Ireland U20 2015 6 nations and junior world cup

English Lurker

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Gonna put a bet down on paddy power for 6/1 England and 7/1 France outright, what are my chances here? I know SA and NZ as per usual are the teams to beat but France looked pretty strong in the group stages and can never rule out an English team at this level.

6/1 for England looks bad value. This team has fumbled a lot of games at this level as is and is now missing some crucial players in Townsend, Marchant and Mallinder. Our flankers in particular aren't up to much. I don't think any England fan I know is expecting much.

Without having seen the odds, I think SA sound the team of choice this year. NZ fans haven't sounded that confident either when I've spoke to them. France at 7/1 sounds worth a flutter there.

bradders90

English Lurker wrote: »

6/1 for England looks bad value. This team has fumbled a lot of games at this level as is and is now missing some crucial players in Townsend, Marchant and Mallinder. Our flankers in particular aren't up to much. I don't think any England fan I know is expecting much.

Without having seen the odds, I think SA sound the team of choice this year. NZ fans haven't sounded that confident either when I've spoke to them. France at 7/1 sounds worth a flutter there.

Mallinder is overage.

The Lost Sheep

bradders90 wrote: »

Mallinder is overage.

He isn't and is underage for next year as well....

The Lost Sheep

Team to play Wales in 5-8th playoff tomorrow

15. Ciaran Gaffney (Galwegians/Connacht)
14. Stephen Fitzgerald (Shannon/Munster)
13. Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster)
12. Sam Arnold (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
11. Jacob Stockdale (Queen's University Belfast/Ulster)
10. Joey Carbery (UCD/Leinster)
9. Charlie Rock (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
1. Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster)
2. Sean McNulty (UCD/Leinster)
3. Oisin Heffernan (Terenure College/Leinster)
4. David O'Connor (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
5. Alex Thompson (Queen's University Belfast/Ulster)
6. Josh Murphy (UCD/Leinster) (capt)
7. Conor Oliver (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
8. Nick Timoney (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Replacements:
16. Adam McBurney (Ballymena/Ulster)
17. Liam O'Connor (Cork Constitution/Munster)
18. Conan O'Donnell (Sligo/NUIG/Connacht)
19. Lorcan Dow (Queen's University Belfast/Ulster)
20. Rory Moloney (Buccaneers/Connacht)
21. Tomás Quinlan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
22. Fergal Cleary (Lansdowne/Leinster)
23. Jack Owens (Queen's University Belfast/Ulster)

Bridge93

What does Conan O Donnell have to do to get a game? Or what does Heffernan have to do to be dropped even for one match?

total former

Has there been any indication of how serious McCarthy's injury is?

wp_rathead

Bridge93 wrote: »

What does Conan O Donnell have to do to get a game? Or what does Heffernan have to do to be dropped even for one match?

I genuinely don't understand it
Our scrum is much more competitive when he comes on

Wang King

Bridge93 wrote: »

What does Conan O Donnell have to do to get a game? Or what does Heffernan have to do to be dropped even for one match?

He's definitely looking the better player, so either the coaching staff have concerns about him lasting 60+ minutes, or they are going with familiarity within the forwards

kingofthekong

Heffernan over O'Donnell makes me seriously worried about Carolans ability to coach these lads if he can't see how much better O'donnell is in every single aspect of the game than Heffernan

RobbieRuns

Who is sub 9? I thought that Jack Cullen called up for that role.

The Lost Sheep

kingofthekong wrote: »

Heffernan over O'Donnell makes me seriously worried about Carolans ability to coach these lads if he can't see how much better O'donnell is in every single aspect of the game than Heffernan

I don't this can cast any doubts over Carolans coaching ability. John Fogarty is forward/scrum coach I think so they presumably want something from Heffernan.

RobbieRuns wrote: »

Who is sub 9? I thought that Jack Cullen called up for that role.

Carberry could be covering 9. He's only other who's actually played 9 quite a bit... Cullen mightn't have been out to tournament in time/ready to play??? Only announced Cullen travelling over on Friday. Mightnt have been over in Italy until yesterday?? So not ready to play yet...

ArmchairQB

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I don't this can cast any doubts over Carolans coaching ability. John Fogarty is forward/scrum coach I think so they presumably want something from Heffernan.

Carberry could be covering 9. He's only other who's actually played 9 quite a bit... Cullen mightn't have been out to tournament in time/ready to play??? Only announced Cullen travelling over on Friday. Mightnt have been over in Italy until yesterday?? So not ready to play yet...

Calls Fogarty's ability into question as Heffernan is clearly 2nd best of the two and the more he plays the more he proves that. Potentially 3/4 under 20s around better than Heffernan. Bodes well for Leinster:eek: Porter on the other hand has grasped his oppurtunity with both hands and impressed as has O'Donnell when given the oppurtunity. As it is Heffernan's 2nd year and along with some other lads returning for their 2nd year their performances aside from one or two exceptions have been dissapointing & the coaches must bear a large portion of the responsibility for those performances. I had genuinely been excited by this years prospects but I am fairly deflated by our performances as we have seem to have gone back to "gallant efforts" & "Passionate defeats" which is something I had hoped we had moved away from and become regular contenders as has happened with the senior side where you can see the impact of great coaching and man management with the players

bilston

What time is today's game and is it on BT/ESPN/TG4?

