can I just...

hoodwinked

ash23 wrote: »

Leave my mother standing waiting on her banjaxed knee while I drive around all so a mammy can park closer to the door?

So we should treat our healthy kids like princess and princes and our own parents and elderly like crap?


A bit of common sense really doesn't go amiss in certain situations

you are assuming parents who use those spaces have healthy children? or no issues themselves? like i said you don't know who you stopped from parking there, you don't know what their circumstances are,

you do know you parked in a space not designated to people in your situation, if you have such issues with it get onto the center and have them install elderly/temporary disability/emergency spaces,

as it stands though, you had other options you chose the easiest for you at the expense of the people the center decided that space was for,

its not any different from somebody with no children parking there,

sok2005

ash23 wrote: »

She had every chance to explain to me the reason she needed the space and didn't other than to say repeatedly that I didn't have any f*cking kids with me. There were other p&c spaces available.

You've stated that a healthy person with a child should take precedence over a person who actually needs additional assistance simply because they are a parent. I would much prefer to bring my child up to use common sense and empathy than to adhere blindly to a sign.

You didn't just take the space from that woman in particular you took if from all the other people who frequented the car park during the period you spent there getting hair and nails done.

I stated that there are spaces for people with disabilities, there are spaces for people with small children and then there are spaces for the rest of the public. Never once did I insinuate that we should glorify healthy families over someone in need of care.

Xdancer

When my daughter was a baby I didn't find an etxra wide spot necessary to get my baby and buggy out of the car. Most places around where I live don't have them and people around here manage fine without them
These spots are a courtesy not a neccessity and people being outraged because someone without a child dared use them IMO are ridiculous.

Tasden

Wow, people seriously get worked up about mother and baby spaces...

They're there to make parent's lives a little bit easier, they're not a god given right and people shouldn't get their knickers in a twist over them.

ash23

I'll point out yet again that there were plenty of other p&c spaces available.

If someone has a disabled child they would have a blue badge and wouldn't need a p&c spot. If they were in a similar position to me, lets say with a child on crutches, why should their need trump that of an older person struggling on crutches?

I remember being on crutches as a child and my mother making me move onto her lap to let an old woman sit on the bus.

Yes I took a p&c space and I make no apologies for it. At the time I needed a place close to the door. Frankly I think that p&c spaces should not be beside the door as the spaces beside the door are needed just as much by the general public for various reasons.

It truly saddens me that people would begrudge a woman in her 60s after major surgery a bit of comfort so that a person with a healthy child doesn't have to walk an extra few yards.

Care for the elderly indeed. If my own daughter ever expressed such an opinion I'd feel I'd gone wrong somewhere to be honest.

I think disability trumps everything but I think elderly trump healthy children and there is probably more of a need for oap spaces than p&c but the parents are the big spenders so the shops pander to them. And some parents have bought into the notion that they now need and deserve this pandering.

As someone who will probably end up in a wheelchair I will be thankful for every occasion I am able to walk across the car park rather than moaning about my poor child having to walk a few extra steps or getting a bit wet.

Tasden

Ash tbh I wouldn't even try to justify your decision on this thread, you were right to do what you did imo and anyone who doesn't understand why you did it or feels more entitled to that space.... just leave them to it

hoodwinked

ash23 wrote: »

I'll point out yet again that there were plenty of other p&c spaces available.

If someone has a disabled child they would have a blue badge and wouldn't need a p&c spot. If they were in a similar position to me, lets say with a child on crutches, why should their need trump that of an older person struggling on crutches?

I remember being on crutches as a child and my mother making me move onto her lap to let an old woman sit on the bus.

Yes I took a p&c space and I make no apologies for it. At the time I needed a place close to the door. Frankly I think that p&c spaces should not be beside the door as the spaces beside the door are needed just as much by the general public for various reasons.

It truly saddens me that people would begrudge a woman in her 60s after major surgery a bit of comfort so that a person with a healthy child doesn't have to walk an extra few yards.

Care for the elderly indeed. If my own daughter ever expressed such an opinion I'd feel I'd gone wrong somewhere to be honest.

I think disability trumps everything but I think elderly trump healthy children and there is probably more of a need for oap spaces than p&c but the parents are the big spenders so the shops pander to them. And some parents have bought into the notion that they now need and deserve this pandering.

