Round 4 Football Qualifiers

Pete_Cavan

Prop Joe wrote: »

Kerry v Galway
Mayo v Cork
Dublin v Monaghan/Kildare
Donegal v Armagh/Meath

All 1/4's would fit perfectly in each teams home venue

I think it would be a bit much to make the Cork team to travel up to Mayo for that match, you are talking about a 7 hour round trip, then you need time for warm up, match and food after, thats not fair to force that on amateur players who have made it to the QFs. Also, you wont have many Cork fans travelling which is not good either.

Really, these games should be fixed with a bit of common sense in mind - you need to look at logistics for both teams, maximising the attendance, etc. Not considering these will affect the game, the atmosphere and the product we want to promote. That is why I dont think hard and fast rules like automatically giving one team home advantage is a good idea. It would be very unfair to make Armagh travel to Kerry, or Cork to Donegal. It should be decided based on both counties involved, after all, it is their players who will be on the pitch and their supporters in the stands.

I still think Kerry v Galway and Mayo v Cork as a double header in the Gaelic Grounds is the best solution for all involved. It would cut at least an hour off the journey for those involved and hopefully entice a few more through the turnstile.

Nidgeweasel

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I think it would be a bit much to make the Cork team to travel up to Mayo for that match, you are talking about a 7 hour round trip, then you need time for warm up, match and food after, thats not fair to force that on amateur players who have made it to the QFs. Also, you wont have many Cork fans travelling which is not good either.

Really, these games should be fixed with a bit of common sense in mind - you need to look at logistics for both teams, maximising the attendance, etc. Not considering these will affect the game, the atmosphere and the product we want to promote. That is why I dont think hard and fast rules like automatically giving one team home advantage is a good idea. It would be very unfair to make Armagh travel to Kerry, or Cork to Donegal. It should be decided based on both counties involved, after all, it is their players who will be on the pitch and their supporters in the stands.

.

Win your province then.

K-9

iDave wrote: »

Non-Monaghan Ulster counties would have no problem nominating Clones as their home for a QF. Although when Casement is done there would be pressure on them to use that to justify its existence.

Casement is a fair bit away for Donegal, as indeed is Clones. Most counties have 25/30k stadia not too far away, Ulster is at a bit of a disadvantage that way. Its odd really, Ulster/Leinster counties get punished for having smaller, more realistic size grounds while Connacht and Munster, who have too many 30k+ stadia, benefit!

ciarriaithuaidh

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I think it would be a bit much to make the Cork team to travel up to Mayo for that match, you are talking about a 7 hour round trip, then you need time for warm up, match and food after, thats not fair to force that on amateur players who have made it to the QFs. Also, you wont have many Cork fans travelling which is not good either.

Really, these games should be fixed with a bit of common sense in mind - you need to look at logistics for both teams, maximising the attendance, etc. Not considering these will affect the game, the atmosphere and the product we want to promote. That is why I dont think hard and fast rules like automatically giving one team home advantage is a good idea. It would be very unfair to make Armagh travel to Kerry, or Cork to Donegal. It should be decided based on both counties involved, after all, it is their players who will be on the pitch and their supporters in the stands.

I still think Kerry v Galway and Mayo v Cork as a double header in the Gaelic Grounds is the best solution for all involved. It would cut at least an hour off the journey for those involved and hopefully entice a few more through the turnstile.

That would make perfect sense in this case, couldn't disagree.

Just on the "7 hour round trip to Mayo" thing...have a look at trip time for Allihies, Castletownbere, Bantry to Croke park..or from Waterville, Caherdaniel, Sneem to Croke park...you're looking at 10 hour round trips or more there which is already the accepted norm for 1/4 finals..so if there was a chance of a home quarter final every second or third year with the odd long trip to say Mayo, Limerick or even Clones..the distance travelled would even out or maybe even be less than what it would be anyway.

Fr Tod Umptious

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Quarter finals at provincial venues is something that definitely should be looked at.
As said above, Kerry v Galway in Killarney (or Salthill) would have a great buzz and the capacity wouldn't be an issue. It also could reward the Provincial winners with a home quarter final. There is arguably no advantage from winning your province these days as the layoff can in some cases actually be detrimental rather than beneficial.

Mayo v Cork in Castlebar. (40k+)
Monaghan v Kildare/Dublin in Clones/Croker
Donegal v Meath/Armagh in Breffni Park/Clones (Both 32k+ capacity)

There are plenty venues capable of holding such games, the problem is the GAA have 10 year ticket holders and corporate sponsors who want all these games at Croker, however it would be great if you could have 2 1/4 finals at Croker and maybe 2 outside it each year...the overall attendance would actually increase I'd be fairly sure.

There are many many advantages to winning your provincial.
Any serious contender will want to win the provincial, it makes planning easier and means you avoid another provincial champ in the QF.

