Ireland U20 2015 6 nations and junior world cup

RobbieRuns

Yes, of course there are changes for teams moving forwards through age grade rugby, but should we not be improving as players and as a team. We pride ourselves on getting better in this country as we progress from 18's through to 20's.

I don't really buy into the backs are brilliant the forwards are rubbish either, you win as a team and lose as a team. Our forwards were dominated in the scrums v Wales and we still could have won that game.

Thing is for me, as I watch England about to win the six nations, we were better than them and should have won that game in Donnybrook. We did beat France well. They will finish top and we will just have one below us (Italy!). The start that we had in this campaign was worthy of winning it. Coaching set up has to accept a lot of responsibility for that.

kingofthekong

Phelan and O'sullivan are impressive but perhaps being from leinster may hamper theeir chances at being picked ahead of lagan whos a starter for the ulster 20s

bradders90

Obri1 wrote: »

Well there are other players around Frank Bradshaw Ryan at 6,9 second row from Munster, JP Phelan 6,2 115kg tight head from UCD/Leinster, Eric O'sulliven 6,1 112 kg loose from Dublin university/ Leinster, Greg Jones big back row from UCD/Leinster, Charlie rock scrum half from belvedere (McCarty has been poor in my opinion) all have been playing excellently for there clubs and are up to the age which does make a big difference in the pack at this age, Mcveigh Buccaneers/Connacht to start so in fairness there are loads of other options out there to look at, it is really disappointing to see them finish 5th I thought they would do a lot better than that.

Fair enough, but if we have so many options i really don't get why we are not using them.

specttator

kingofthekong wrote: »

Phelan and O'sullivan are impressive but perhaps being from leinster may hamper theeir chances at being picked ahead of lagan whos a starter for the ulster 20s

interesting comment, this. There is a slight implication here that there is an onus on the coaching staff to spread their selection across all provinces irrespective of the consequences for the team performance,

typhoony

well this is not about winning it's all about developing players according to Carolan, bull**** of the highest order, any front row forward would regress not develope if they were getting dominated in scrums game after game

kingofthekong

your missing my point , i mean theyre lacking in game time because for examle phelan doesnt start as far as i know and i think hes behind loughman at ucd also

Stainalert

specttator wrote: »

interesting comment, this. There is a slight implication here that there is an onus on the coaching staff to spread their selection across all provinces irrespective of the consequences for the team performance,

I think one of the criticisms of this coaching team could be that they haven't looked beyond the 20's interpros and academies. There have been plenty of late developers in the last few years who come in under the radar to the Irish 20s set up so to speak. The problem is that most of these coaches have been directly involved in the academy / IRFU set ups so to pick from outside of them is almost an admission of their own failings

Stainalert

kingofthekong wrote: »

your missing my point , i mean theyre lacking in game time because for examle phelan doesnt start as far as i know and i think hes behind loughman at ucd also

So Phelan is playing for UCD U20s 2nds? That is daft - Why wouldn't he move club?

kingofthekong

no i think he might bench for the firsts , someone on here will know and correct me if im wrong , hes a quality player though

kingofthekong

is Adam Mcburney eligible next year?

Stainalert

kingofthekong wrote: »

no i think he might bench for the firsts , someone on here will know and correct me if im wrong , hes a quality player though

Can't be 1sts - Loughman has barely played 1sts for UCD this season

kingofthekong

the ucd 20s

Obri1

kingofthekong wrote: »

your missing my point , i mean theyre lacking in game time because for examle phelan doesnt start as far as i know and i think hes behind loughman at ucd also

Well he's supposed to be playing brilliant while loughman was with the irish team, better scrummager at tight over the last few months I've been told which seems to be needed from what I've been watching at this stage, but either way they need to go find some new lads cause what they have been doing is not working, in my opinion the development should be carried out by the provinces and this should just be the best players available played to try and win it which gives a lift to rugby as a sport in the country which leads to better players in future years.

kingofthekong

and eric o'sullivan and phelan wouldve subbed behind loughman and porter for leinster interpros

kingofthekong

still highly doubt phelan will get a look in , i hope im wrong

.ak

kingofthekong wrote: »

Shambles , joke , wanna buy a dictionary ? , get some steroids pumped into the boys , that'll sort em haha

kingofthekong wrote: »

You need to relax , its a joke you might need a dictionary for that word too

Don't be a dick. No need for the uncivil jibes.

wise7

kingofthekong wrote: »

I havent seen the game but from the sounds of it the backs were quite good , can a member who watched the game on the red button tell me if any of the forwards were good tonite?

