Small holding & dairying

Greengrass1

EamonKilkenny wrote: »

66 at the minute. On the output I think I was told the output would be back 30% but the solids would only be back 5% in total as milk solids were higher.

Very interesting. Would ye be able to tell me what solids there putting out?
I'd say cow condition is superb?

jimmy G M

EamonKilkenny wrote: »

66 at the minute. On the output I think I was told the output would be back 30% but the solids would only be back 5% in total as milk solids were higher.

Ok, thx, any view on how costs are going to pan out vs TAD, bearing in mind that this has been an exceptional year for grass...... so far.

EamonKilkenny

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Very interesting. Would ye be able to tell me what solids there putting out?
I'd say cow condition is superb?

1.32kg @4.44bf and 3.7pr at min. Condition very good and seem to have went back in calf very well. Noticed that some of the real bf cow have gone back to 12kg/day where as other ho/fr type are still doing 20 odd kg.

EamonKilkenny

jimmy G M wrote: »

Ok, thx, any view on how costs are going to pan out vs TAD, bearing in mind that this has been an exceptional year for grass...... so far.

Not yet really to be honest. They still eat the same amount. My esb bill gets estimated readings most of the time also so can't even put a figure on that. Will be able put a better figure on it later in the year but as you say last year wouldn't be a fair comparison either.

caseman

EamonKilkenny wrote: »

We are milking once a day here this year due to quota. I have often thought that it would be ideal for an off farm job. I go for cows at 6.30 and have them milking by 7am and parlor washed and ready for next day by 8.45-9am. They are slower milking obviously as putting out more in one milking. Cows really settled into it very quickly and wouldn't be bothered even at peak looking to come down in the evening.
It would make much more sense than coming home to milk in the evening after work as you would surely begin to hate it. At least then you have time to do a bit of herding and have some time for yourself and family in the evening.

Any problems with scc or increase in mastitis

Muckit

Not milking but I ring in the meter readings about a week before the bill comes out. Saves being lured into a false set of security with an underestimated bill and then getting a stinker of a bill down the line!!

jaymla627

frazzledhome wrote: »

8-10, came from extreme Hol

Thats the key with high output x-breds they need the hol blood to put out the litres, the first cross black hol/jr cow wont be beaten, a herd of them and you'd be laughing

EamonKilkenny

caseman wrote: »

Any problems with scc or increase in mastitis

No, cell count was 70k up until a month a go and has been a steady 90 since. Had one case of mastitis since the spring and two tubes fixed that. Hopefully will stay that way. They recommend if your cell count isn't below 150k you shouldn't do it as it will cause trouble.

Markcheese

keep going wrote: »

Just alittle add on to this thread , yesterday I met a german couple non holidays when I was bringing home the cows so we got talking.they told me they weere farming near Dortmund in germany and they had 12 cows in organic milk. The conversation went on and eventually they told me there weere 4 families living off the farm, that grew vegetables , all the feed for the animals and some
tillage sales.so it put me thinking, people
often ask here is it worth milking 30 or
40 cows or whatever agribusiness on a
small scale when really they should be
asking how much do they need to live
or what do they want out of life.these
people seem to be doingfine but
obviously there cant have been alot of
money.they were getting 1.20 a litre for
the milk and sold the veg direct in a
market

I visited a family "farm" in cornwall , they milked 5 jerseys,made yogurt,cheese and bottle milk.. fattened a few calves,grew spuds and veg ,kept
pigs and chickens and reckoned he had about 15 customers who did their weekly shop with him ... He used to do a bit of fencing with national trust as well...

trixi2011

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Them cows are bringing in a lot of money. 100 if them would be be nice

they have 2500 over two farms have a mate managing each unit. Worked out earlier in the year that my cow doing 390/400 made as much if not more as them as there cost were really high even tho they weren't feeding much meal

Farmer Pudsey

Timmaay wrote: »

Would milking every 16 hours work for a part time person? Just hire a milker for the midday milking, anyone who does full time milk relief would problem be happy to get an extra milking at mid day when they usually are free. It would be only 4 days a week that you need to hire the milker for, so won't break the bank. Every other day you then milk at 6am and 10am.