On the subject of QF outside of CP.

They are on CP cos its reward for winning the provincial, just like it was by playing the SF there are 2001

ciarriaithuaidh

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

There are many many advantages to winning your provincial.
Any serious contender will want to win the provincial, it makes planning easier and means you avoid another provincial champ in the QF.

On the subject of QF outside of CP.

They are on CP cos its reward for winning the provincial, just like it was by playing the SF there are 2001

How is that a reward? Teams coming through back door get the same thing..AND they will have had an extra game to tune up (possibly in Croker also)..so like I said, there is not much advantage and arguably a DISadvantage to scraping a win in provincial final and having a 5 week layoff, rather than going through the backdoor and having the extra game.

Look at the amount of provincial champions who have been caught cold in quarters over last few years AND the number of qualifiers who have made it to semis, finals and even won the whole thing.

Pete_Cavan

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Win your province then.

I understand the point of giving an advantage to provincial winners but dont you think that could be a bit punitive on the other team?

Like I said, we should be trying to accommodate players (the guys who put in all the training and effort) and fans (the people who pay over the money) as much as possible. This is extra important when it comes to showpiece matches such as QFs. Dragging one team the length of the country to play in front of almost exclusive opposition fans is not good for the Championship.

"Win your province then" seems a very arrogant answer and not the kind of attitude that should be taken if we want to grow and develop the sport.

Nidgeweasel

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I understand the point of giving an advantage to provincial winners but dont you think that could be a bit punitive on the other team?

Like I said, we should be trying to accommodate players (the guys who put in all the training and effort) and fans (the people who pay over the money) as much as possible. This is extra important when it comes to showpiece matches such as QFs. Dragging one team the length of the country to play in front of almost exclusive opposition fans is not good for the Championship.

"Win your province then" seems a very arrogant answer and not the kind of attitude that should be taken if we want to grow and develop the sport.

Carlow had to travel to Ballybofey a few years ago for a qualifier. Was that fair?

Fr Tod Umptious

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

How is that a reward? Teams coming through back door get the same thing..AND they will have had an extra game to tune up (possibly in Croker also)..so like I said, there is not much advantage and arguably a DISadvantage to scraping a win in provincial final and having a 5 week layoff, rather than going through the backdoor and having the extra game.

Look at the amount of provincial champions who have been caught cold in quarters over last few years AND the number of qualifiers who have made it to semis, finals and even won the whole thing.

Losing a provincial at any stage only guarantees you one more game, not a trip to CP.
Winning it does though.

And since 2010 when all provincial winners lost their QF only one has, and that was Monaghan.
The days to the route through the back door to hone your game are gone.

By the way that set on 2010 provincial winners included the likes of Meath and Roscommon

The Lost Sheep

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I understand the point of giving an advantage to provincial winners but dont you think that could be a bit punitive on the other team?

Like I said, we should be trying to accommodate players (the guys who put in all the training and effort) and fans (the people who pay over the money) as much as possible. This is extra important when it comes to showpiece matches such as QFs. Dragging one team the length of the country to play in front of almost exclusive opposition fans is not good for the Championship.

"Win your province then" seems a very arrogant answer and not the kind of attitude that should be taken if we want to grow and develop the sport.

The showpiece games should be in the showpiece ground

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I think it would be a bit much to make the Cork team to travel up to Mayo for that match, you are talking about a 7 hour round trip, then you need time for warm up, match and food after, thats not fair to force that on amateur players who have made it to the QFs. Also, you wont have many Cork fans travelling which is not good either.

Really, these games should be fixed with a bit of common sense in mind - you need to look at logistics for both teams, maximising the attendance, etc. Not considering these will affect the game, the atmosphere and the product we want to promote. That is why I dont think hard and fast rules like automatically giving one team home advantage is a good idea. It would be very unfair to make Armagh travel to Kerry, or Cork to Donegal. It should be decided based on both counties involved, after all, it is their players who will be on the pitch and their supporters in the stands.

I still think Kerry v Galway and Mayo v Cork as a double header in the Gaelic Grounds is the best solution for all involved. It would cut at least an hour off the journey for those involved and hopefully entice a few more through the turnstile.

How is it unfair? The preparation time would be the same for a league game and there isn't complaining about time etc taken to get to the game during the league. Yes the players are amateur and it would be a considerable time to travel but it isn't that much time and the players are well looked after.
Giving a team, like provincial champions, home advantage promotes success and rewards earlier successes. I wouldn't see it as unfair Armagh travelling to Kerry or Cork to Donegal.
Croke Park as a day out etc entices people in to games. The top games should be in the showpiece ground.

Nidgeweasel

And anyway Pete, It'll be a while before yourselves have to worry about it!