As someone who will probably end up in a wheelchair I will be thankful for every occasion I am able to walk across the car park rather than moaning about my poor child having to walk a few extra steps or getting a bit wet.

the fact you are trying to make this a disability vs healthy child debate to excuse your parking there just shows even you seem to agree thats not what the space was for,

my point was you don't know who you took that space from, it could have been a mother needing to visit the doctor due to recently having a c section, it could have been a mother with a very sick child (not always with a blue badge) trying to get some food for the week, you don't know,

all you know is you took a space not designated for you, because you assessed your mother needed it most, you say your self a child on crutches shouldn't trump an older person, when in this particular case they do, as that space is for children not the elderly, take it up with the center if you feel they are discriminating against the elderly,

if she is in that much discomfort walking why in god's name would you let her walk around a center? why not get a wheel chair or mobility scooter?

i am all for giving up a seat on the bus for the elderly, i am all for having elderly spaces near the door and wider, in fact i am working with our local center to have them installed because some elderly people need them, but in this case you were in the wrong to park there.

it's not about the "rights" or entitlements of parents and children it's about the fact you shouldn't use those spaces if you don't have a child. just like you wouldn't use a disability space without the genuine need to.

Bagheera

OP I had a quick look through that AH thread and pretty much every type of parent is slagged off by someone. It's up to each of us to make our own parenting choices and feel comfortable enough with them not to care what anyone else thinks. Obviously situations of suspected abuse are different.

Regarding the P&C spaces. I've seen people with mobility issues parking in them and that doesn't bother me, but I do get irked by people taking them out of laziness. I spotted the manager of our local super valu parking in one of the two P&C spaces the other day, presumably starting her shift. So that space was going to be blocked for several hours because she couldn't walk a few metres. I know they're designed to help with buggies etc, but the thing I find best about them is it means not having to cross a car park with a toddler and baby when some people drive way too fast in such a busy area.

hoodwinked

Bagheera wrote: »

OP I had a quick look through that AH thread and pretty much every type of parent is slagged off by someone. It's up to each of us to make our own parenting choices and feel comfortable enough with them not to care what anyone else thinks. Obviously situations of suspected abuse are different.

Regarding the P&C spaces. I've seen people with mobility issues parking in them and that doesn't bother me, but I do get irked by people taking them out of laziness. I spotted the manager of our local super valu parking in one of the two P&C spaces the other day, presumably starting her shift. So that space was going to be blocked for several hours because she couldn't walk a few metres. I know they're designed to help with buggies etc, but the thing I find best about them is it means not having to cross a car park with a toddler and baby when some people drive way too fast in such a busy area.

but how do you define lazy? what if the person parking there has a bad leg? or asthma and would need an inhaler to walk further?, what if someone just that morning banged their foot and can't walk properly? what if they just had minor surgery and you can't see it but they are in pain?

how do we define who it is ok to park there for and their need vs who is lazy?

ash23

hoodwinked wrote: »

the fact you are trying to make this a disability vs healthy child debate to excuse your parking there just shows even you seem to agree thats not what the space was for,

my point was you don't know who you took that space from, it could have been a mother needing to visit the doctor due to recently having a c section, it could have been a mother with a very sick child (not always with a blue badge) trying to get some food for the week, you don't know,

all you know is you took a space not designated for you, because you assessed your mother needed it most, you say your self a child on crutches shouldn't trump an older person, when in this particular case they do, as that space is for children not the elderly, take it up with the center if you feel they are discriminating against the elderly,

if she is in that much discomfort walking why in god's name would you let her walk around a center? why not get a wheel chair or mobility scooter?

i am all for giving up a seat on the bus for the elderly, i am all for having elderly spaces near the door and wider, in fact i am working with our local center to have them installed because some elderly people need them, but in this case you were in the wrong to park there.

it's not about the "rights" of parents and children it's about the fact you shouldn't use those spaces if you don't have a child. just like you wouldn't use a disability space without the genuine need to.

No I don't think I was wrong and if there was a woman who had a section etc again I don't feel ahe deserves the space more. She just wouldn't have been given abuse for using it whereas we were.

it kind of is a disabled vs children thing as some are saying my mother should have walked rather than use the space. So essentially they would rather see a person with a disability (albeit temporary) walk in pain than see her use an available spot that most likely would have been taken by a healthy parent and child.

We live in a large town not a city. There are no scooters and chairs for hire. It's a fairly small centre, total of about 8 units.

