he plays on the PlayStation all evening, he plays whatever he wants, including over18 games. Eventually he goes to sleep. He has to be dragged out of bed in the morning and acts like a moody teenager all day.

He doesn't appreciate anything that's given to him or anywhere he is brought. All he does is look for the next thing.
I brought him and his younger siblings out for the day recently, all he did was moan, wanting to go home. He ruined the day for me and his siblings.
He does whatever he wants, he knows there are no repercussions.

My friend said to me that they don't listen to her, she gives out but no one listens. I believe that's because she never backs anything up with actions. She just gives in. All the time. For a quiet life.

Now, that's fine for her if she is happy living like that but this kid is wrecking my head! And I can only see him getting worse.

I know lots of other kids, from 2 to 19, so I have seen plenty of friends raise kids.
I think this one is going to get worse.

Sorry for the long post, my question for parents is this,
How would you take it if your best friend told you they believed that your parenting was having a bad affect on your sons behaviour.
She is my best friend, I don't want to upset her and I know its a thin line.
So what can I do? Or do I just leave it?

diveout

bubblypop wrote: »

I wasn't sure if this should be here or if its a personal issue, decided to seek advice from parents. Mods, you can move if you like.
My best friends son is spoilt.
She is separated from her husband with 3 young kids, the oldest lad is nearly 7.

The thing is she is a very laid back type of person, always has been. She doesn't think anything of her house being dirty, not just untidy but dirty. There have been cobwebs in the same places for months, cooker is always filthy etc etc
Now, that's the way she is and I don't judge her for that. We shared places when we were young and we get along fine. I am the opposite though, in fact I clean her house. She doesn't mind, I think she quite likes it.

Anyway, she is very laid back with the kids, in one way this is good, but the oldest lad is turning into a right brat. He has no set bedtime, he plays on the PlayStation all evening, he plays whatever he wants, including over18 games. Eventually he goes to sleep. He has to be dragged out of bed in the morning and acts like a moody teenager all day.

He doesn't appreciate anything that's given to him or anywhere he is brought. All he does is look for the next thing.
I brought him and his younger siblings out for the day recently, all he did was moan, wanting to go home. He ruined the day for me and his siblings.
He does whatever he wants, he knows there are no repercussions.

My friend said to me that they don't listen to her, she gives out but no one listens. I believe that's because she never backs anything up with actions. She just gives in. All the time. For a quiet life.

Now, that's fine for her if she is happy living like that but this kid is wrecking my head! And I can only see him getting worse.

I know lots of other kids, from 2 to 19, so I have seen plenty of friends raise kids.
I think this one is going to get worse.

Sorry for the long post, my question for parents is this,
How would you take it if your best friend told you they believed that your parenting was having a bad affect on your sons behaviour.
She is my best friend, I don't want to upset her and I know its a thin line.
So what can I do? Or do I just leave it?

I would say, unless you are willing to pay for me to see a family systems therapist, butt out.

Dolbert

+1, there's no way you can say it 'nicely', as true as it may be. It's not your place.

Hello Lady!

I disagree. I think this whole 'oh don't offend the parents' attitude does neither the kids or the parent any favours. As a single parent she has to carry pretty much all the burden of parenting and boys of that age can be particularly challenging. But pretending there is no issue isn't going to help anyone.

so I think you possibly should say something. But not in a 'your childs a brat, you need to sort it' approach. Maybe a more diplomatic approach to start off with. The boy is probably also feeling some effects of the break up of his parents.

you say he was hard work when you were out, so by all means tell her that. But you can't say something and then not offer support. If you are prepared to help her in some way to tackle the problem, even if its just to listen and support her without judging her, then say something. she may really benefit from someone to talk to about it. But to be honest OP I don't think you will offer non-judgmental support. you say you don't judge her for her housekeeping but the tone of your post says otherwise. the fact you even mention it says a lot because, lets face it, the cleanliness of her cooker has sweet FA to do with her discipline of her son.

Most likely if you were to genuinely offer support and help to her she would seek your advice, help or opinions and would open up to you. But seeing as your post indicates that you just think shes too lazy to keep her house clean and parent her kids properly, I would say in your case, its best if you don't say anything.

Mardy Bum

diveout wrote: »

I would say, unless you are willing to pay for me to see a family systems therapist, butt out.

Every teacher will be telling her at PT meetings for the next 11 years for free most probably only she will be so sick of hearing it she will be immune to it. Early intervention is important.

Chattastrophe!

bubblypop wrote: »

in fact I clean her house. She doesn't mind, I think she quite likes it.