ArmchairQB

bilston wrote: »

What time is today's game and is it on BT/ESPN/TG4?

Believe it is on at 7.30pm Irish Time but not being covered anywhere I can find, TG4 showing semi finals. The Welsh channel on Sky Channel 134 may show it but not sure

The Lost Sheep

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Calls Fogarty's ability into question as Heffernan is clearly 2nd best of the two and the more he plays the more he proves that. Potentially 3/4 under 20s around better than Heffernan. Bodes well for Leinster:eek: Porter on the other hand has grasped his oppurtunity with both hands and impressed as has O'Donnell when given the oppurtunity. As it is Heffernan's 2nd year and along with some other lads returning for their 2nd year their performances aside from one or two exceptions have been dissapointing & the coaches must bear a large portion of the responsibility for those performances. I had genuinely been excited by this years prospects but I am fairly deflated by our performances as we have seem to have gone back to "gallant efforts" & "Passionate defeats" which is something I had hoped we had moved away from and become regular contenders as has happened with the senior side where you can see the impact of great coaching and man management with the players

I think Fogartys work in academy and at age grade provincial level has to be regarded highly...
I don't think there is anywhere near 3/4 better than Heffernan. Who are all those guys who are supposedly better?

bilston wrote: »

What time is today's game and is it on BT/ESPN/TG4?

The game is on red button on BT

wadacrack

Red Button on BT.. where did u see that?

ArmchairQB

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I think Fogartys work in academy and at age grade provincial level has to be regarded highly...
I don't think there is anywhere near 3/4 better than Heffernan. Who are all those guys who are supposedly better?
The game is on red button on BT

Stand by my original comments and Heffernan is way off has had plenty of chances and not delivered so coaches need to respond and look at other alternatives that are out there. Good thing about Ruddock was that he looked outside the box and sometimes outside of the sub academies and got a couple of decent players but the new set up hasn't broadened their horizons unfortunately

kingofthekong

Anyone got a stream for the game?

Hagz

Bit of sour grapes from the NZ commentator. If there's a flag out from the TJ, the ref should absolutely go back to it at the end of play. No problem for me.

The Lost Sheep

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Stand by my original comments and Heffernan is way off has had plenty of chances and not delivered so coaches need to respond and look at other alternatives that are out there. Good thing about Ruddock was that he looked outside the box and sometimes outside of the sub academies and got a couple of decent players but the new set up hasn't broadened their horizons unfortunately

Heffernan isn't way off. Who are all these alternatives.
I don't think you can say Carolan et al haven't utilised their resources well enough as there isn't loads of guys who should have been picked...

Hagz

Swiwi. wrote: »

I think the commentator is Tongan, no? No problem going back but that was a pretty soft high tackle, correct by the letter of the law I suppose.

He represented Tonga but he lives in New Zealand and grew up there.

FrannoFan

french 6 getting injured has wrecked them. replacement numbe 20 missed 8 for 1 try and didn't pick up winger on inside line for third try.

FrannoFan

gets worse and worse for french 20 fumbled the ball a load of times and got stripped for the kick through for 5th try

Ionae the NZ 8 a serious player.

RedemptionZ

FrannoFan wrote: »

gets worse and worse for french 20 fumbled the ball a load of times and got stripped for the kick through for 5th try

Ionae the NZ 8 a serious player.

Great player, his family have quite a good rugby legacy. Have to say though I don't like that he played for the Samoa U-20s already.

Blackheath

What channel is tonight match on?

Swiwi.

FrannoFan wrote: »

gets worse and worse for french 20 fumbled the ball a load of times and got stripped for the kick through for 5th try

Ionae the NZ 8 a serious player.

The NZ maul defence is not particulary good, rubbish even. And the scrum is solid at best. The rest of it is very good though. NZ's best players are unsurprisingly all playing Super Rugby: Li, Black, Ioane, Lienert-Brown, Gibson.

The ref has generally been very good, but the high tackle decisions were intriguing: a good try ruled out for a borderline high tackle. Then the 2nd one was definitely a high tackle, for which he ruled a penalty. At the next break of play he asked for a TMO review, presumably to check no yellow card required. TMO says penalty only, so he awards another penalty. That film "Double Jeopardy" sprang to mind. And the 3rd high tackle was once again borderline, for which he gave a formal warning.

France were pretty disorganised, I thought the Irish U20s looked a better side.

If he remains injury free, there is no doubt Ioane will be in the mix for the Senior Men's side in 2016, his figures for a horrible Blues side have been very good.

Hagz

Doesn't look like the game is going to be on tv

Swan Curry

The many Irish-speakers of South Africa must be glad TG4 are showing the England-SA match

Blackheath

Wales are 5-0 up

its_phil

Who at World Rugby thought this would be a good idea?!

