Ireland U20 2015 6 nations and junior world cup

Hagz

kingofthekong wrote: »

I'm astonished porter has been dropped despite proving he's a superior scrummager to Loughman

In fairness, he was only on the field for one scrum. He came on with fresh legs alongside Conan O'Donnell and had one scrum. I don't know if that's proof he's a superior scrummager to Loughman.

wise7

Hagz wrote: »

In fairness, he was only on the field for one scrum. He came on with fresh legs alongside Conan O'Donnell and had one scrum. I don't know if that's proof he's a superior scrummager to Loughman.

The problem was with the loosehead side, It was the tighthead side and the ref gave the wrong prop the yellow card. The commentators also got it wrong. Porter did ok but when Loughman came back on the improved scrum continued. What does that tell you?

specttator

match not being televised by RTE, any idea where it can be seen?

casino1996

I think Dardis is too small/slight for pro rugby and haven't been that impressed with his basics or option taking.
Shame as he looked excellent at schools level.

wp_rathead

specttator wrote: »

match not being televised by RTE, any idea where it can be seen?

They showing women's match instead?
If that's the case the u20 prob be online on RTE player

molloyjh

wprathead wrote: »

They showing women's match instead?
If that's the case the u20 prob be online on RTE player

Assuming the game is being televised at all. We're dependent on getting a feed from one of the local stations.

typhoony

casino1996 wrote: »

I think Dardis is too small/slight for pro rugby and haven't been that impressed with his basics or option taking.
Shame as he looked excellent at schools level.

I was thinking the same, he looks like one of those players that was well developed at schools but has reached the limit of his physical development.

FrannoFan

typhoony wrote: »

I was thinking the same, he looks like one of those players that was well developed at schools but has reached the limit of his physical development.

Add him to the list of players that Girvan Dempsey has over rated since he took over as academy manager maybe?

I think he is a good player. He has a nice balanced running style but 20's often comes down to size. He might come back in a couple of years as a senior player when he has had a chance to bulk up.

Hagz

He's taller and heavier than Jordan Williams who was absolutely devastating at u20 level and is very useful for the Scarlets. Although Dardis doesn't seem to have the level of footwork he has.

RedemptionZ

typhoony wrote: »

I was thinking the same, he looks like one of those players that was well developed at schools but has reached the limit of his physical development.

Even at schools rugby I thought he looked slight and relied on his footwork to get him out of trouble. At the same time there's no way he can't put on more lean weight within two years. Too small at the moment though yes I agree.

The Lost Sheep

So 2 former Irish Exiles playing for England.
http://www.fifteenrugby.com/pro-rugby/news/england/england-u20-name-side-for-title-decider-v-france/

Shame game wont be televised
http://www.irishrugby.ie/ireland/34145.php#.VQsABqOvncs

kingofthekong

Kind of irritates me despite the vast depth that England have at this level they end up nicking two exiles who were deemed surplus to requirements until Ireland decided to pick them up , feels like a situation of we'll pick them so you can't

bradders90

kingofthekong wrote: »

Kind of irritates me despite the vast depth that England have at this level they end up nicking two exiles who were deemed surplus to requirements until Ireland decided to pick them up , feels like a situation of we'll pick them so you can't

Well sometimes the pathway to England u16/17/18 honors can be very narrow, where if you miss out on one trial or play one bad game at a high level , then thats it. I know Treadwell (the monster of a lock) had this happen and him and Sam Arnold (Ulster centre) were both rated very highly by Quins. Arnold chose Ulster over Quins while Treadwell chose quins over - i believe Leinster.

PS. I know that last years Ireland clubs u18 prop (exile) Jake Byrne has signed with Ulster.

RobbieRuns

The situation can be the other way round sometimes. Exiles are not offered anything by the irish provinces and take up an offer from an English academy. I was led to believe that Treadwell was not offered anything by any irish Acacdemy and Quins did. Sometimes the best we offer is sub academy and that is not always taken up. I might be wrong, but I would say that England are not picking them to stop them playing for ireland, they are picking them because they are good enough to play for England.

