Reinstalling a slipstreamed XP Pro SP3 on a PC

rubadub

I am going to try and reinstall XP PRO with SP3 slipstreamed onto it, its an old PC. -don't bother telling me to use 7 or to try a linux OS! PC is old and the user wants what they are used to.

The PC already had XP pro installed and has a product key on the PC case. I was just wondering if this product key should work with the slipstreamed version of XP or does it really need to be the original disk (which I do not have).

Fysh

rubadub wrote: »

I am going to try and reinstall XP PRO with SP3 slipstreamed onto it, its an old PC. -don't bother telling me to use 7 or to try a linux OS! PC is old and the user wants what they are used to.

The PC already had XP pro installed and has a product key on the PC case. I was just wondering if this product key should work with the slipstreamed version of XP or does it really need to be the original disk (which I do not have).

The key on the case will be an OEM key. If your slipstreamed disk is also an OEM version and matches the same version as the OEM CoA on the box you should be ok. Otherwise it won't work.

"What they are used to" is all very well, but what they're going to get is an OS whose security holes are well-documented and which won't be fixed - so all you're really doing is making even more work for yourself whenever it inevitably gets riddled with some crapware. (Don't forget that getting someone to use XP without an administrator account is extremely unlikely to work...)

rubadub

Fysh wrote: »

Otherwise it won't work.

Cheers, it didn't take it, think it was a retail ISO. I still put it in just to see if it would load up alright, I was not even sure if the PC was OK. I will get the OEM ISO and give it a go as it did install OK.

Fysh wrote: »

Don't forget that getting someone to use XP without an administrator account is extremely unlikely to work...

Are you saying if they do not have an admin account they are less likely to get this "crapware"?

All they want is internet browsing, thunderbird/email and open office.

Fysh

rubadub wrote: »

Are you saying if they do not have an admin account they are less likely to get this "crapware"?

All they want is internet browsing, thunderbird/email and open office.

It helps mitigate the problem, because it means that if any application they use has an exploit to allow privilege elevation, the exploit won't necessarily be able to get administrative privileges in the OS itself. (This works better when the OS is receiving regular security updates to patch any new holes, but good security practice is good security practice...)

The only problem is that if they're someone who can't be trusted with admin rights, keeping the machine up to date is a pain. Even Secunia's PSI can't do automatic updates all the time, though at least you can set Windows Updates to install immediately and automatically via GPI.

PropJoe10

To be honest, I would not trust a general PC user to use XP unless they are strictly kept to a Limited user account. People seem blinded by adds for crapware and this is very dangerous on XP now that its unpatched and unsupported. If your user only wants to use XP, a few suggestions for you would be:

- Make sure they ONLY use Firefox/Chrome and remove IE from Add/Remove Programs >> Add/Remove Windows Components.
- Set them up on a limited account and warn them that they wont be able to install anything other than whats already installed. It'll be a pain for you, but it should keep the PC in decent running order for longer!
- Use a third-party firewall such as Comodo - they do a free antivirus/firewall combo which I've used and is pretty good.
- Install AVG/Avast (or Comodo) and also MalwareBytes and tell them to run Malwarebytes once a week or so themselves.

The above should help a little to keep XP useable and safe but as a PC technician, I wouldnt be responsible for handing over an XP PC to a regular user without telling them that they arent in a secure environment and you're not taking responsibility for loss of data!

Hope this helps.

Overheal

I'm guessing whoever this user is they were also at one point used to a rotary dial telephone. Hell even I've had one of those. Doesn't stop them from using a smartphone now, does it?

Not to harp but the OS is obsolete, and potentially hazardous to use. They might not consider themselves a "high value target" but loopholes can be exploited en mass - they could be one of thousands of people that get hit from any vulnerability. Suddenly your passwords or documents get compromised.

The biggest point of contention though, is it takes far less energy to adapt to the new OSs than it does to keep the old one functional through third party 'fixes' and workarounds. Lot less.

gctest50

rubadub wrote: »

..........
All they want is internet browsing, thunderbird/email and open office.

