can I just...

Snake

There's a thread about things parents do that piss you off. And reading some things I agree other things just make me angry. Things id agree with like feeding young children fast food everyday, but disagree that they should never have it. It was also mentioned that parents use children as an excuse for special treatment like the mom and baby parking spaces. Those who say it obviously oblivious to the fact they're made larger to let parents safely move child from car to buggy without being in a restricted space or doing it in the middle of a carpark. So I'd like to just say,

Parenting isn't easy, at the best of times. Parents can tell when their child is being bold we don't need you to point it out, it's embarrassing but it's not our fault.

We don't feed him McDonald's everyday we had a family day out and this is just a treat. Don't watch me buy it and assume I feed it to him everyday.

I'm not the perfect parent but you know what, I doubt you are either.

I can see that my child isn't being well behaved and I haven't corrected him because I don't want to make a scene in the middle of the crowded shop.

You're child might not act out every now and again but you know what children misbehave and I'm not a bad parent.

Babies cry too, in case youre just ignorant and frankly, stupid they cant say daddy I'm hungry or daddy I need to be winded, please have some patience while I try to decipher what he is looking for.

Yes I may ask to cut in line to the bathroom with my child not because I'm rude but because he's a child and can't hold onto like an adult can.

Parent or not you don't automatically know everything no parent does so please keep your ignorant opinions about children to yourself.

Chattastrophe!

GrayFox208 wrote: »

Yes I may ask to cut in line to the bathroom with my child not because I'm rude but because he's a child and can't hold onto like an adult can.

I haven't read the thread you're referring to ... but I really hope that what you mean is that you politely explain the situation to those in the queue ahead of you and ask their permission and apologise, rather than cutting in in front of them ...?

Snake

Chattastrophe! wrote: »

I haven't read the thread you're referring to ... but I really hope that what you mean is that you politely explain the situation to those in the queue ahead of you and ask their permission and apologise, rather than cutting in in front of them ...?

Yeah, ask obviously! I said that didn't I? If not I'll edit it.

Chattastrophe!

GrayFox208 wrote: »

Yeah, ask obviously! I said that didn't I? If not I'll edit it.

It's just the way you said it sounded a little bit entitled.

You don't know who in the queue in front of you might have medical issues that they mightn't necessarily want to start discussing in front of a queue of people, but that might make their need for the loo just as pressing as your kid's.

As for the McDonalds etc, to be honest I don't really think that it's OK to give to young kids, even as a treat.

And I'd rather allow a scene in the middle of a crowded shop than allow a child to behave badly with no response.

I guess we all have different parenting styles.

eviltwin

Do people really notice or comment on other peoples kids? I've never noticed it personally and my kids can be demons at times. I don't judge others either, why concern yourself about what other people do or tut tut about it?

nikpmup

Isn't that thread on AH?


BIG pinch of salt, and a deep breath OP.

Yeah, some people/keyboard warriors don't like kids and moan about them on a forum... what of it? Raise your kids to the best of your ability, and, well, that's it really. Ignore moaners on AH - they're not going to change their minds and they're not going to convert every parent in the world to their way of thinking so let it go.

Dolbert

The majority of posters on that thread are early 20-somethings with no experience of kids, yet have all the answers. I wouldn't worry about it

CrazyRabbit

To be fair, there are some parents who you just know are scum and are raising scum. Their complete absence of parenting skills is obvious.

I do try not to judge, and I'm very tolerant and understanding of the behaviour of children. But some are just terrible.

Parents with good parenting skills are likewise very obvious. And most of the time you can tell the difference between kids in a bad mood/throwing a tantrum and kids that are just rotten to the core with little hope for them.

Sligo1

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

To be fair, there are some parents who you just know are scum and are raising scum. Their complete absence of parenting skills is obvious.

I do try not to judge, and I'm very tolerant and understanding of the behaviour of children. But some are just terrible.

Parents with good parenting skills are likewise very obvious. And most of the time you can tell the difference between kids in a bad mood/throwing a tantrum and kids that are just rotten to the core with little hope for them.