saw the whole game. Their pack were highly organised and the two tries they got from a driving maul off a lineout was text book stuff but unfortunately our guys had no clue how to defend it. Also the scrums in first half were a disaster. Big improvement in second half in this department. We coughed up 3 lineouts in first half also due to a lack of coordination with lifts and timing. Both the maul defence and the lineouts are surely down to coaching as much as player personnel? The try we got in first half was one of the best I have seen in years. Brilliant pace on the ball from Byrne who popped up again in the movement to take and give vital pass to Dardis (I think) to Fitzgerald to score. That was the only quick ball we got from the pack all night. Second half was dominated by Ireland holding territory and possession. Multiple attacks launched by backs feeding off slow enough ball but still creating half-chances but Scots scramble defence were alert to most of the moves tried (video analysis well done obviously). Josh Murphy outstanding in aggression/carries/tackles and generally 'being the dog'. Mc Buerney did very well in carries and O'connor good also. Dowe is a big unit with a lot of ability but tends to come in and out of it a lot. Overall there is has been a serious fall-off in 'bite' and consistency of effort in general from a number of the forwards over the past couple of games. Moloney badly missed as he brings a big bit of the 'dog', like Murphy to this pack. Cruel blow to have Loughman and Mc Call be withdrawn with a stomach bug just before kick-off. The final try for Scots was completely against run of play and yet another maul off a lineout to make it 3 on the night. At that time we were down to 13 men for last 8 minutes due to o'Connor in the bin, Dwan going off injured and Ireland not being allowed to re-sub due to having used all of our subs. Going on first 3 games we were very good. Coaches changed a lot in the pack for the Welsh game. The defeat there had to have an affect on confidence. This seemed to have got carried into the Scots game. This team is not a write-off and remember last year only 2 wins in 6 nations and yet we rose to a semi in JWC! There is a lot of talent in this team and the coaches have to work harder to make it come together. An excellent backline but the pack has huge potential too if it can just get organised on the basics a whole lot better. That is what the focus of the coaches should be over the next few weeks.

kingofthekong

Thank you , I think molony was a huge loss , they've plenty of time to sort things out before the jwc, if murphy could put on some size he has huge potential

The Lost Sheep

Frazer McMullen Quarter finals this weekend and a full weekend of AIL so you would expect a good number of under 20s to play some part of some of these games
Under 20 all Ireland draw is below. Any thoughts on potential winners. Terenure probably favourites along with Cork Con as they both won their leagues
Cork Con v UCD
Trinity v NUIG Corinthians
Terenure v Buccaneers
Young Munster v Lansdowne

ArmchairQB

Cork Con are decent but would expect The winner to be either Terenure or Trinity but Terenure would be big favourites going into the tournament

The Lost Sheep

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Cork Con are decent but would expect The winner to be either Terenure or Trinity but Terenure would be big favourites going into the tournament

Depends on how many they lose for the all Irelands with different age grade for this compared to JP Fanagan and though Terenure were very strong in Leinster Con are the holders and have a good number of that squad back...

The Lost Sheep

Canada and US u20s playing off for place in World Trophy which takes place in Portugal in May.
Paddy Finlay starts at hooker while Dan Joyce and Dylan Horgan are the starting halfbacks for Canada. Finlay and Joyce play with Trinity and Horgan UCC

Oisin Brady and Ian Kinsley, both Trinity, are in the American Squad.

Canada won first leg 24-23 so all up for grabs for place in JWT

funtime93

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Canada and US u20s playing off for place in World Trophy which takes place in Portugal in May.
Paddy Finlay starts at hooker while Dan Joyce and Dylan Horgan are the starting halfbacks for Canada. Finlay and Joyce play with Trinity and Horgan UCC

Oisin Brady and Ian Kinsley, both Trinity, are in the American Squad.

Canada won first leg 24-23 so all up for grabs for place in JWT

How are they eligible?

The Lost Sheep

funtime93 wrote: »

How are they eligible?

Parents/Grandparents I assume. Havent a notion.