Blackheath

Not a good start now 12-0 to Wales

RobbieRuns

19-0 Wales

Blackheath

It now 19-0 to Wales, Carbery has also missed a pen

Bridge93

So much for the dream team. Shambles.

Blackheath

Wales are down to 14 for 10 mins

Blackheath

Another pen for Wales now 22-0

ArmchairQB

Still the 1st half😱

Blackheath

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Still the 1st half��

Unfortunately yes, I wonder has a lack of rotation in the front row is catching up on them

The Lost Sheep

Swan Curry wrote: »

The many Irish-speakers of South Africa must be glad TG4 are showing the England-SA match

Its deal TG4 signed with World Rugby...

Bridge93 wrote: »

So much for the dream team. Shambles.

Too much expectation on this side... "dream team".. What would you have done different? They were missing probably their most important player in Byrne.

England winning 16-6 v South Africa nearly half time. Horrible game tbh..

Buer

This was always going to be a strong possibility. Haven't done a count but I think it's 9 players that have started every single game for Ireland. That's pathetic squad management in a tournament that is played in heat with 4 games in 12 days. Utter madness.

On another note, just flicked on the SA vs England game and a England were denied a pretty legitimate try to my eye by the TMO. The TMO had a very strong South African accent. Might have been Namibian or Zimbabwean but certainly sounded like he was from SA. Surely they wouldn't be so silly to have a TMO from one of the nations competing?

Former Coach

Is there a link? Please PM if there is.

marc96

Buer wrote: »

This was always going to be a strong possibility. Haven't done a count but I think it's 9 players that have started every single game for Ireland. That's pathetic squad management in a tournament that is played in heat with 4 games in 12 days. Utter madness.

On another note, just flicked on the SA vs England game and a England were denied a pretty legitimate try to my eye by the TMO. The TMO had a very strong South African accent. Might have been Namibian or Zimbabwean but certainly sounded like he was from SA. Surely they wouldn't be so silly to have a TMO from one of the nations competing?

If u talking about the "try" where it was held up u seriously need to go to spec savers if u thought that was a try?

matthew8

Buer wrote: »

This was always going to be a strong possibility. Haven't done a count but I think it's 9 players that have started every single game for Ireland. That's pathetic squad management in a tournament that is played in heat with 4 games in 12 days. Utter madness.

On another note, just flicked on the SA vs England game and a England were denied a pretty legitimate try to my eye by the TMO. The TMO had a very strong South African accent. Might have been Namibian or Zimbabwean but certainly sounded like he was from SA. Surely they wouldn't be so silly to have a TMO from one of the nations competing?

Yeah, he's Shaun Veldsman, a South African. Same situation in Super Rugby, a South African will referee the upcoming Stormers Brumbies match. Didn't see a grounding myself though.

Former Coach

marc96 wrote: »

If u talking about the "try" where it was held up u seriously need to go to spec savers if u thought that was a try?

Agreed- definitely not a try.

ArmchairQB

I do remember having to do without Paddy Jackson one year, Byrne is a loss but again Coaches need to stand up and be counted 3 tries from such a talented back line and all against Scotland is not a great return

Blackheath

A better start to the 2nd half a try for Ireland

Blackheath

Gaffney with the try and Carbery converted

Buer

marc96 wrote: »

If u talking about the "try" where it was held up u seriously need to go to spec savers if u thought that was a try?

Calm yourself. I'm watching on a feed and it looked like it brushed off the deck on it. No problem if it wasn't more querying how bizarre it is that there's a South African official in a massive game.

marc96

Buer wrote: »

Calm yourself. I'm watching on a feed and it looked like it brushed off the deck on it. No problem if it wasn't more querying how bizarre it is that there's a South African official in a massive game.

Well then don't say "pretty legitimate" try

The Lost Sheep

Buer wrote: »

This was always going to be a strong possibility. Haven't done a count but I think it's 9 players that have started every single game for Ireland. That's pathetic squad management in a tournament that is played in heat with 4 games in 12 days. Utter madness.

On another note, just flicked on the SA vs England game and a England were denied a pretty legitimate try to my eye by the TMO. The TMO had a very strong South African accent. Might have been Namibian or Zimbabwean but certainly sounded like he was from SA. Surely they wouldn't be so silly to have a TMO from one of the nations competing?

The irish team barely won opening games and had strongest teams out. Would they have been better with weaker sides paying.
The number of officials being used in this tournament is fairly limited. TMO could have been South African but don't see that as too much of an issue...

ArmchairQB wrote: »

I do remember having to do without Paddy Jackson one year, Byrne is a loss but again Coaches need to stand up and be counted 3 tries from such a talented back line and all against Scotland is not a great return

All the blame cant simply be put on the coaches. Yes the side 3 years ago did have to do with Paddy Jackson but they had a guy in JJ to step up who had already played 20s a year up and was there somebody like that for us this year? No. It was quite different.