If someone came around to my house and started cleaning it, I might act like I didn't mind, I might even act happy or grateful (out of politeness), but inwardly I'd be seething and mortified.

Maybe some people would appreciate it - personally, I'd be absolutely raging. My boyfriend's mother did this once - completely rearranged our whole kitchen just after we'd moved into a new house - I felt pretty much violated!

If I want a cleaner, I'll pay for one. It's really not cool to go into someone's house and indirectly insult their standards like that.

bubblypop wrote: »

Now, that's fine for her if she is happy living like that but this kid is wrecking my head! And I can only see him getting worse.

I don't understand this. She's the one who actually has to live with the kid - let her determine what is and isn't appropriate behaviour - if the kid is "wrecking your head", there is no need for you to be anywhere around him!

lulu1

I would say nothing she is not stupid she knows what he is like and why. But I would tell him to behave himself and stop moaning when you take him out or he will stay at home

Hello Lady!

I also suspect OP doesn't have kids - personally i think unless you have actual experience of raising kids its a bit rich to label a child a brat and head wrecker based on your limited interaction with him.

OK, so I appreciate the replies, I think I need to address some things.
We have been friends for over 25 years, we have no problem talking about anything with each other.
I do not believe she is lazy, she is definitely NOT lazy, she just doesn't see any importance in the cleaning/tidying thing. I do not judge her and believe me she has no problem with me cleaning. She tells me I'm a clean freak, we joke about how different we are. I just meant this as a background to try explain just how laid back she is.
I'm not judging her at all.

She is my best friend, we talk about her kids and as she is single now we very rarely see each other without the kids bring there.
I'm godparent to one of them.

I love these kids, like they are my own. I just don't like the way I see this lad taking advantage, and honestly he is getting bratty.
He was always a lovely lad, very sensitive and loving but I can see this changing.

Teachers have said he is always tired in school.
We do talk about them and I have no problem helping out as much as I can.
I just think its time he learnt some manners/ more discipline.
I mean he isn't going to be a cute little child much longer, I worry he is turning into an obnoxious little brat. I don't want to see that.

But maybe ye are right, I should just say nothing.

Chattastrophe!

Chattastrophe! wrote: »

I don't understand this. She's the one who actually has to live with the kid - let her determine what is and isn't appropriate behaviour - if the kid is "wrecking your head", there is no need for you to be anywhere around him!

Well that's not really true, I mostly see her in her home or mine and the kids are always there.

Hello Lady!

Hello Lady! wrote: »

I also suspect OP doesn't have kids - personally i think unless you have actual experience of raising kids its a bit rich to label a child a brat and head wrecker based on your limited interaction with him.

Yes, I knew this would come up, and I know this is an issue.
But I spend a lot of time with these kids as well as having other friends who have kids, aged from 2 to 19, as well as kids in my family.
I see how other kids behave towards their parents.
He isn't a bad lad, I can just see his behaviour changing for the worst.

diveout

bubblypop wrote: »

Yes, I knew this would come up, and I know this is an issue.
But I spend a lot of time with these kids as well as having other friends who have kids, aged from 2 to 19, as well as kids in my family.
I see how other kids behave towards their parents.
He isn't a bad lad, I can just see his behaviour changing for the worst.

Were you ever a child in a divorced family where your mother's attention was taken up by two smallies and your life was one of a constant revolving door of suitcases in the hallway?

You sound way too judgemental to be anyway near ready to talk to her about this.

diveout

diveout wrote: »

Were you ever a child in a divorced family where your mother's attention was taken up by two smallies and your life was one of a constant revolving door of suitcases in the hallway?

You sound way too judgemental to be anyway near ready to talk to her about this.

Yes, I grew up in a one parent family with an alcoholic father.

bisset

She has said to you that her kids don't listen to her . She might find it helpful to meet with other single parents in a parenting course. I suppose it would be difficult for you to suggest it. It might be worth your while to look at the likes of John Sharry's column in Irish Times or David Coleman's radio and tv talks. Then you can say "did you see that program.. What do you think about that child's behaviour and how they dealt with it" Her response would give you an idea as to whether she thinks she needs help or not. if you find the seven year old difficult to deal with maybe you could take the younger kids on an outing. This could give her the chance to have 1 to 1 with him.

bisset

bisset wrote: »

She has said to you that her kids don't listen to her . She might find it helpful to meet with other single parents in a parenting course. I suppose it would be difficult for you to suggest it. It might be worth your while to look at the likes of John Sharry's column in Irish Times or David Coleman's radio and tv talks. Then you can say "did you see that program.. What do you think about that child's behaviour and how they dealt with it" Her response would give you an idea as to whether she thinks she needs help or not. if you find the seven year old difficult to deal with maybe you could take the younger kids on an outing. This could give her the chance to have 1 to 1 with him.

