Ireland U20 2015 6 nations and junior world cup

ArmchairQB

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Injury is an issue though, not many come straight out of school with enough size to play Seniors at a competitive level. There are exceptions obviously, like Peter Robb, who I believe is playing senior for Belvo this year despite being eligible for 20s.

I think Robb is in his 3rd year out of school this year and overage for 20's

ArmchairQB

Yeah policy in UCD not to allow 1st years play AIL

Hagz

the cut off for 20's in the club game is different to the cut off for the rep sides isn't it?

Stainalert

Hagz wrote: »

the cut off for 20's in the club game is different to the cut off for the rep sides isn't it?

In Leinster it is Munster date is the same

ArmchairQB

kingofthekong wrote: »

think nicholas timoney will be involved in some capacity depending on form he could even start imo , havent seen any of conor o'brien anyone reckon he has a chance?

Doubt O'Brien will play AIL in Tarf this year as behind one or two new recruits and Clontarf have to beat Greystones on Sunday in 20's playoff if he is to have any chance of impressing and playing in Under 20 premier league if not he will play 2nd division of 20's which wouldn't stand him well for selection.

rugby addict

Is Denis Coulson overage?

The Lost Sheep

rugby addict wrote: »

Is Denis Coulson overage?

Yes he is overage. Born in 94 so overage for under 20s

ArmchairQB

Naas conceded to Blackrock so Rock go into Premier 1 for under 20's
Winners of Clontarf v Greystones and Barnhall v Mary's will also join other 6 teams

The Lost Sheep

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Naas conceded to Blackrock so Rock go into Premier 1 for under 20's
Winners of Clontarf v Greystones and Barnhall v Mary's will also join other 6 teams

Clontarf(beat Greystones 43-7) and Barnhall(beat Marys 13-10)
So Premier 1 will be
Lansdowne, Belvedere, Trinity, UCD, Blackrock, Clontarf, Barnhall, Greystones

ArmchairQB

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Clontarf(beat Greystones 43-7) and Barnhall(beat Marys 13-10)
So Premier 1 will be
Lansdowne, Belvedere, Trinity, UCD, Blackrock, Clontarf, Barnhall, Greystones

Ternure also prem 1 Greystones will be prem 2
Big win for Tarf

stellenbosch

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Ternure also prem 1 Greystones will be prem 2
Big win for Tarf

Great win for Barnhall-were Timoney/O'Connor/Oliver/Kearns-the Rock recruits-playing?

Lansdowne not as strong this year-both Universities have recruited very well-Trinity hammered Belvo by 50 on friday night and Lansdowne by 40 the previous week and also won the Castle Trophy in Rock last weekend..beating Terenure and UCC and beating Rock by 40 in a 30 minute final.

On paper UCD will be strongest followed closely by Trinity and Nure..

Should be some great games!

ArmchairQB

Clontarf bet Ternure last week as well and Lansdowne bet Cork Con at the week end

MagicF

stellenbosch wrote: »

Great win for Barnhall-were Timoney/O'Connor/Oliver/Kearns-the Rock recruits-playing?

Timoney played for the senior and U20 sides, and scored a try for the u20s. Didn't see either match.

ArmchairQB

MagicF wrote: »

Timoney played for the senior and U20 sides, and scored a try for the u20s. Didn't see either match.

Think they all played and were as stated before sold a pup! Travelling across Dublin to play Prem 2 while club on their doorstep plays Prem 1 (very strange) Some very good lads there that won't feature in AIL this year never mind top tier of 20's a few lads scratching their heads this morning I would say. Hopefully they haven't messed up their chances of Irish 20's

Clontarf back in top league after a few sparse years which is good to see, Greystones will be dissapointed especially as they made the All Ireland last year and Barnhalls NUIM link paying off for them and expect them to get stronger every year. UCD and Trinity will be the ones to beat as they have huge numbers and great quality. Will be an interesting year!

the baby bull elephant

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Think they all played and were as stated before sold a pup! Travelling across Dublin to play Prem 2 while club on their doorstep plays Prem 1 (very strange) Some very good lads there that won't feature in AIL this year never mind top tier of 20's a few lads scratching their heads this morning I would say. Hopefully they haven't messed up their chances of Irish 20's

Clontarf back in top league after a few sparse years which is good to see, Greystones will be dissapointed especially as they made the All Ireland last year and Barnhalls NUIM link paying off for them and expect them to get stronger every year. UCD and Trinity will be the ones to beat as they have huge numbers and great quality. Will be an interesting year!