While I agree with you regarding the parenting/parents ... It's horrible to refer to little children as scum and rotten to the core. Gosh... Those comments are actually really upsetting tbh.

eviltwin

A lot of people on boards just seem to hate kids full stop. I wouldn't worry what some random person on AH says or take it personally. Most people, even those without children, appreciate that its not easy, that there are bad days. They aren't judging. People look when they see a child having a tantrum because it naturally attracts attention but that doesn't mean they are being critical of your parenting and even if they are so what?

ash23

I've a kid but I think some parents are very entitled. Not all but some.

Those who think that their child entitles them to skip queues, cancel nights out at the last minute, not contribute to a collection or help out with a group event etc.

Obviously it can happen to anyone once or twice that they genuinely can't help or contribute or attend, but I'd say we all know a parent who acts like nobody else has ever had a child. I recall someone in work telling me I have it so easy because my child gets up on her own in the morning and basically I don't know how hard it is to never get a lie in. I did point out that my child was once under 6/7 and I had to get up with her every single morning also

Parent and baby spaces show the biggest sense of entitlement imo. I parked in one in a supermarket when I had my mum with me. She had just had a knee replacement. As she didn't have a blue badge we didn't park in the disabled bay as I didn't want to get clamped. So a P&C space was open and I took it.

As we came back to the car, my mother visibly limping and using crutches, walking at the pace of a snail, a stupid cow pulled up and said "where's your child?". I explained my mum can't walk far and we didn't park in the disabled bay as it's temporary. She went nuts at me. I just told her to f*ck off and I wouldn't usually be one to confront someone. But seriously if you see someone being helped into a car then let them park wherever they want.
I think any parent who thinks P&C spaces are anything but a handy convenience and consider them a right similar to a disabled bay needs to examine their priorities and be grateful that they can park away from other cars and walk to the supermarket. There's no need for P&C spaces to be so close to the door. I appreciate the wider space is handy but if you park at the far end of the carpark you'll most likely have plenty of space to open doors wide.

Similarly parents who think buggies are JCBs and push them with no regard for other pedestrians or the backs of their legs.

Some people are very precious about the fact that they are parents. That is annoying.

sok2005

People who park in Parent and Child spots without small children are in the wrong and it's annoying for parents to witness that.
There's disabled parking spots for people who need them, otherwise you don't get to use the facilities made for parents with children. You come up with an alternative.

ash23

sok2005 wrote: »

People who park in Parent and Child spots without small children are in the wrong and it's annoying for parents to witness that.
There's disabled parking spots for people who need them, otherwise you don't get to use the facilities made for parents with children. You come up with an alternative.

So buggy trumps disability? Really?

My mother isn't permanantly disabled. She'd had surgery and was unable to walk much. I was not about to park in a disabled space with no blue badge. I would think that using a disabled spot with no blue badge is far worse than using a P&C spot.

I can't believe you would begrudge a person with a clearly injured person the use of a p&c spot. Laughable really and an example of he sense of entitlement I'm talking about.

I actually have a disability but have not applied for a blue badge as I am still able bodied and wouldn't dream of using a disabled spot unnecessarily.

I don't think the spots nearest the door should be P&C as it's quite possible that people may need to park near the door but not have a blue badge. If all the spaces near the door are either disabled spaces or P&C, then there will be cases where people on crutches or with an illness that isn't long term, may end up having to choose to park in one or the other.
In those cases, obvious choice would be for them to use the P&C spaces over a disabled bay.

People are far too precious over having to walk a few yards with a small child imo. Given that there were about 10 P&C spaces, half of which were empty but the person giving me abuse clearly didn't want to walk the extra few yards :rolleyes:

sok2005

I never stated that a child trumps a disability. I actually wrote that there are spaces for people with disabilities.

If my mother had an operation on her knee she would be at home resting not being dragged around supermarkets therefore eliminating the need to park in a space that is not meant for me.

I would make alternative arrangements instead of shouting obscenities at some person who simply pointed out that the spaces are for people with children.

ash23

sok2005 wrote: »

I never stated that a child trumps a disability. I actually wrote that there are spaces for people with disabilities.

If my mother had an operation on her knee she would be at home resting not being dragged around supermarkets therefore eliminating the need to park in a space that is not meant for me.