Not like she was walking miles for gods sake.

hoodwinked

ash23 wrote: »

No I don't think I was wrong and if there was a woman who had a section etc again I don't feel ahe deserves the space more. She just wouldn't have been given abuse for using it whereas we were.

it kind of is a disabled vs children thing as some are saying my mother should have walked rather than use the space. So essentially they would rather see a person with a disability (albeit temporary) walk in pain than see her use an available spot that most likely would have been taken by a healthy parent and child.

We live in a large town not a city. There are no scooters and chairs for hire. It's a fairly small centre, total of about 8 units.

Not like she was walking miles for gods sake.

but can you not see the same would apply to the car park then?

you are saying its ok for her to walk around inside but to get from a normal space to the door is too much or puts her in pain?

if she has a temporary disability you should have used a disability space and got a pass or a note from customer service, i know that is the norm in most small centers here,

for the record the centers i am talking about are also in a town not the city.

ash23

hoodwinked wrote: »

but can you not see the same would apply to the car park then?

you are saying its ok for her to walk around inside but to get from a normal space to the door is too much or puts her in pain?

if she has a temporary disability you should have used a disability space and got a pass or a note from customer service, i know that is the norm in most small centers here,

for the record the centers i am talking about are also in a town not the city.

Sigh.

Its a centre. Large supermarket makes up the bulk of it so fairly huge car park. Busy Friday so drove around. No normal spaces near the door. Saw a car pulling out of a space and made the reasonable decision to park there. Helped my mother out of the car. Into the centre, passed the hairdresser and chemist and into the doctor. Out of the doctor and into the hairdresser. They did her nails at the hair station as they were not completely heartless and didn't make her walk into the back where she usually would get it done.

She took all of an additional twenty steps I'd say to get her hair done and it was a surprise for her that I booked as ahe had been housebound for the previous few weeks.

Dolbert

I'd say you're wasting your breath trying to be reasonable here ash. Apparently to some people it's preferable for a post-surgery woman to walk in severe pain than to take up one of (many) free P&C spaces which imaginary children may or may not need.

maddison1

i have four children and i have to say i agreed with quite a few of the comments in the other thread. Children are way over indulged now and i think the elderly should take priority over them when it comes to car parking. There was nt many mother and baby spaces when my first was born, and i managed fine. I wonder how these children who cant get wet or cold or walk far or have accidents will cope when they are older.

ash23

I would also be of the opinion that a blue badge holder should use a p&c space if the disabled spaces are full.

Thankfully most new car parks have sufficient disabled bays but one local store has 2 disabled bays and about ten p&c spaces.

Considering there are two sheltered housing estates nearby, it's usually not enough

Tasden

maddison1 wrote: »

i have four children and i have to say i agreed with quite a few of the comments in the other thread. Children are way over indulged now and i think the elderly should take priority over them when it comes to car parking. There was nt many mother and baby spaces when my first was born, and i managed fine. I wonder how these children who cant get wet or cold or walk far or have accidents will cope when they are older.

Oh but you don't know what issues the mother may or may not be suffering from etc. etc. :pac:

Its a car parking space, it really shouldn't bother people so much if an elderly woman with mobility issues "steals" the space.

C section recovery or any illness the mother (or child) may have doesn't matter, if you believe the sole purpose of them is just for mother and baby/extra space and that an elderly women in pain doesn't deserve it because of that fact then an ill mother shouldn't be entitled on the basis of her illness/disability either.

Bagheera

hoodwinked wrote: »

but how do you define lazy? what if the person parking there has a bad leg? or asthma and would need an inhaler to walk further?, what if someone just that morning banged their foot and can't walk properly? what if they just had minor surgery and you can't see it but they are in pain?

how do we define who it is ok to park there for and their need vs who is lazy?

Did you not read my example? The manager of the shop, who if is presumably fit to work a shift which involves being on your feet for several hours, should be fit enough to walk literally 6 or 7 extra steps instead of blocking the space for hours. As the spaces are there for courtesy rather than a legal obligation, if I see someone elderly or someone with a crutch using one, it's not going to bother me. However if I see someone who has no obvious impediment to their mobility, yes I will get irritated. I'm unlikely to say something though as life is too short and I'm usually too busy making sure my own kids are safe anyway.

tinkerbell

Dolbert wrote: »

I'd say you're wasting your breath trying to be reasonable here ash. Apparently to some people it's preferable for a post-surgery woman to walk in severe pain than to take up one of (many) free P&C spaces which imaginary children may or may not need.