All four Fraser McMullan Cup quarter finals won by the Leinster teams. UCD beat Cork Con in Temple Hill 17-15, Trinity beat NUIG-Corinthians 48-5, Terenure beat Buccaneers 32-10 and Lansdowne beat Young Munster 20-13

TJ987

Canada U20 had a totally comprehensive win over the USA last night winning 41-6 and 65-29 on aggregate over the 2 game series to represent North America in the JWC trophy in Portugal this May. Very strong games from Joyce and Finlay - both from Trinity, and Horgan from UCC

leinster blue boys

could be worth selectors looking at callum sheedy a 19 year old with Bristol ,played u19 7s for Ireland, was selected for wales u20s this 6 nations but withdrew ,hopefully to keep his chances of irish honours open

The Lost Sheep

leinster blue boys wrote: »

could be worth selectors looking at callum sheedy a 19 year old with Bristol, played u19 7s for Ireland, was selected for wales u20s this 6 nations but withdrew, hopefully to keep his chances of irish honours open

Hard to say they will look at him. He is an excellent player as he showed when playing with the Exiles at under 18clubs and 19s level but will Ireland look at him with Ross Byrne at 10 and several other 10 options?

bradders90

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Hard to say they will look at him. He is an excellent player as he showed when playing with the Exiles at under 18clubs and 19s level but will Ireland look at him with Ross Byrne at 10 and several other 10 options?

they should is will add a different dynamic, much more of a running 9/10 (can play both) who has quick distribution and will make breaks. Maybe not start but adds more than Carberry.
If not Sheedy, then i do not get why selectors are not looking at O'Hagan, that guy is a genuine talent.

The Lost Sheep

bradders90 wrote: »

they should is will add a different dynamic, much more of a running 9/10 (can play both) who has quick distribution and will make breaks. Maybe not start but adds more than Carberry.
If not Sheedy, then i do not get why selectors are not looking at O'Hagan, that guy is a genuine talent.

Very unlikely to be added and he has currently just moved on loan to a national league 1 side.
Carolan I assume, and other coaches, don't perhaps rate O Hagan as highly as others... Carolan didn't add him to Connacht academy when he was playing fairly well in UBL with Corinthians....
Sheedy is very good but he never played Irish u18 Clubs or u19. Always behind likes of Byrne, Carberry etc

RobbieRuns

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Very unlikely to be added and he has currently just moved on loan to a national league 1 side.
Carolan I assume, and other coaches, don't perhaps rate O Hagan as highly as others... Carolan didn't add him to Connacht academy when he was playing fairly well in UBL with Corinthians....
Sheedy is very good but he never played Irish u18 Clubs or u19. Always behind likes of Byrne, Carberry etc

Never saw Sheedy play any underage rugby for Ireland so could not comment on his ability, he was in the Wales squad, so I would only assume that he was not forced to go there, he has that option and good luck to him. I would agree with Bradders in regards to O'Hagan, he played U18 Clubs for two years and U19 last year. As I understand it he turned England down at U18 as he had been picked for Ireland and that was his first choice. He came here to live, study and to try to play for Ireland and whatever happened it appears obvious that Carolan does not fancy him, which I think is a shame. His performances for Connacht 20's and Corinthians last year still have him in my mind as one of the most talented young players that I have seen play, he was just electric and his scoring stats showed this and I know that Corinthians still wish that he was playing there. They could sure have done with him this season !

It will be interesting to see how he progresses over the next few years, but the kind of talent he has does not just disappear.

Hagz

Sean O'Hagan has been injured for a while now. He tore his hamstring back in early December and then further problems has kept him out up till now. AFAIA he's only just finished his rehab. It's still very possible that he'll play in the JWC.

Also, is there any confirmation that Connacht let him go? It would seem far more likely given his family ties with Ulster that he opted to go north when the opportunity presented itself.

its_phil

Hagz wrote: »

Sean O'Hagan has been injured for a while now. He tore his hamstring back in early December and then further problems has kept him out up till now. AFAIA he's only just finished his rehab. It's still very possible that he'll play in the JWC.

Also, is there any confirmation that Connacht let him go? It would seem far more likely given his family ties with Ulster that he opted to go north when the opportunity presented itself.

Was let go by Carolan.

bradders90

its_phil wrote: »

Was let go by Carolan.

Explain's a lot. cheers

RobbieRuns

its_phil wrote: »

Was let go by Carolan.

Don't think that was the case at all from what I was told. Ulster came in and offered a full academy deal and he had a choice as Connacht had not signed him on a contract. The choice might have been sub academy in Galway or full academy in Belfast? In fairness Carty and Ronaldson had just signed deals and Nikora was also kept on for another year so there was three ahead of him. They also were bringing in Shane O'Leary and Conor McKeon from Leinster, so that is five. Spoilt for choice at fly halves in Connacht.