It does show however that the Exiles are identifying good rugby players, if they are not offered anything here, you can't blame them for throwing their lot in with England or Wales or whoever.

kingofthekong

Jesus if Treadwell wasn't offered anything in Ireland I'd be extremely surprised he's a far better player than any irish lock at this age

RobbieRuns

If the most you were offered was a sub academy place, as an Exile you would have to come here, pay for your own food, your own rent, your own university studies and general upkeep with no guarantee that you would get a full academy place. Against the option of a full academy offer in London were you could live and study at home.

Treadwell was brilliant for the irish U18 Clubs in a game when I saw him (beating England in Ashbourne!). Piers O'Connor was never on the Irish radar as far as I know, he played for the touring Exiles but don't think that he has ever played for any Irish underage team? Did he get picked or was he overlooked for the U18 Clubs?

English Lurker

Piers O'Connor played for Ireland U19 along with most of the current Ireland U20 team in the game against Australia U19. Forget when it was.

ArmchairQB

RobbieRuns wrote: »

If the most you were offered was a sub academy place, as an Exile you would have to come here, pay for your own food, your own rent, your own university studies and general upkeep with no guarantee that you would get a full academy place. Against the option of a full academy offer in London were you could live and study at home.

Treadwell was brilliant for the irish U18 Clubs in a game when I saw him (beating England in Ashbourne!). Piers O'Connor was never on the Irish radar as far as I know, he played for the touring Exiles but don't think that he has ever played for any Irish underage team? Did he get picked or was he overlooked for the U18 Clubs?

Unless of course you get one of the elite college scholarships at UCD or one of the other colleges

kingofthekong

A lot of the welsh team that beat Ireland are eligible next year which makes the result even more incredible , would be liked to see Ireland do the same with the likes of stockdale and porter and give them some decent game time or it could men vs boys again next year

Bridge93

kingofthekong wrote: »

A lot of the welsh team that beat Ireland are eligible next year which makes the result even more incredible , would be liked to see Ireland do the same with the likes of stockdale and porter and give them some decent game time or it could men vs boys again next year

So you want Ireland to pick players this year so that they have experience for next year??
Why would next year be any more important than this? You pick what you think is your best team. Coaching team got it wrong against Wales.

Hagz

kingofthekong wrote: »

A lot of the welsh team that beat Ireland are eligible next year which makes the result even more incredible , would be liked to see Ireland do the same with the likes of stockdale and porter and give them some decent game time or it could men vs boys again next year

Only 5 of the Welsh XV are eligible next year. The TH, no.6, OH, FB and Outside Centre.

kingofthekong

5 of the starting xv and then another 5 on the bench thats 10 out of the 23 , your definition of a lot must be very different to mine.......

Hagz

kingofthekong wrote: »

5 of the starting xv and then another 5 on the bench thats 10 out of the 23 , your definition of a lot must be very different to mine.......

Those 5 on the bench only got about 8 minutes a piece though.

It was just the fact that you said it makes the result 'even more incredible', and that it could be 'men against boys' next year as a result.

I wouldn't agree with that. I wouldn't agree first of all that the result was incredible in the first place. It was a pretty poor game all round other than the breakaway Welsh try.
The game was won in the set piece, and the only underage Welsh lad who had an impact there was the TH. The backs were pretty much anonymous other than that try. To give you an idea of how little the backs were involved, the Welsh fly-half only passed the ball 9 times the entire game.