I agree.

If we want to be truly technical about it, they are called "parent and child spaces" (every space I've seen says that) - they do not say "mother and baby" space or "parent and young child space".

Why does a parent and child need to park there? Because it's easier when dealing with a child, getting in/out of car seat, more space, don't have to walk miles across the car park to get to the shop.

Why did Ash have to park there? Because her mother was temporarily disabled, had crutches, had major surgery, needs extra space to get in/out of car, can't walk miles across the car park to get to the shop.

Ash was there in her capacity as the adult child with her temporarily disabled parent. It's just a role reversal. A woman who had just had a section doesn't need the space more than Ash's parent did, they both needed it equally.

uck51js9zml2yt

tinkerbell wrote: »

I agree.

If we want to be truly technical about it, they are called "parent and child spaces" (every space I've seen says that) - they do not say "mother and baby" space or "parent and young child space".

Why does a parent and child need to park there? Because it's easier when dealing with a child, getting in/out of car seat, more space, don't have to walk miles across the car park to get to the shop.

Why did Ash have to park there? Because her mother was temporarily disabled, had crutches, had major surgery, needs extra space to get in/out of car, can't walk miles across the car park to get to the shop.

Ash was there in her capacity as the adult child with her temporarily disabled parent. It's just a role reversal. A woman who had just had a section doesn't need the space more than Ash's parent did, they both needed it equally.

I was thinking the very same thing as I read through pages and pages while eating a big box of popcorn (in true Ah style)
I've 2 young kids and I have to say, anyone who begrudges a space to an obviously disabled woman (albeit temporarily) and thinks a healthy person with a child(certain assumptions made) deserves it more needs to grow up.
I'm off to get more popcorn.

CrazyRabbit

sok2005 wrote: »

All i'm saying is if you need to use the facilities of a supermarket for whatever reasons, be it hair, nails or groceries you park in a disabled spot if you are disabled, a parent and child spot if you are a parent and a regular car parking space if you are neither.

You can't just bend the rules as you see fit.

If you don't have a permit, you get clamped.

As pointed out above already, it seems that there was 3 options here:
1. Park in a disabled spot and get clamped even though one of the passengers is (temporarily) disabled.
2. Park in a regular spot and risk the mum being hurt trying to squeeze in/out of the car.
3. Park in a P&C spot. No harm to anyone, no harm to the mum & there was a genuine need to use the spot.

The problem is that people who are injured/recovering from surgery aren't given temporary permits to use disabled parking spaces. And it takes weeks to get the permits. My mum had just come out of hospital after a stroke, was in D15 Shopping centre with my sister who parked in the disabled spot. Got clamped and still had to pay to have it removed, despite an obvious stroke victim being in the car.

P.S. I think you are just trolling now.

otwb

hoodwinked wrote: »

my point was you don't know who you took that space from, it could have been a mother needing to visit the doctor due to recently having a c section, it could have been a mother with a very sick child (not always with a blue badge) trying to get some food for the week, you don't know,

if she is in that much discomfort walking why in god's name would you let her walk around a center? why not get a wheel chair or mobility scooter?

it's not about the "rights" or entitlements of parents and children it's about the fact you shouldn't use those spaces if you don't have a child. just like you wouldn't use a disability space without the genuine need to.

I spent a good bit of last year on crutches and am currently over 9 months pregnant.

Speaking from experience - You need to get out of the house to preserve your sanity when you are on crutches. No it's not comfortable to go far and I'm sure that being an older person doesn't help at all with the need to have a significant amount of strength to move around on crutches. You also need a significant amount of space to get yourself and the crutches in and out of the car. If the door doesn't open fully then you're not going anywhere.

Being heavily pregnant isn't as bad - but it's sure as hell not pleasant when you can't squeeze yourself in and out of a car door because someone has parked too closely to you. It's also not pleasant when you have to walk too far with a huge bump carrying shopping.

I have no hesitation in using the P&C spaces while on crutches and over the last couple of weeks for the above reasons. The spaces are a customer marketing tool for shopping centres and if I have a child in a buggy then all I need is space to get the child in and out of the car, not proximity to the doors for convenience rather than need. What this thread is showing up is a need to recategorise the 'parent and child' spots into 'priority parking spots' for the use of elderly/injured/those with temporary mobility problems.