The Lost Sheep

RobbieRuns wrote: »

Never saw Sheedy play any underage rugby for Ireland so could not comment on his ability, he was in the Wales squad, so I would only assume that he was not forced to go there, he has that option and good luck to him. I would agree with Bradders in regards to O'Hagan, he played U18 Clubs for two years and U19 last year. As I understand it he turned England down at U18 as he had been picked for Ireland and that was his first choice. He came here to live, study and to try to play for Ireland and whatever happened it appears obvious that Carolan does not fancy him, which I think is a shame. His performances for Connacht 20's and Corinthians last year still have him in my mind as one of the most talented young players that I have seen play, he was just electric and his scoring stats showed this and I know that Corinthians still wish that he was playing there. They could sure have done with him this season!

It will be interesting to see how he progresses over the next few years, but the kind of talent he has does not just disappear.

Sheedy never was picked for Ireland at age grade. Played with exiles but not selected for Irish u18 clubs or Ireland u19. O Hagan did well last year in UBL but you are completely overhyping his performances...

Hagz wrote: »

Also, is there any confirmation that Connacht let him go? It would seem far more likely given his family ties with Ulster that he opted to go north when the opportunity presented itself.

Connacht didn't let him go. He wasn't offered a full academy place so went to Ulster where he was offered an academy spot

RobbieRuns wrote: »

Don't think that was the case at all from what I was told. Ulster came in and offered a full academy deal and he had a choice as Connacht had not signed him on a contract. The choice might have been sub academy in Galway or full academy in Belfast? In fairness Carty and Ronaldson had just signed deals and Nikora was also kept on for another year so there was three ahead of him. They also were bringing in Shane O'Leary and Conor McKeon from Leinster, so that is five. Spoilt for choice at fly halves in Connacht.

SOL wasn't signed as a 10. Has played there on occasion for As but was signed as a 12/13 and will only play 10 if others unavailable....

RobbieRuns

ok .....four and a half tens in Connacht. Still well covered.

Hagz

Video highlights of u19 win over France. Check out the unreal offload by Max Deegan.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2liyxk_france-irlande-19-ans-le-resume_sport?start=231

kingofthekong

Kieran Reid would be proud of that offload , legendary

Tox56

Hagz wrote: »

Video highlights of u19 win over France. Check out the unreal offload by Max Deegan.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2liyxk_france-irlande-19-ans-le-resume_sport?start=231

Wow. Had one out the back in a Leinster game too

kingofthekong

Quite a lot of the u20s involved in the connacht munster A game , frank Ryan , Cian romaine , conan o'donnell , Steven mcveigh , gaffney

specttator

Wins for Lansdowne and Trinity in today's semi finals of Frazer McMullen.

The Lost Sheep

specttator wrote: »

Wins for Lansdowne and Trinity in today's semi finals of Frazer McMullen.

Terenure would have lost huge number of their players for the all Irelands with the different age grades...

Final next weekend in Anglesea Road

ArmchairQB

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Terenure would have lost huge number of their players for the all Irelands with the different age grades...

Final next weekend in Anglesea Road

As would all other Leinster teams with the exception of Trinity whom I think loose very few of their JP Fanagan team.

2 good away wins by both teams with trinity favourites for the title

The Lost Sheep

ArmchairQB wrote: »

As would all other Leinster teams with the exception of Trinity whom I think lose very few of their JP Fanagan team.

2 good away wins by both teams with trinity favourites for the title

Not all Leinster sides would have lost that many. Trinity I would guess are favourites...

Stainalert

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Not all Leinster sides would have lost that many. Trinity I would guess are favourites...

Surprised that UCD haven't done better given the amount of Irish U'20s they have at their disposal. Good performance from all the Leinster teams given they will have had to change their teams a lot more than Munster or Connacht teams. Shame there is no Ulster representation.

The Lost Sheep

Stainalert wrote: »

Surprised that UCD haven't done better given the amount of Irish U'20s they have at their disposal. Good performance from all the Leinster teams given they will have had to change their teams a lot more than Munster or Connacht teams. Shame there is no Ulster representation.

Some wont have had to change too much and theyd generally have enough strength in depth to cope with losing the few 94s that would be involved.
There hasn't been Ulster teams playing at this level for years. Don't see any Ulster teams competing in this any time soon

TJ987

Does anyone know if the Fraser McMullen final will be streamed live??

The Lost Sheep

TJ987 wrote: »

Does anyone know if the Fraser McMullen final will be streamed live??

No it wont but there may be highlights up on irish website next week

TJ987

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

No it wont but there may be highlights up on irish website next week

Thanks a mill.

bilston

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Some wont have had to change too much and theyd generally have enough strength in depth to cope with losing the few 94s that would be involved.
There hasn't been Ulster teams playing at this level for years. Don't see any Ulster teams competing in this any time soon

I'd have thought Queens would have been well able to put forward a decent U20s team considering 5 or 6 of this years Irish U20s play for them.