I would make alternative arrangements instead of shouting obscenities at some person who simply pointed out that the spaces are for people with children.

Could you read my post please? I explained to that "lady" why I was parked where I was. Very nicely. She then became very abusive to me, using a number of choice swear words as I helped my mother into the car. So yes, I then told her to f*ck off.

As for your little comment about my mother being "dragged" around. We were in the doctors getting her staples out which is located in the centre, aswell as the chemist for her pain relief. I also got her hair and nails done (also in the same centre) as she was feeling very down after the surgery.

Unfortunately I couldn't go and get the staples removed on her behalf so "alternative arrangements" could not be made. :rolleyes:

I had no right to use a disabled parking spot as I don't have a blue badge but I was not going to force a woman who was only 3 weeks after a knee replacement to walk across a car park so that some jumped up cow doesn't have to walk an extra few hundred yards with her push chair.

sok2005

All i'm saying is if you need to use the facilities of a supermarket for whatever reasons, be it hair, nails or groceries you park in a disabled spot if you are disabled, a parent and child spot if you are a parent and a regular car parking space if you are neither.

You can't just bend the rules as you see fit.

ash23

sok2005 wrote: »

All i'm saying is if you need to use the facilities of a supermarket for whatever reasons, be it hair, nails or groceries you park in a disabled spot if you are disabled, a parent and child spot if you are a parent and a regular car parking space if you are neither.

You can't just bend the rules as you see fit.

Do you know what a disability is? It's classed as needing to last more than a year. A temporary mobility issue doesn't qualify a person for a blue badge. A person cannot park in a disabled spot without a blue badge. That is the law.
There are no laws surrounding P&C spaces. It is a facility provided but it is not a legal requirement for a place to have them.

So I had 3 choices
1. Park in a disabled spot and break the law
2. Make my mother walk from a distant parking spot when she was in a lot of pain
3. Park in a P&C space where we're near the door and I'm not breaking any laws.


Which would you have chosen?

Anyone with half a brain would realise, especially once it was explained that it was a necessary move. But people who get tied up into knots over the very IDEA that a P&C parking space is a nice boost but far from a necessity is exactly the entitled parent that bugs me.

A healthy parent with a healthy child is well able to walk an extra few yards to the shop.

Tombo2001

GrayFox208 wrote: »

There's a thread about things parents do that piss you off. And reading some things I agree other things just make me angry. Things id agree with like feeding young children fast food everyday, but disagree that they should never have it. It was also mentioned that parents use children as an excuse for special treatment like the mom and baby parking spaces. Those who say it obviously oblivious to the fact they're made larger to let parents safely move child from car to buggy without being in a restricted space or doing it in the middle of a carpark. So I'd like to just say,



Parent or not you don't automatically know everything no parent does so please keep your ignorant opinions about children to yourself.

All your doing here is taking an argument from a forum where people are not parents and you dont like what they are saying to a forum where people are parents and are sympathetic to your views......

I suppose its one way to win the argument.

Bear in mind that After Hours is populated principally by narrow minded twenty somethings who really havent grown up yet despite the fact that they've been through university, a gap year in Australia and are now clipping away on keyboards in the IFSC.

They are self-centred people. They will soon learn not to be..... When they have kids. In the meantime, just understand that they are just big children.

tinkerbell

GrayFox208 wrote: »

There's a thread about things parents do that piss you off. And reading some things I agree other things just make me angry. Things id agree with like feeding young children fast food everyday, but disagree that they should never have it. It was also mentioned that parents use children as an excuse for special treatment like the mom and baby parking spaces. Those who say it obviously oblivious to the fact they're made larger to let parents safely move child from car to buggy without being in a restricted space or doing it in the middle of a carpark. So I'd like to just say,

Parenting isn't easy, at the best of times. Parents can tell when their child is being bold we don't need you to point it out, it's embarrassing but it's not our fault.

We don't feed him McDonald's everyday we had a family day out and this is just a treat. Don't watch me buy it and assume I feed it to him everyday.

I'm not the perfect parent but you know what, I doubt you are either.

I can see that my child isn't being well behaved and I haven't corrected him because I don't want to make a scene in the middle of the crowded shop.