That's what they all say

- then after a few months they go buying stuff online and their credit card/ bank account gets cleaned out

Capt'n Midnight

Overheal wrote: »

Not to harp but the OS is obsolete, and potentially hazardous to use. They might not consider themselves a "high value target" but loopholes can be exploited en mass - they could be one of thousands of people that get hit from any vulnerability. Suddenly your passwords or documents get compromised.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/4423733.stm

Jacques wanted to demonstrate just how risky it is to connect an unprotected PC to the internet.

We set up a poor Windows XP machine with no firewall or anti-virus software.

Connecting it to the internet would be like throwing it into a lion pen with raw meat strapped to its hard drive.

How long would it be before we were hit by something nasty on the net? Hours, minutes?

As it turned out - eight seconds!

That's what XP users are heading back to.


XP might be fine for standalone uses , but not live browsing on the interweb.

and TBH if all you use the PC for is interweb then consider something like xubuntu

There is also the small consideration that computers with XP licenses are well past their sell by date. Hard drives don't last forever.

PropJoe10

My parents used XP on their home computer for years. I now have them using Xubuntu on the PC and Windows 7 on the laptop, and they've had no bother with either. Its very easy to set a user up on something like Lubuntu, with Firefox/Chrome, Open Office and Thunderbird. And it would be much safer for the user than having them using XP.

rubadub

Overheal wrote: »

I'm guessing whoever this user is they were also at one point used to a rotary dial telephone. Hell even I've had one of those. Doesn't stop them from using a smartphone now, does it?

I only managed to wean him off the nokia 3210 a few years ago! and it was a struggle to find a phone basic enough, smartphone were not even on the cards!

PropJoe10 wrote: »

My parents used XP on their home computer for years. I now have them using Xubuntu on the PC

I had ubuntu variants on the last one but the printer was not supported and the wireless gave trouble. The PC packed in a while ago so they could not print using it anyway. They also have a laptop so might have gotten used to printing using it instead.

Given all the warnings here I might have another go with a light ubuntu OS. The wireless situation might be improved by now, it was a fairly new wireless device at the time.

-Thanks to everyone for the advice!

PropJoe10

rubadub wrote: »

I only managed to wean him off the nokia 3210 a few years ago! and it was a struggle to find a phone basic enough, smartphone were not even on the cards!

I had ubuntu variants on the last one but the printer was not supported and the wireless gave trouble. The PC packed in a while ago so they could not print using it anyway. They also have a laptop so might have gotten used to printing using it instead.

Given all the warnings here I might have another go with a light ubuntu OS. The wireless situation might be improved by now, it was a fairly new wireless device at the time.

-Thanks to everyone for the advice!

Try Lubuntu, it runs nice and light and the menus are quite similar to what Windows 2000 looked like. And if you must, you can always make it look like XP

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/04/windows-xp-theme-lubuntu

Overheal

you'll thank yourself when they have to deal with flash and java updates

Fysh

One thing you need to be very sure of telling this user: if they even think about putting in their credit card or online banking details, it's all on them. Saying "I just want internet access" is fine - but plenty of stuff that people associate with internet access involves sensitive or confidential information, and it's simply impossible to guarantee that such information will be protected on a legacy OS like XP. So basically the only stuff they'll be able to do is stuff that they may well not much miss in the first place.

TBH in your shoes I'd have just refused to have anything to do with it. If it's a job that can't be done well, nobody wins by agreeing to do it badly.

Overheal

It's impossible to guarantee even on a new OS even, but a near-certainty your data will be compromised on a system with such well documented security holes

200motels

Yesterday a friend of mine came to me with a Dell Inspiron laptop to fix as she said it was running very slow, so I said I'd have a look and I thought XP was on it as it had an Xp sticker on it, but when I booted it, to my surprise it had Windows 2000 on it, she's had it about 10 years or so and all the time using the net with that, I told her to dump the thing and get a new one, she said no, so I cleaned it up and she took it away. Crazy.

PropJoe10

200motels wrote: »

Yesterday a friend of mine came to me with a Dell Inspiron laptop to fix as she said it was running very slow, so I said I'd have a look and I thought XP was on it as it had an Xp sticker on it, but when I booted it, to my surprise it had Windows 2000 on it, she's had it about 10 years or so and all the time using the net with that, I told her to dump the thing and get a new one, she said no, so I cleaned it up and she took it away. Crazy.