Only Timoney and Kearns played. Mary's also lost three players to injury in the first five minutes.

The Lost Sheep

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Think they all played and were as stated before sold a pup! Travelling across Dublin to play Prem 2 while club on their doorstep plays Prem 1 (very strange) Some very good lads there that won't feature in AIL this year never mind top tier of 20's a few lads scratching their heads this morning I would say. Hopefully they haven't messed up their chances of Irish 20's

Clontarf back in top league after a few sparse years which is good to see, Greystones will be dissapointed especially as they made the All Ireland last year and Barnhalls NUIM link paying off for them and expect them to get stronger every year. UCD and Trinity will be the ones to beat as they have huge numbers and great quality. Will be an interesting year!

Wouldn't say they were "sold a pup". Not strange at all. Shouldn't mess up their chances of national representation if good enough
Greystones made all Ireland last year winning weaker of two premier divisions last season.
UCD/Trinity should be strongest. Trinity already winners of Castle Trophy...

Board_man

Leinster 'Tier 1' Sub Academy squad:

:Nick Timoney, Jeremy Loughman, Fergal Cleary, Conor O'Brien, Sean Mcnulty, Jack Power, David O'Connor, Neil Reilly, Oisin Heffernan, Andrew Porter.

Very interesting to see O'Brien,Mcnulty and Reilly in there. Mcnulty played inter pros for Munster 20s, Reilly is U19 and subbed for the inter pros behind Josh Murphy, have never seen O'Brien play.

Hagz

Interesting to see some of the names that aren't there. No Cian O'Donoghue, Conor Oliver or Joshua Murphy.

ArmchairQB

Board_man wrote: »

Leinster 'Tier 1' Sub Academy squad:

:Nick Timoney, Jeremy Loughman, Fergal Cleary, Conor O'Brien, Sean Mcnulty, Jack Power, David O'Connor, Neil Reilly, Oisin Heffernan, Andrew Porter.

Very interesting to see O'Brien,Mcnulty and Reilly in there. Mcnulty played inter pros for Munster 20s, Reilly is U19 and subbed for the inter pros behind Josh Murphy, have never seen O'Brien play.

Big jump of fate being shown in former youth players Reilly an 8 and O'Brien the 13 neither were very impressive in inter pros but are seemingly highly rated within Leinster. 1 no 6', 2 no. 8's, 2 tight heads, a loose head,a hooker,a 12 , a 13 and a 15 best of luck to them all

wise7

Hagz wrote: »

Interesting to see some of the names that aren't there. No Cian O'Donoghue, Conor Oliver or Joshua Murphy.

Doesn't make a lot of sense. These 3 have been hugely consistent. Murphy gives great options at second row and 6 and can only get bigger & better. Has been the hard core of the graft in the leinster 20's pack this year and comes off the back of a few very credible appearances in JWC in June plus a good stint for UCD and Leinster 20's last season.

sbtrkter90

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Big jump of fate being shown in former youth players Reilly an 8 and O'Brien the 13 neither were very impressive in inter pros but are seemingly highly rated within Leinster. 1 no 6', 2 no. 8's, 2 tight heads, a loose head,a hooker,a 12 , a 13 and a 15 best of luck to them all

The step up from youths to 20's is fairly big, Dooley, Daly, Byrne and Furlong all played under-19 interpros and then emerged at different stages after that once they joined the sub-academy.

They transition for a prop is a lot easier than for a back, O'Brien has serious potential. Reilly its harder to know about but now that they are both focusing soley on rugby it will be interesting to see how they develop.

Interesting to see you say O'Connor is a 6, he will have to be too small for lock. While Timoney could easily shift to 7 and Reilly could also be at 7 down the line too.

sbtrkter90

wise7 wrote: »

Doesn't make a lot of sense. These 3 have been hugely consistent. Murphy gives great options at second row and 6 and can only get bigger & better. Has been the hard core of the graft in the leinster 20's pack this year and comes off the back of a few very credible appearances in JWC in June plus a good stint for UCD and Leinster 20's last season.

Murphy's frame might prevent him from getting much bigger.

RedemptionZ

sbtrkter90 wrote: »

Murphy's frame might prevent him from getting much bigger.