You're child might not act out every now and again but you know what children misbehave and I'm not a bad parent.

Babies cry too, in case youre just ignorant and frankly, stupid they cant say daddy I'm hungry or daddy I need to be winded, please have some patience while I try to decipher what he is looking for.

Yes I may ask to cut in line to the bathroom with my child not because I'm rude but because he's a child and can't hold onto like an adult can.

Parent or not you don't automatically know everything no parent does so please keep your ignorant opinions about children to yourself.

Actually, it IS rude and self entitled to think you can jump the queue in the bathroom for the sole reason that you have a child with you. You have no idea of anybody else in the queue may be going through that they need the bathroom far more urgently. Just because you have a child with you, doesn't make you a higher priority than everybody else who is queuing to use the bathroom.

You could have somebody up ahead who has been dying to use the toilet for ages and only just reached the bathroom and can't hold on much longer. There could be someone in the queue who has a long term illness in the form of bowel disease who just does not have the luxury of waiting another 5/10 minutes just so you can skip the queue just because you have a child with you. There could be someone who is experiencing food poisoning and needs to get to the bathroom urgently and just cannot wait otherwise they might soil themselves. People in those scenarios aren't going to just volunteer this information when you ask to queue jump and say "no sorry, you can't skip ahead as I have this bowel problem", they'll most likely say go ahead because they are too polite, all the while suffering in silence worrying that by the time they get to use to the toilet, it'll be too late. So yes, it is very selfish to just expect people to get out of your way just because you have a child.

And I agree with Chattastrophe in that I think it is very bad form not to correct a child in public just because you're in a crowded shop. It's not called "creating a scene", it's explaining to your child that they cannot do whatever it is they are doing, you don't have to create a big scene. How do you ever expect your child to learn what is right and wrong? I've seen children in shops who are unruly. Some parents correct them, others don't. I don't judge the parents who correct them - they are doing the right thing. They talk to the child and the child calms down. Other parents just let them run riot and you see the same kids week in week out still running amuck.

And regarding your last statement - well, you were responding to a thread in After Hours and have created another thread here. If you don't want opinions, then I'm not sure what the purpose was to create another thread about it.

ash23 wrote: »

Could you read my post please? I explained to that "lady" why I was parked where I was. Very nicely. She then became very abusive to me, using a number of choice swear words as I helped my mother into the car. So yes, I then told her to f*ck off.

As for your little comment about my mother being "dragged" around. We were in the doctors getting her staples out which is located in the centre, aswell as the chemist for her pain relief. I also got her hair and nails done (also in the same centre) as she was feeling very down after the surgery.

Unfortunately I couldn't go and get the staples removed on her behalf so "alternative arrangements" could not be made. :rolleyes:

I had no right to use a disabled parking spot as I don't have a blue badge but I was not going to force a woman who was only 3 weeks after a knee replacement to walk across a car park so that some jumped up cow doesn't have to walk an extra few hundred yards with her push chair.

In this case, you were completely in the right to use the P&C spot.

Macavity.

Tombo2001 wrote: »

They are self-centred people. They will soon learn not to be..... When they have kids. In the meantime, just understand that they are just big children.

Everyone who do not have children are self centered whereas everyone who do are not. Also, you are a child unless you have children. Righteo.

Tombo2001

Macavity. wrote: »

Everyone who do not have children are self centered whereas everyone who do are not. Also, you are a child unless you have children. Righteo.

Not what I said.

But if you want to put words in my mouth to suit yourself, work away.

Another good way to win an argument.

sok2005

ash23 wrote: »

So I had 3 choices
1. Park in a disabled spot and break the law
2. Make my mother walk from a distant parking spot when she was in a lot of pain
3. Park in a P&C space where we're near the door and I'm not breaking any laws.


Which would you have chosen?

Well as you asked my opinion, if my mother was well enough to travel about getting hair and nails done, I would assume she's fine to walk a few more steps to the front door of the supermarket. So I choose number
4. Park in a public space.

ash23

sok2005 wrote: »

Well as you asked my opinion, if my mother was well enough to travel about getting hair and nails done, I would assume she's fine to walk a few more steps to the front door of the supermarket. So I choose number
4. Park in a public space.