Thats crazy stuff. People have no concept of safety and security on the internet at all. And then they wonder why their email etc gets hacked. I would've made sure that it had an "accident" before going back to her, if that had been me! haha

Overheal

So in 2003 XP was too new for said person and they wanted to go back to Win2k? Good lord.

200motels

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Thats crazy stuff. People have no concept of safety and security on the internet at all. And then they wonder why their email etc gets hacked. I would've made sure that it had an "accident" before going back to her, if that had been me! haha

It's like a pet to her, I did tell her not to connect to the net, she said what's the point in having it then, exactly I said, their is no point, even if she got a second hand one with Vista, but no she's having none of it. It's people like her that keep spreading viruses and the like.

Fysh

200motels wrote: »

Yesterday a friend of mine came to me with a Dell Inspiron laptop to fix as she said it was running very slow, so I said I'd have a look and I thought XP was on it as it had an Xp sticker on it, but when I booted it, to my surprise it had Windows 2000 on it, she's had it about 10 years or so and all the time using the net with that, I told her to dump the thing and get a new one, she said no, so I cleaned it up and she took it away. Crazy.

You're not helping by cleaning it up. As I said upthread, if someone refuses to do something properly, nobody wins by helping them do it the stupid way.

I would absolutely refuse to touch a computer that a friend or family member asked for help with if they insisted, after my explanation, that they were sticking with XP. You won't get the satisfaction of doing a good job, they won't get something that can be reliably used, and worst of all if it goes wrong again it comes back to you because:
a) you "fixed" it last, and
b) you're still willing to help people run obsolete OSs.

PropJoe10

Fysh wrote: »

You're not helping by cleaning it up. As I said upthread, if someone refuses to do something properly, nobody wins by helping them do it the stupid way.

I would absolutely refuse to touch a computer that a friend or family member asked for help with if they insisted, after my explanation, that they were sticking with XP. You won't get the satisfaction of doing a good job, they won't get something that can be reliably used, and worst of all if it goes wrong again it comes back to you because:
a) you "fixed" it last, and
b) you're still willing to help people run obsolete OSs.

I think you're being pretty harsh on 200motels. He did say to the user that its pointless and to throw the machine away. If grown adults want to be stupid about the technology to use, even after being warned of the consequences of doing it, then thats really their own decision to make. Just my opinion.

200motels

PropJoe10 wrote: »

I think you're being pretty harsh on 200motels. He did say to the user that its pointless and to throw the machine away. If grown adults want to be stupid about the technology to use, even after being warned of the consequences of doing it, then thats really their own decision to make. Just my opinion.

I agree, I told her but she was adamant that I sort it for her or she would take it to someone else. I did sort it for her and she rang me and can't get over how fast it's running, again I told her to get rid of it but no she said she likes it, what can one do when people are stuck in their ways, I forgot to mention that I said to her that I could put Linux on it and she said what? I explained the benefits of having an up to date system and I might as well have been talking to the wall. Stupid I'm not as I have a degree in computer maintainance and networks and I don't proclaim I know everything about computers quite the contrary I'm learning every day.

PropJoe10

200motels wrote: »

I agree, I told her but she was adamant that I sort it for her or she would take it to someone else. I did sort it for her and she rang me and can't get over how fast it's running, again I told her to get rid of it but no she said she likes it, what can one do when people are stuck in their ways, I forgot to mention that I said to her that I could put Linux on it and she said what? I explained the benefits of having an up to date system and I might as well have been talking to the wall. Stupid I'm not as I have a degree in computer maintainance and networks and I don't proclaim I know everything about computers quite the contrary I'm learning every day.

I would never refuse a job such as that but I would make sure that the user is aware that by using an old unpatched OS, your bank details etc are at risk of being hacked. Once you mention bank details, it usually tends to focus people's minds. Although you could say that using Windows 2000 these days is probably safer than using XP, because nobody would bother targeting Windows 2000 seeing as nobody uses it anymore. Whereas about 25% of the world is still using XP.

Capt'n Midnight

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Although you could say that using Windows 2000 these days is probably safer than using XP, because nobody would bother targeting Windows 2000 seeing as nobody uses it anymore. Whereas about 25% of the world is still using XP.