Care to elaborate on this? Don't see how his frame(which at worst is average and imo is above average) could stop him from bulking up.

sbtrkter90

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Care to elaborate on this? Don't see how his frame(which at worst is average and imo is above average) could stop him from bulking up.

just think his frame for a forward isn't ideal(narrow shoulders and not much weight in his lower half) and he will struggle to be powerful enough.. I could be wrong and he might eventually bulk up enough but plenty of lads struggle to keep their athleticism getting up to the required size(110kg) and often their bodies don't stand up..

plus he isn't in the sub-academy so he looks like he is on the outside looking in regarding an academy place.. unless something drastic happens.

RedemptionZ

sbtrkter90 wrote: »

just think his frame for a forward isn't ideal(narrow shoulders and not much weight in his lower half) and he will struggle to be powerful enough.. I could be wrong and he might eventually bulk up enough but plenty of lads struggle to keep their athleticism getting up to the required size(110kg) and often their bodies don't stand up..

plus he isn't in the sub-academy so he looks like he is on the outside looking in regarding an academy place.. unless something drastic happens.

Ah ok fair enough, decent enough reasoning behind that, might be right there actually. Never noticed the narrow shoulders but I'll look out for it. He's a real terrior though and has enough height to make 110 kgs I think. If he were two or three inches taller would probably be a different story.

But yes unlikely to make it in the most competitive position in Leinster and not tall enough to be a primary second row, will probably have to ply his trade elsewhere if he wants to make it pro.

sbtrkter90

I could be wrong and i'm very reticent to be so negative on a lad but it's a concern.. if he was two or three inches taller he'd probably already be in the academy.. still he could get a last growth spurt, Molony and Beirne did when they were around the same age getting them into the 197-198cm range..

Murphy, O'Connor and Dwan all suffer the same problem regarding height, if any of them were really 6'6 they'd be in the academy more than likely.. but all are stuck nearer to 195/196cm and for Leinster lately that's just not been tall enough

wise7

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Ah ok fair enough, decent enough reasoning behind that, might be right there actually. Never noticed the narrow shoulders but I'll look out for it. He's a real terrior though and has enough height to make 110 kgs I think. If he were two or three inches taller would probably be a different story.

But yes unlikely to make it in the most competitive position in Leinster and not tall enough to be a primary second row, will probably have to ply his trade elsewhere if he wants to make it pro.

His positives are big. Great lineout operator and tough as nails in the thick of everything. carries very strongly too. Hate to think he will lose out because his body shape doesn't conform to the 'perfect model'. There is a lot to say about core strength and loads of bottle which he seems to have which is great for a 6 and if he does put on more mass over a couple of years the 2nd row is still possible.

sbtrkter90

wise7 wrote: »

His positives are big. Great lineout operator and tough as nails in the thick of everything. carries very strongly too. Hate to think he will lose out because his body shape doesn't conform to the 'perfect model'. There is a lot to say about core strength and loads of bottle which he seems to have which is great for a 6 and if he does put on more mass over a couple of years the 2nd row is still possible.

reality forward play is about size and power now than anything else.. he has great height at around 6'5.. its a big year for him, he needs to lock down the number 6 spot for Ireland and then impress.. easily could get rewarded with an academy spot after that..

Leinster's academy class next year is pretty predictable:
3 props, 1 hooker, 1 lock, 2 backrow, 2/3 backs.

Hagz

sbtrkter90 wrote: »

Leinster's academy class next year is pretty predictable:
3 props, 1 hooker, 1 lock, 2 backrow, 2/3 backs.

That would make for a minimum of 9 recruits. Have Leinster ever taken in 9 players?

I would have thought 2 props, not 3. Loughman and Heffernan. Do you think Porter will be taken in as well? I would have thought it would be better to leave him another year.

sbtrkter90

Hagz wrote: »

That would make for a minimum of 9 recruits. Have Leinster ever taken in 9 players?

I would have thought 2 props, not 3. Loughman and Heffernan. Do you think Porter will be taken in as well? I would have thought it would be better to leave him another year.

there is 8 graduating(6 forwards + 2 backs) assuming no repeats or early grads.

Porter could be delayed another year but I don't think he will because of his ability, actually I think he could really emerge and start for the 20's during the 6 nations. I also think they will take both Loughman and Heffernan. Then McNulty at hooker, and Ryan at lock. Thats 5. Of course maybe 1 of the TH's don't join but i cant see that happening.