Thank you, this is good advice and why I posted on the parenting forum.

Suucee

My best friend split up from her partner a few months back and all the up heavel has really messed up her daughter (my godchild) who is only 3. The father has court ordered acess though. Anyway i know shes struggling and ive told her tips that i use re avoiding tantrums etc but no good.
I recently heard of a course called triple P. Its a free parenting course so i suggested the 2 of us do it together. She has looked in to it and waiting for the next sessions to run. So maybe something along those lines might help.

ash23

There's also a good course called "Rainbows" which is for children who are going through divorce or bereavement. It's really very good.

If she has mentioned that she is struggling, maybe suggest that you both contact the local Family Resource Centre and see if there are any positive parenting courses for her and things like the Rainbow program for him.

I think you might need to adjust how you think of him. He has been through a lot and she isn't providing him any structure. I feel sorry for him really. She needs to get her act together and you can help her with this by helping her with solutions as opposed to just telling her what she already knows which is that his behaviour is a problem.

nicowa

diveout wrote: »

Were you ever a child in a divorced family where your mother's attention was taken up by two smallies and your life was one of a constant revolving door of suitcases in the hallway?

You sound way too judgemental to be anyway near ready to talk to her about this.

Ignoring the behaviour will lead to the behaviours getting worse. She's laid back now but when he's a teen and has decided mummy can't have a say any more how will she manage? She hasn't (or isn't) laying down the groundwork. (My interpretation of what's been said here anyway).

I've seen this happen - single mum with kids and the oldest bit goes off his rocker with rebellion. Nice most of the time and then ridiculously scary when he's told no.

I wouldn't let it happen.

PLL

There are a chance she herself may be a little depressed after the split, which might explain the comment you made about her giving in for an easy life. Others have given great advice here on counselling etc. If it were be and my best friend was concerned I would really appreciate her telling me and helping me. Maybe at first it might make me feel like a bit of a failure but just assure her she has been through a lot and it will get better. She is your best friend OP, do all you can for her.

Heatmachine1

That child needs a rude awakening,I would clip his wings and take the playststion off him for a start.
Implement a strict bed time,chores and no way would he be allowed talk back.
My wife would never tolerate disrespect to elders nor do I.
Its going to get worse,I have seen similar but luckily my friend intervened and put his kid on the right path with a disciplined routine.

The Corinthian

Well what you've described is laziness, even if you reject the description yourself. She's doesn't consider, from what you say, basic hygiene around the house important. She's laid back with, that is, not bothered to correct, her children. It sounds pretty much like laziness to me.

And it will likely cause her problems as her kids become rebellious teenagers. Potentially serious ones.

Given this, like everyone else here, I feel it's not your place to say anything. More correctly, it'll make no difference and likely just cause conflict between you. If she's a SAHM, then you'll essentially be telling her that she's a failure at what she does for a vocation and given her ex has probably already used this in arguments with her, your doing so will really hit a nerve.

Sometimes in life, you will see your friends happily waving from their car as they pass, on their way to hit a brick wall. But often - as with the friend who may have married someone you know will end in divorce, or may have made some life changing decision you know will end in disaster - there's nothing you can really say or do but watch the whole car crash in slow motion from the sidelines.

goz83

Heatmachine1 wrote: »

That child needs a rude awakening,I would clip his wings and take the playststion off him for a start.
Implement a strict bed time,chores and no way would he be allowed talk back.
My wife would never tolerate disrespect to elders nor do I.
Its going to get worse,I have seen similar but luckily my friend intervened and put his kid on the right path with a disciplined routine.

No, the mother needs a rude awakening. Her laid back, easy life attitude is damaging her son and the siblings will follow his example.

While I agree with the advice you gave, I think you're directing it at the wrong person. The child is behaving like a brat, because his mother lacks discipline. It's mild neglect, not to have structure and routine in a childs life, especially when it comes to a bed time.