That would be aninteresting one milk at 6AM and 11 pm tonight and a relief milker at 1pm tomorrow. Mig be a goer until a robotic milking machine was a goer. If the grant is 40% for a robotic milker would it be a runner to work as well

trixi2011

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

That would be aninteresting one milk at 6AM and 11 pm tonight and a relief milker at 1pm tomorrow. Mig be a goer until a robotic milking machine was a goer. If the grant is 40% for a robotic milker would it be a runner to work as well

And with 16hr milking you get no drop in yields but hold and put on condition like there on once a day.

awaywithyou

I don't get this interest in robots milking the cows... You are on call 24 hrs a day with the robot.... Put in plenty of units into a straight parlour or put up a rotary whatever it takes to milk them in an hour or less.... Robots over the road from me... Herd of roughly a 100... Most of the cows have the hang of the robots and coming and going to them etc... But there are 15 cows the farmer has to go and bring to be milked...

darragh_haven

jaymla627 wrote: »

Thats the key with high output x-breds they need the hol blood to put out the litres, the first cross black hol/jr cow wont be beaten, a herd of them and you'd be laughing

Say you have a herd of these x-breeds. What should these cows go in calve to so that you can continue high out put/high % solids. Or is that the million dollar baby (calf)

Farmer Pudsey

awaywithyou wrote: »

I don't get this interest in robots milking the cows... You are on call 24 hrs a day with the robot.... Put in plenty of units into a straight parlour or put up a rotary whatever it takes to milk them in an hour or less.... Robots over the road from me... Herd of roughly a 100... Most of the cows have the hang of the robots and coming and going to them etc... But there are 15 cows the farmer has to go and bring to be milked...

If you work full time it may be a runner especially if you qualified for a 40% grant. If you set did not need much tweaking. Throw in cubicles on top of slats 60 cows if paddocks were already there it might be a economic possibility.

60 Cows milking 6K+ litres each at 33c/L is 120K in milk turnover. If it cost 100k for robot milker and change to setup and you got 40% grant.

trixi2011

darragh_haven wrote: »

Say you have a herd of these x-breeds. What should these cows go in calve to so that you can continue high out put/high % solids. Or is that the million dollar baby (calf)

Put a kiwi cross over them , infact a 3/4 Friesian 1/4 jersey would be the best of the breeds

Timmaay

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

If you work full time it may be a runner especially if you qualified for a 40% grant. If you set did not need much tweaking. Throw in cubicles on top of slats 60 cows if paddocks were already there it might be a economic possibility.

60 Cows milking 6K+ litres each at 33c/L is 120K in milk turnover. If it cost 100k for robot milker and change to setup and you got 40% grant.

The old grant was only up to 40k, or 80k if you were in a partnership. So say 80k, and at 40% that's 32k back. I thought a robot is 110 for the barebones spec? So it would still cost you 78k at least, or 94k if you were not in a partnership.

And I don't like using turnover too much, profit of 10c/l is surely a more useful measure? So you get on average 36k profit from the farm, dipping into that to cover the repayments for 80/100k robot and it doesn't look too appealing in my view! And that's not me being anti robot, from a lifestyle point of view I'd install a robot (or 2) in the morning if they did make economic sence, but they just don't yet.

Although assume you got a nice off farm job and big tax liability the sums might change, it would be the only case I could see it being favorable.

jaymla627

trixi2011 wrote: »

Put a kiwi cross over them , infact a 3/4 Friesian 1/4 jersey would be the best of the breeds

Wouldnt be a fan of going with kiwi, you end up taking the size out of the cows....if your intending on pushing the cows feeding over a ton of meal you cant stray to far away from the holstein been in the mix

Greengrass1

jaymla627 wrote: »

Wouldnt be a fan of going with kiwi, you end up taking the size out of the cows....if your intending on pushing the cows feeding over a ton of meal you cant stray to far away from the holstein been in the mix

Size? Come on if your crosbreding size if the cow does not matter. A kiwi is bigger than a jex any way. A lot if lads that have been crossbreeding for last number of yrs are going kiwi on them now or 3/4 1/4 fr/jex.
The kiwi has opened up even more possibilities with solids now.
Who needs a cow past 480-500 KGS if she can put out 550 KGS solids.