Woman three weeks after major surgery needing staples removed and two crutches vs healthy woman with buggy and you think the woman with the buggy deserves the space more?

You are exactly the type of entitled parent that people complain about on the thread the op mentioned.
I'm a bit incredulous actually. I despair of the next generation if they're being brought up to think that they are so important they can't walk a few yards extra so that someone more in need doesn't have to. It's akin to someone refusing to give up their seat on public transport or refusing to fold up a buggy when a wheelchair user needs the space.

Sad really that people would think that way.

sok2005

ash23 wrote: »

Woman three weeks after major surgery needing staples removed and two crutches vs healthy woman with buggy and you think the woman with the buggy deserves the space more?

You are exactly the type of entitled parent that people complain about on the thread the op mentioned.
I'm a bit incredulous actually.

How do you know you took the space of a healthy woman with a buggy? You have no idea the situation of the people you took the space from. Some may, heaven forbid, even have it worse off than you on that day.

You have no idea what kind of parent I am. All you know of me is that it annoys me when people without small children take parent and child car parking spaces. That alone makes you think you are fit to judge me as a parent. Says more about you than I.

tinkerbell

sok2005 wrote: »

How do you know you took the space of a healthy woman with a buggy? You have no idea the situation of the people you took the space from. Some may, heaven forbid, even have it worse off than you on that day.

You have no idea what kind of parent I am. All you know of me is that it annoys me when people without small children take parent and child car parking spaces. That alone makes you think you are fit to judge me as a parent. Says more about you than I.

By that reasoning, nobody should park in a P&C space as you never know the circumstances of the person who could come along after you and need the space more.

The fact of the matter is that P&C spaces aren't regulated - there is no law regarding their use (as far as I am aware). There is however a law for disabled spaces where you need a permit in order to park in one. P&C spaces are more a courtesy than anything else and if a temporarily disabled person parks in one, I would see no problem with that as they clearly have a need to do so. Same reasoning in that I wouldn't see a problem with a heavily pregnant woman parking in a P&C space because she may have difficulty walking from the far end of the car park.

The sort that bug me parking in a P&C space are those that are clearly able bodied and have no children with them.

sok2005

tinkerbell wrote: »

By that reasoning, nobody should park in a P&C space as you never know the circumstances of the person who could come along after you and need the space more.

Parents with small kids should park in the spaces. That is what they are there for.

hoodwinked

ash23 wrote: »

A healthy parent with a healthy child is well able to walk an extra few yards to the shop.

but a parent with a newborn may not, never mind if they have had issues since the birth, or it's their first baby and they are nervous carrying them, but have to remove them from the baby seat so they can put them in a trolley, i know when my daughter was a newborn i could not manage a buggy and a trolley by myself and always tried to be near the door to limit her exposure to the cold air.

ash23 wrote: »

Woman three weeks after major surgery needing staples removed and two crutches vs healthy woman with buggy and you think the woman with the buggy deserves the space more?

with all due respect my grandmother had both her knees done, and three weeks later with crutches was able to walk around, thats what the crutches are for, i'd at a guess say she did more walking around inside having to get her hair and nails done than she would have getting from a normal space to the door.

tinkerbell wrote: »

By that reasoning, nobody should park in a P&C space as you never know the circumstances of the person who could come along after you and need the space more.

The fact of the matter is that P&C spaces aren't regulated - there is no law regarding their use (as far as I am aware). There is however a law for disabled spaces where you need a permit in order to park in one. P&C spaces are more a courtesy than anything else and if a temporarily disabled person parks in one, I would see no problem with that as they clearly have a need to do so. Same reasoning in that I wouldn't see a problem with a heavily pregnant woman parking in a P&C space because she may have difficulty walking from the far end of the car park.