Then it gets a bit unclear, Timmins will be the only backrow in the academy and they will take a least one player there if not two. A few options there, maybe Deegan and 1 other. Your at 7 then. But the academy would still be heavily back orientated at that stage.

Then 2 or 3 backs which are somewhat harder to identify at this stage. Jack Power being the most obvious option.

This class will certainly be forward heavy and maybe it wont be as much as 9 but it could easily be 8. As there is only Dooley, Molony and Timmins in Year 1 and 2.

ArmchairQB

JP Fanagan under 20 Leinster Results;

Clontarf 10 vs 18 Dublin University
Lansdowne 32 vs 24 UCD
NUIM Barnhall 19 vs 16 Blackrock College RFC
Old Belvedere 13 vs 53 Terenure College RFC

Was at the Belvo match but was very one sided hard to judge Terenure but Belvo were awful, went and watched UCD play Lansdowne much more competitive, Loughman and Dwan playing for UCD as well as Leavy and a few others from Leinster 20's, Cian O'Donoughue and the hooker McKenna was about all I recegonised from Lansdowne, O'Donoghue involved in 2 tries for Lansdowne looked good. Suprised at result but good game.

The Lost Sheep

ArmchairQB wrote: »

JP Fanagan under 20 Leinster Results;

Clontarf 10 vs 18 Dublin University
Lansdowne 32 vs 24 UCD
NUIM Barnhall 19 vs 16 Blackrock College RFC
Old Belvedere 13 vs 53 Terenure College RFC

Was at the Belvo match but was very one sided hard to judge Terenure but Belvo were awful, went and watched UCD play Lansdowne much more competitive, Loughman and Dwan playing for UCD as well as Leavy and a few others from Leinster 20's, Cian O'Donoughue and the hooker McKenna was about all I recegonised from Lansdowne, O'Donoghue involved in 2 tries for Lansdowne looked good. Suprised at result but good game.

Trinity were well deserved victors would have won by much more but were asleep for whole of second half.

In Northern section of Munster-Connacht South West Conference UL Bohs beat Crescent 17-3, Nenagh and Bruff wasn't played, Buccaneers beat Galwegians 53-10. No result from Shannon and Garryowen

South section of that league which has been named after Donal Walsh, the Tralee teen who died of cancer last year, doesn't start until next weekend

Board_man

ArmchairQB wrote: »

JP Fanagan under 20 Leinster Results;

Clontarf 10 vs 18 Dublin University
Lansdowne 32 vs 24 UCD
NUIM Barnhall 19 vs 16 Blackrock College RFC
Old Belvedere 13 vs 53 Terenure College RFC

Was at the Belvo match but was very one sided hard to judge Terenure but Belvo were awful, went and watched UCD play Lansdowne much more competitive, Loughman and Dwan playing for UCD as well as Leavy and a few others from Leinster 20's, Cian O'Donoughue and the hooker McKenna was about all I recegonised from Lansdowne, O'Donoghue involved in 2 tries for Lansdowne looked good. Suprised at result but good game.

Lansdowne vs UCD ended up only 25-23

Board_man

ArmchairQB wrote: »

JP Fanagan under 20 Leinster Results;

Clontarf 10 vs 18 Dublin University
Lansdowne 32 vs 24 UCD
NUIM Barnhall 19 vs 16 Blackrock College RFC
Old Belvedere 13 vs 53 Terenure College RFC

Was at the Belvo match but was very one sided hard to judge Terenure but Belvo were awful, went and watched UCD play Lansdowne much more competitive, Loughman and Dwan playing for UCD as well as Leavy and a few others from Leinster 20's, Cian O'Donoughue and the hooker McKenna was about all I recegonised from Lansdowne, O'Donoghue involved in 2 tries for Lansdowne looked good. Suprised at result but good game.

Lansdowne vs UCD ended up only 25-23

ArmchairQB

Board_man wrote: »

Lansdowne vs UCD ended up only 25-23

Heard you the 1st time:)
Just took the results from Leinster website no scoreboard at the game but did think there was only 1 point in it and was told it was 25-24 to Lansdowne but missed most ofthe 1st half so not sure

wise7

Is Mike Ruddock confirmed as Head Coach for Ireland U-20's 2014/2015 as the first Training Camp approaches?

Stainalert

wise7 wrote: »

Is Mike Ruddock confirmed as Head Coach for Ireland U-20's 2014/2015 as the first Training Camp approaches?