Timmaay

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Size? Come on if your crosbreding size if the cow does not matter. A kiwi is bigger than a jex any way. A lot if lads that have been crossbreeding for last number of yrs are going kiwi on them now or 3/4 1/4 fr/jex.
The kiwi has opened up even more possibilities with solids now.
Who needs a cow past 480-500 KGS if she can put out 550 KGS solids.

Using the same figures I put up on the thread about the monty bull calf against a HO, you take a 100 cow herd who cull 10 cows a year, and contrast a jex or nz fr cull value of say 300 quid against 500 for a HO (both out of the parlour), that's only a different of 2grand, nothing when you consider the cows will knock out the guts of 200k worth of milk. If just say 2 of your jex or nz last an extra lactation over a HO you got the most of that 2k saved anyways. Size means utterly nothing to me, beef value and male calves have very little impact on the overall economics.

F.D

Timmaay wrote: »

The old grant was only up to 40k, or 80k if you were in a partnership. So say 80k, and at 40% that's 32k back. I thought a robot is 110 for the barebones spec? So it would still cost you 78k at least, or 94k if you were not in a partnership.

And I don't like using turnover too much, profit of 10c/l is surely a more useful measure? So you get on average 36k profit from the farm, dipping into that to cover the repayments for 80/100k robot and it doesn't look too appealing in my view! And that's not me being anti robot, from a lifestyle point of view I'd install a robot (or 2) in the morning if they did make economic sence, but they just don't yet.

Although assume you got a nice off farm job and big tax liability the sums might change, it would be the only case I could see it being favorable.

from the point for view of changing from another enterprise the robot would have more going for it in my view especially if working away from the farm, as you dont have the twice a day routine to get used too and it would assist non dairy farmers in managment of there herd with all the information it gives back, but the main saving would be the fact it can plug into a small area and work without too much building costs that go with the parlour etc......... the main point is most beef/suckler farmers are living off there off farm wage and reinvesting the farm profit (if any) back into the business, this could continue for 5 years while paying for the robot and then then have the option to leave the job and focus on been a dairy farmer full time

TheSunderz

Greengrass1 wrote: »

60 bare acres? No parlour no shed no road ways no grass?
10unit parlour with shed and bulk tank.
20k maybe
Roadways 200e/m
Sow 60ac grass @300ac 18k if you get all work done for you
Outdoor cubicle and lagoon 30k
You still have to put in water system. Electricity
And buy your cows then.
Lot of debt there

€200 euro a meter for roadways?? Surely cheaper? Say 1km of roadways = 1000 m x 200 that's €200,000 for roadways along?

TheSunderz

Greengrass1 wrote: »

60 bare acres? No parlour no shed no road ways no grass?
10unit parlour with shed and bulk tank.
20k maybe
Roadways 200e/m
Sow 60ac grass @300ac 18k if you get all work done for you
Outdoor cubicle and lagoon 30k
You still have to put in water system. Electricity
And buy your cows then.
Lot of debt there

€200 euro a meter for roadways?? Surely cheaper? Say 1km of roadways = 1000 m x 200 that's €200,000 for roadways along?

Greengrass1

TheSunderz wrote: »

€200 euro a meter for roadways?? Surely cheaper? Say 1km of roadways = 1000 m x 200 that's €200,000 for roadways along?

Sorry 20e/m big mistake there

farmer10

Greengrass1 wrote: »

The next questioned you need to ask now which type of cow do you go for?
A big milky ho that will put out 600kgs of solids @4.2/kg
Or a jex that will put out 550kgs of ssolids @5.2/kg

Don't think theirs many jex type herds giving 550kg solids/cow. Also a kg of solids is a kg of solids!!

farmer10

exercise is the antidote wrote: »

I know a fella that lives off 80-100acres of Tillage every year. He has the same tractor and plough the last 20 years. He ploughs, fits the land, spreads fertiliser and sprays. everything else is done by a contractor.

Probably because of sfp he does??

exercise is the antidote

farmer10 wrote: »

Probably because of sfp he does??

Without a doubt.

mikefoxo

Had been watching this thread with interest. Now that the milk price has fallen and is forecast to be poor for the next year, what would the effect be on a small dairy enterprise? Would it still be worth someones time starting up a small herd?