No it's not safer because lots of vulnerabilities found are generic / pre-existing. IIRC the oldest hole found in windows was there for 15 years

It's almost enough to make you fire up NT3.51 up in a VM to see what modern exploits worked on it.

Fysh

PropJoe10 wrote: »

I think you're being pretty harsh on 200motels. He did say to the user that its pointless and to throw the machine away. If grown adults want to be stupid about the technology to use, even after being warned of the consequences of doing it, then thats really their own decision to make. Just my opinion.

200motels wrote: »

I agree, I told her but she was adamant that I sort it for her or she would take it to someone else. I did sort it for her and she rang me and can't get over how fast it's running, again I told her to get rid of it but no she said she likes it, what can one do when people are stuck in their ways, I forgot to mention that I said to her that I could put Linux on it and she said what? I explained the benefits of having an up to date system and I might as well have been talking to the wall. Stupid I'm not as I have a degree in computer maintainance and networks and I don't proclaim I know everything about computers quite the contrary I'm learning every day.

I didn't mean it in a harsh sense, though my choice of words wasn't very good. In particular, the only thing I meant to suggest was stupid was the user's decision to keep running an obsolete OS - not that anything 200motels did to enable that was stupid. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

What I'm trying to get at is more along the lines of "helping someone solve the symptoms of a problem without addressing the root cause should be avoided". I deal with a lot of legacy systems at work, and it can frequently be a fun challenge to figure out how to keep them running - but the equipment managers are required to give us reasons to keep them in operation. Often it's something like "Nobody makes this kind of interface any more, it's only supported under Win98/2K/XP, we don't have the £500K budget to replace the industrial system that is controlled through this interface, so we need the computer to be kept running". Which is fair enough. Not so when it's "but I don't like Windows 7".

If there isn't a compelling reason to keep it going - like "I need to use this accountancy program for my small business and moving to anything else will cost me loads more than a new computer", for example - then it should be replaced. I don't think it's a problem to make the provision of my help and expertise contingent on actually taking my advice.

PropJoe10

Fysh wrote: »

I didn't mean it in a harsh sense, though my choice of words wasn't very good. In particular, the only thing I meant to suggest was stupid was the user's decision to keep running an obsolete OS - not that anything 200motels did to enable that was stupid. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

What I'm trying to get at is more along the lines of "helping someone solve the symptoms of a problem without addressing the root cause should be avoided". I deal with a lot of legacy systems at work, and it can frequently be a fun challenge to figure out how to keep them running - but the equipment managers are required to give us reasons to keep them in operation. Often it's something like "Nobody makes this kind of interface any more, it's only supported under Win98/2K/XP, we don't have the £500K budget to replace the industrial system that is controlled through this interface, so we need the computer to be kept running". Which is fair enough. Not so when it's "but I don't like Windows 7".

If there isn't a compelling reason to keep it going - like "I need to use this accountancy program for my small business and moving to anything else will cost me loads more than a new computer", for example - then it should be replaced. I don't think it's a problem to make the provision of my help and expertise contingent on actually taking my advice.

Nah you're absolutely right. I was just defending 200motels because I'm sure if he had refused the job, someone else would've done it for her anyway. Its a cut-throat world out there, gotta keep the money rolling in while you can

200motels

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Nah you're absolutely right. I was just defending 200motels because I'm sure if he had refused the job, someone else would've done it for her anyway. Its a cut-throat world out there, gotta keep the money rolling in while you can

Exactly, only yesterday I got in a Windows 8 laptop which was full of malware and junk but it was a dream working with an up-to-date system even though I'm not a fan of 8 it is very very fast when working well and I put the third party start button on it and the person is delighted as it works now like 7 only faster.

PropJoe10

200motels wrote: »

Exactly, only yesterday I got in a Windows 8 laptop which was full of malware and junk but it was a dream working with an up-to-date system even though I'm not a fan of 8 it is very very fast when working well and I put the third party start button on it and the person is delighted as it works now like 7 only faster.

I think I've discussed Windows 8 with you in other threads, the metro thing is shocking but when you install Classic Shell its absolutely great. Fast, lean on resources and definitely a step above 7. I have moved on from 7 completely and have no interest in touching it again.