Best finish in a Junior RWC ever - Can't see why they would want to make a change unless David Nucifora has plans to bring in an Aussie mate

The Lost Sheep

wise7 wrote: »

Is Mike Ruddock confirmed as Head Coach for Ireland U-20's 2014/2015 as the first Training Camp approaches?

Yes. Best finish in a Junior RWC ever, IRFU not going to change after that

ArmchairQB

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Yes. Best finish in a Junior RWC ever, IRFU not going to change after that

You would hope so but rumours of serious cost cutting going on in IRFU hopefully they look to off field areas other than on field but who knows what they will do. I would not have much faith in them picking the right areas to save money. All expense trips to tournaments for blazers would be where I would start

wise7

Good to see 7 players from last year's Ireland 20's and who still underage this year involved in Leinster A's first B&I match tomorrow: Oisin Heffernan, Ross Moloney, Josh Murphy, Nick Mc Carthy, Ross Byrne, Cian Kelleher and Billy Dardis.

The Lost Sheep

ArmchairQB wrote: »

You would hope so but rumours of serious cost cutting going on in IRFU hopefully they look to off field areas other than on field but who knows what they will do. I would not have much faith in them picking the right areas to save money. All expense trips to tournaments for blazers would be where I would start

Yes there is cut backs but Ruddock is still coach.

wise7 wrote: »

Good to see 7 players from last year's Ireland 20's and who still underage this year involved in Leinster A's first B&I match tomorrow: Oisin Heffernan, Ross Moloney, Josh Murphy, Nick Mc Carthy, Ross Byrne, Cian Kelleher and Billy Dardis.

2 under 20s involved in the Munster A side: Greg O Shea and Tomas Quinlan. Both could get look in for Irish side

Hagz

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

2 under 20s involved in the Munster A side: Greg O Shea and Tomas Quinlan. Both could get look in for Irish side

Stephen Fitzgerald at full-back as well.

Ciaran Gaffney, Stephen McVeigh, Cian Romaine in the Eagles side as well.

phog

Ruddock steps down as U20s coach

Teferi

Ruddock stepping down, Connacht's Nigel Carolan takes over.

Has Ruddock been offered a position elsewhere?

FrannoFan

Teferi wrote: »

Ruddock stepping down, Connacht's Nigel Carolan takes over.

Has Ruddock been offered a position elsewhere?

Doesn't seem like it. Big change but maybe not bad to see how someone else does there. Carolan doing well out west but is there a conflict of interest?

Hagz

FrannoFan wrote: »

Doesn't seem like it. Big change but maybe not bad to see how someone else does there. Carolan doing well out west but is there a conflict of interest?

I suppose you could say the same about Ruddock and Lansdowne, but I will be a bit suspicious if we see the likes of Romaine, Lowndes, McVeigh etc involved. With Ruddock as coach I expected we'd see Gaffney and the possibility of 1 or 2 others, so it'll be interesting to see what happens here.

bilston

Hagz wrote: »

Stephen Fitzgerald at full-back as well.

Ciaran Gaffney, Stephen McVeigh, Cian Romaine in the Eagles side as well.

Ross Adair, Jack Owens, Jacob Stockdale and Sean O'Hagan in the Ravens team. Josh Bingham and Conor McKee both on the bench. Think they all qualify for the 20s this year. All backs...just what Ulster need!!

Hagz

Jacob Stockdale at 12, jack of all trades.

Stainalert

Hagz wrote: »

I suppose you could say the same about Ruddock and Lansdowne, but I will be a bit suspicious if we see the likes of Romaine, Lowndes, McVeigh etc involved. With Ruddock as coach I expected we'd see Gaffney and the possibility of 1 or 2 others, so it'll be interesting to see what happens here.

Yea interesting Gaffney wasn't making starting XV for Connacht 20s which I assume Carolan had a big input into. Different coaches will always favour different players I guess. Ruddock leaves the 20s in good shape with 10 players already blooded for the year ahead. Far cry from when he took over and they were in complete disarray. His legacy will be that we are now much more competitive at this level on a regular basis and the fact that a large number of his players have progressed onto the Ireland senior squad in a relatively short period. He seems to have done the same at Lansdowne with a regular conveyor belt of players making the professional grade under his guidance. Big asset to Irish rugby.

bilston

Hagz wrote: »

Jacob Stockdale at 12, jack of all trades.

Yeah, partnering Ricky Andrew of all people. Andrew being a FB of course.