The sort that bug me parking in a P&C space are those that are clearly able bodied and have no children with them.

there shouldn't NEED to be a law, a bit of consideration is all that is needed, nobody should park in them unless they have a child with them, that would need to have the extra space.

if you have a passenger with a disability they should contact the customer service of the shop to a: give them their registration number and tell them they've used a disabled spot as their mother had a temporary disability, or b: found a normal spot as near to the door as possible, or c: drop off her mother at the door, go park and meet her there.

there is generally no need to park there unless you have a child,

sok2005 wrote: »

Parents with small kids should park in the spaces. That is what they are there for.

this x100, since my daughter was old enough to walk and didn't require the car seat to come out of the car, or us to lift her out of the car i have started to use the regular spaces. i know how hard it was for us to get the wide ones when we needed them and i don't want others to feel the same as i did, so i show consideration and park elsewhere.

ash23

sok2005 wrote: »

How do you know you took the space of a healthy woman with a buggy? You have no idea the situation of the people you took the space from. Some may, heaven forbid, even have it worse off than you on that day.

You have no idea what kind of parent I am. All you know of me is that it annoys me when people without small children take parent and child car parking spaces. That alone makes you think you are fit to judge me as a parent. Says more about you than I.

She had every chance to explain to me the reason she needed the space and didn't other than to say repeatedly that I didn't have any f*cking kids with me. There were other p&c spaces available.

You've stated that a healthy person with a child should take precedence over a person who actually needs additional assistance simply because they are a parent. I would much prefer to bring my child up to use common sense and empathy than to adhere blindly to a sign.

vitani

tinkerbell wrote: »

Actually, it IS rude and self entitled to think you can jump the queue in the bathroom for the sole reason that you have a child with you. You have no idea of anybody else in the queue may be going through that they need the bathroom far more urgently. Just because you have a child with you, doesn't make you a higher priority than everybody else who is queuing to use the bathroom.

In relation to cutting in front of anyone else, you're right, there are people who could need the bathroom more. But if I approach a public toilet and there's a queue of, say, ten women ahead of me and I know that my 3.5 year will wet herself if she has to wait, then yes, I would ask if I could skip ahead of someone. I'd do it politely and I'd address it to the couple of people at the front rather than put one person on the spot, but I'm not about to let my child have an accident to avoid appearing rude.

Having said that, I've never asked to cut in front of someone else, but I have gone into coffee shops before and asked if we could use their toilet because again, the alternative would be her wetting herself. It's not something I'd do for myself but for the moment, any shyness I have about appearing to be rude comes second to my child's needs. If that makes me self-entitled, so be it.

ash23

hoodwinked wrote: »

but a parent with a newborn may not, never mind if they have had issues since the birth, or it's their first baby and they are nervous carrying them, but have to remove them from the baby seat so they can put them in a trolley, i know when my daughter was a newborn i could not manage a buggy and a trolley by myself and always tried to be near the door to limit her exposure to the cold air.

It was summer. She had a toddler. I still can't see why a person nervous with a new baby trumps me being nervous about my mother falling.

with all due respect my grandmother had both her knees done, and three weeks later with crutches was able to walk around, thats what the crutches are for, i'd at a guess say she did more walking around inside having to get her hair and nails done than she would have getting from a normal space to the door.

My mother was in a lot of pain. Great that your granny wasn't but not everyone is the same. Hairdresser is next to the doctor. We had to pass it on the way out to the car.

there shouldn't NEED to be a law, a bit of consideration is all that is needed, nobody should park in them unless they have a child with them, that would need to have the extra space.

Consideration works both ways surely? Or is it just people with kids who deserve consideration?

you have a passenger with a disability they should contact the customer service of the shop to a: give them their registration number and tell them they've used a disabled spot as their mother had a temporary disability,

yeah wander around to find the clamper or trust that the customer service person will find the clamper
Not to mention using a disabled spot so that a person with a blue badge can't.

b: found a normal spot as near to the door as possible, or c: drop off her mother at the door, go park and meet her there.

Leave my mother standing waiting on her banjaxed knee while I drive around all so a mammy can park closer to the door?

So we should treat our healthy kids like princess and princes and our own parents and elderly like crap?


A bit of common sense really doesn't go amiss in certain situations

eviltwin

Ash I don't think you are being unreasonable and if someone with a disability or a condition that left them incapacitated needed a space near the door I wouldn't begrudge them a parent and child spot. Some people are just unable to see beyond their own needs I suppose.