Deepsouthwest

mikefoxo wrote: »

Had been watching this thread with interest. Now that the milk price has fallen and is forecast to be poor for the next year, what would the effect be on a small dairy enterprise? Would it still be worth someones time starting up a small herd?

The upside of the poor milk price will be that new entrants will be able to buy into cows cheaper nxt yr, the downside is they won't make any money out of them!

F.D

mikefoxo wrote: »

Had been watching this thread with interest. Now that the milk price has fallen and is forecast to be poor for the next year, what would the effect be on a small dairy enterprise? Would it still be worth someones time starting up a small herd?

depends how big the borrowings are if there are only starting small and using cashflow to do jobs should be OK. i would imagine

just do it

Greengrass1 wrote: »

10unit parlour with shed and bulk tank.
20k maybe

You think 20k could get you a new shed for parlour and all necessary milking equipment 2nd hand? Just add cows!

Markcheese

mikefoxo wrote: »

Had been watching this thread with interest. Now that the milk price has fallen and is forecast to be poor for the next year, what would the effect be on a small dairy enterprise? Would it still be worth someones time starting up a small herd?

A lot depends on what your planning to do with the milk -if you're planning on borrowing large and supplying milk to the co-op , then there's probably not much in it...
If you have another plan/market for the milk that's insulated from world price then maybe-

Greengrass1

just do it wrote: »

You think 20k could get you a new shed for parlour and all necessary milking equipment 2nd hand? Just add cows!

Definitely should jdi now provided you do a good bit of work yourself?
Good few 8-10 units on done deal for less than 1k/unit

Milked out

Markcheese wrote: »

A lot depends on what your planning to do with the milk -if you're planning on borrowing large and supplying milk to the co-op , then there's probably not much in it...
If you have another plan/market for the milk that's insulated from world price then maybe-

mikefoxo wrote: »

Had been watching this thread with interest. Now that the milk price has fallen and is forecast to be poor for the next year, what would the effect be on a small dairy enterprise? Would it still be worth someones time starting up a small herd?

If you are starting up you would need to look at an average price over a number of years, basing the decision on one year is misleading. Obviously a part of the plan will have to include scenarios for surviving low prices or possibly delaying starting if possible untill the outlook improves but that may cost more in the long run

just do it

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Definitely should jdi now provided you do a good bit of work yourself?
Good few 8-10 units on done deal for less than 1k/unit

There are a lot of attractions to OAD particularly as a part-timer starting up. Capital costs - Smaller bulk tank, roads needn't be to as high a standard etc. Also for wet land the smaller cow is an advantage. She's also well able for OTCs.

Greengrass1

just do it wrote: »

There are a lot of attractions to OAD particularly as a part-timer starting up. Capital costs - Smaller bulk tank, roads needn't be to as high a standard etc. Also for wet land the smaller cow is an advantage. She's also well able for OTCs.

See a nice few 8-10 units there on done deal with feeders for 2k if ye do go for something like that bring a tech to check it over

just do it

Greengrass1 wrote: »

See a nice few 8-10 units there on done deal with feeders for 2k if ye do go for something like that bring a tech to check it over

To be honest I'd look at local lads that will do the whole lot including service after, depending on price of course!

caseman

just do it wrote: »

You think 20k could get you a new shed for parlour and all necessary milking equipment 2nd hand? Just add cows!

I don't think it could be done for 20k. I'm at one here at the moment and had the shed for the parlour and the dairy.
I'm doing alot of the work myself and i'd say i'll have the best part of 20k spent.
I'll give a update in the middle of jan the date it has to be finished. Looks like my christmas will be spent in the parlour.

kowtow

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Definitely should jdi now provided you do a good bit of work yourself?
Good few 8-10 units on done deal for less than 1k/unit

Certainly a good bit of second hand stuff around.

Although frightening how quickly things add up - especially rubber (which I imagine most people would want to replace on a 2nd hand unit no matter how clean the rest of it)..

Try and save as much as you can buying the parlour is my advice.

Then you have something left to buy the bloody disinfectant with.

Greengrass1

We did block work here in a 5 bay old style hay shed for parlour
First bay dairy/machine room
Troughs are concrete not ideal but functional.
10k gallon tank
And all frame work to fit new 12 unit in for 15 k.
Our own 6 unit still in it.
Had 50k kept for parlour but had to be spent elsewere