It wasn't 'men against boys' this year because we lacked in experience. 7 of our XV had experience at u20 level. It was men against boys because Carolan chose a light tight 5, few jumpers and because as usual we are vulnerable at TH and Wales are notorious for their scrummaging.

kingofthekong

8 minutes is more beneficial than no minutes , and some of those subs started other games in the six nations for exaple the hooker started against England and others got game time against other teams this year thus exposing them to this level of rugby which can only serve them well for next year , we have 1 starting player back next year compared to wales staring xv of 5 , 5 times more is a lot and then of course practically the whole bench which I've already mentioned

The Lost Sheep

kingofthekong wrote: »

8 minutes is more beneficial than no minutes, and some of those subs started other games in the six nations for exaple the hooker started against England and others got game time against other teams this year thus exposing them to this level of rugby which can only serve them well for next year, we have 1 starting player back next year compared to wales staring xv of 5, 5 times more is a lot and then of course practically the whole bench which I've already mentioned

While 20s, like any age grade team at any level, is all about development. Why restrict ourselves?
Yes Wales have lots who are playing 20s this year as under 19s but we had the same last year. You pick the strongest team possible and that's what we've done

Playing a few players a year up doesn't help stop or counter the possibility of games being "men against boys" next year.
You play guys a year up if good enough and capable of coping physically amongst other things. Remember in Ireland most guys are for Irish 20s only in a pro set up, as in full academy at max for 2 years while playing 20s. That isn't case with other countries.
The guys who are born in 96 while be picked if good enough for the 20s this year
Why think of next year when you have to think firstly of next year. Use the 19s games to think about next year with the very very best players, born in 96, playing a year up

RobbieRuns

English Lurker wrote: »

Piers O'Connor played for Ireland U19 along with most of the current Ireland U20 team in the game against Australia U19. Forget when it was.

That is correct, he came on as a replacement towards the end against Australia schools. (he is a full back so I would say that he was competeing with Dardis, also maybe Gaffney, Owens, Fitzgerald, Stockdale) Not sure how long he played in that game. Then later in the season when Ireland had two teams picked to play France in April (35 man squad I think it was) he was not chosen on this extended squad. So he was probably told that he was not good enough and was not under consideration. If he went back home to England, played his rugby there with his club, did well and they came offering him a 20's call up, I would not blame him for taking it. Sometimes it is not a case of these lads giving up on Irish call up's. It is Ireland selectors giving up on them.

typhoony

has anyone found a link where this game can be watched?

The Lost Sheep

Game isn't on tv
Will update for those who're not on twitter..

The Lost Sheep

Game is on BBC red button.

Hagz

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Game is on BBC red button.

Is it on now?

All I'm getting is Italy v Wales.

Hagz

Jeremy Loughman and Zac McCall out. Lagan and McBurney into the XV.

Flipper22

I've only got Wales Italy on the red button, anyone know what the story is?

The Pheasant2

Hagz wrote: »

Is it on now?

All I'm getting is Italy v Wales.

Same here. Incidentally Italy are leading and Wales are a man down - Hon the Azurri

captbarnacles

think ire on after this

Hagz

Apparently it will be shown once this game ends. We'll have to just wait and see.

captbarnacles

woooowah italy matched at 35-1 in running

The Pheasant2

21-16 to Italy - Wales just given penalty o Italy's line. Warning given to Italy for repeated infringing at scrum

Hagz

7-0 to Scotland after a maul.

The Pheasant2

Italy 8 carded - Wales going for scrum, penalty try might be coming

kingofthekong

Scotland have already scored a try with just 2 minutes on the clock

Hagz

Looks like Wales' scrum will earn them a victory again.

The Pheasant2

Italian hooker binned. 1 second on the clock

The Pheasant2

Penalty try Wales win 21 - 23

Fireball07

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

Penalty try Wales win 21 - 23

Booooooo

kingofthekong

Reading tweets on twitter and Ireland sound like a shambles , can someone write a halftime summary please

Hagz

Scotland maul it over again.

Doesn't look like it's going to be shown.

typhoony

big task for Carolan to prepare a weak bunch of forwards for the JWC. what a waste of a talented backline excluding the scrumhalf

kingofthekong

The performance of the pack has been one of the worst of any u20s team I've seen , I'm surprised they're not short on talent

captbarnacles

Where can I read live tweets?

Hagz

captbarnacles wrote: »

Where can I read live tweets?

@rugby_ie