OP, your friend will have a very difficult time unless she acts now. Her son is 7. Still time to act. My brother lets his 8 year old walk all over him. Aside from losing his temper and shouting at the kid from time to time, he does very little in the name of proper discipline. He is my nephew and I am ashamed to say that I dislike having him around, because he is very bold. The problem is almost non-existent if his mum or dad are not around, because myself and my OH have no problem putting him in his place (with parental consent). I have 4 kids aged 1 to 11 and it's not always easy keeping on top of discipline, but I swear to God that it has been worth it, even though it's a daily battle. Bed times, meal times, games console times and punishments are all just part of proper parenting :P

sleepytrees

bubblypop wrote: »

I wasn't sure if this should be here or if its a personal issue, decided to seek advice from parents. Mods, you can move if you like.
My best friends son is spoilt.
She is separated from her husband with 3 young kids, the oldest lad is nearly 7.

The thing is she is a very laid back type of person, always has been. She doesn't think anything of her house being dirty, not just untidy but dirty. There have been cobwebs in the same places for months, cooker is always filthy etc etc
Now, that's the way she is and I don't judge her for that. We shared places when we were young and we get along fine. I am the opposite though, in fact I clean her house. She doesn't mind, I think she quite likes it.


Anyway, she is very laid back with the kids, in one way this is good, but the oldest lad is turning into a right brat. He has no set bedtime, he plays on the PlayStation all evening, he plays whatever he wants, including over18 games. Eventually he goes to sleep. He has to be dragged out of bed in the morning and acts like a moody teenager all day.

He doesn't appreciate anything that's given to him or anywhere he is brought. All he does is look for the next thing.
I brought him and his younger siblings out for the day recently, all he did was moan, wanting to go home. He ruined the day for me and his siblings.
He does whatever he wants, he knows there are no repercussions.

My friend said to me that they don't listen to her, she gives out but no one listens. I believe that's because she never backs anything up with actions. She just gives in. All the time. For a quiet life.

Now, that's fine for her if she is happy living like that but this kid is wrecking my head! And I can only see him getting worse.

I know lots of other kids, from 2 to 19, so I have seen plenty of friends raise kids.
I think this one is going to get worse.

Sorry for the long post, my question for parents is this,
How would you take it if your best friend told you they believed that your parenting was having a bad affect on your sons behaviour.
She is my best friend, I don't want to upset her and I know its a thin line.
So what can I do? Or do I just leave it?

but you are judging her. Are you a parent? Because if you are, I'd think you would understand that it isn't easy on children when their parents separate and they can act out. If you confront her, I think you will lose the friendship, also, are you sure she doesn't mind you cleaning her place? I'm sorry but you sound very judge mental.

sleepytrees

sleepytrees wrote: »

but you are judging her. Are you a parent? Because if you are, I'd think you would understand that it isn't easy on children when their parents separate and they can act out. If you confront her, I think you will lose the friendship, also, are you sure she doesn't mind you cleaning her place? I'm sorry but you sound very judge mental.

No, I think I explained this already. We have been friends over 25 years, we don't judge each other, I like cleaning, she happens to think its not that important.
As I said we have shared places when we were younger, its not a problem.
She has always been like that.

Im just trying to explain how laid back she is, she just prioritises different things.

My issue was that her son is becoming bolder, he doesn't listen to her and I do think that it is because of her laid back way.
I don't want to see him getting into trouble later and I don't want to see her upset at all.

But having read through the replies I think its best not to say anything, we do talk about the kids and any problems, we are always honest with each other.
But I think I will wait and not make an issue out of this myself.
I'll just give her a hand/shoulder/whenever she needs it.

greengirl31

goz83 wrote: »

No, the mother needs a rude awakening. Her laid back, easy life attitude is damaging her son and the siblings will follow his example.

I'd agree with this but I think this might be difficult if not impossible for the OP to do.
OP my sister is similar with regard to cleanliness - it just isn't important to her and I've learned over the years to relax about it cause I'm a bit OCD :-) But she was a bit the same with her son - she'd be very laid back and would make all the threats in to world and never follow through. I would try to make suggestions to her in the subtlest way possible and she would take it on board for a little while but would run out of steam after a few days/weeks. How was she about discipline before the separation ??

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that this seems to be more your friends issue than the child. He doesn't know any better and he needs his Mum to show him how to behave properly. She's probably down from the separation which I'm sure is taking its toll on the kids also. Maybe try to have a chat with her and saying that you've noticed a change in the boys behaviour and that you know they're all going through a tough time at the moment and that you're willing to help. Suggest the courses mentioned here and say that you're willing to attend with her if she wants you to. However, tread carefully because most people object being told how to bring up their children but if she's as laid back and as good a friend as you say she may be open to suggestions ...
Best of luck