No Pants

The should be some wider parking spaces at the far end of the car park too. These could be used by fat parents and/or their fat progeny. Wider spaces for them to get their fat selves out of the car without damaging anything too much and a slightly longer walk to the frozen food aisle will do them good.

I don't know what colour they would be painted, but they could use slightly more rotund stick figures as illustrations.

whiteandlight

This really reads like an after hours thread.... Parent and Child spaces are controversial additions. The only thing that i would say in relation to them is that where they are located is causing most of the hassle. There's no reason they couldn't be a little further away, then maybe there wouldn't be as many complaints

evolving_doors

Dolbert wrote: »

The majority of posters on that thread are early 20-somethings with no experience of kids, yet have all the answers. I wouldn't worry about it

I wonder were they born at age 20 also because I don't think they realise what brats they were when they were young too. Maybe start a thread about... " people who give out about children and parents but forget they were children and had parents in the past too."

PLL

I had surgery to have my daughter, I had to look after a newborn all on my own after major surgery as my partner works long hours. I did not assume i was entitled to anything. I got no special treatment off anyone. Most people rest after a major surgery and get helped to do things, I didn't, thus is life. Arguing over a parking space is insane.

I commented in that thread you are on about, yeah there is self-centered young people who think they can comment on parenting and think it is easy to tell a child to be quiet and they will. I was once one of them. I have friends that are like that, which tbh was the hardest part of having a child. People having no consideration for your circumstances. But anyway, my parenting style was mentioned in a negative way by a few people. I am a nervous mother, other people have to take my child to the playground because I get anxious she will hurt herself, I know it is crazy, but it is the way I am and I don't want her to judge things by my anxiety so other people take her and she has great fun and I don't have to worry. I personally think it is ridiculous I am like this but again, this is life.

Junk food and McDonalds should not be given to children, sorry no compromise there, it annoys me so much. It has no health benefits you are just giving your child crap. Food should also never be given as a reward, a doctor/PHN will tell you this too.

Suucee

We are all judged no matter what. Parents or not.

I will discipline my child if she acts up. I don't care if im in the middle of dunnes stores , at the MIL's or at home in my sitting room. She needs to know that behaviour is not acceptable no matter where I am. I don't care who looks an as she cries because ive disciplined her. Id rather her know right from wrong .

Re cutting the line to the loo. Not at potty training yet but I can see why this may be needed but I would feel awkward asking now especially after reading other comments thinking there may be someone in need and too polite to say so.

Not a huge fan of mc d's id rather try to get somewhere that could offer better food on a family day out. But my daughter has been to mc d's .

Even before I had kids if I heard a baby cry I would think oh poor baba. I would never judge the parent. its a process of elimination to see what is wrong.


Now the p&c spots. They are handy to get the kids in and out of the car and in to the buggy. Its handy if they are close to the door so you don't have to get wet if it is raining. I don't bring my double buggy in the car so I put baba in buggy while toddler walks. Its handier to park close so we don't get wet. If its not raining I don't really care.
If I seen a person in a P&C spot even if they looked perfect I wouldn't say anything. might be a but irked. but if they were on crutches, limping, struggling to walk I would definitely think they needed it more.

pwurple

Ooh parking spaces discussion! Love these.

I do like the new fangled parent and child spaces. I agree they don't need to be anywhere near the door, there is a shop near us where they are near the back of the carpark. Suits me fine.

I vividly remember the very worst parking with baby experience. I had gotten hemmed into a space on both sides of the car. Feckers! I waited a small while, but had to go. I ended up slipping the baby in through the small bit of door I could open, onto the drivers seat, and then climbing in through the boot myself, reversing out with baby on my lap, stopping the car in traffic, and then putting the baby into the carseat and heading off.

I've cut the line for the loo once, she was dying to go, and I asked nicely.

fima

The p&c spaces are great when they're available because I have a 3 door car and a maxi-cosi car seat. I always need to open my door fully so I can climb in and wedge baby out. I assumed that's what they're for, so I don't damage other cars or my own. Maybe I just like my car too much. They are handy also for parking the wheels of the buggy next to the car instead of behind the boot and on the road, it's much safer. I don't see them as a 'right' , if there's no p&c spaces I just drive to quieter spot in the car park. It not hard, I'm healthy and able bodied and would never begrudge anyone elderly or not so elderly on crutches or recovering from surgery for using them!

gctest50

Tasden wrote: »

Oh but you don't know what issues the mother may or may not be suffering from etc...........

you never can tell - might have been an extra big surprise :P