Schools Cup 2014/2015 *mod warning post 1*

RedemptionZ

ArmchairQB wrote: »

People who say Michaels don't have a problem with coaching are deluded. I have been watching them closely the last 3 seasons and they could clearly be better drilled their tactics are from a bygone era rugby has moved on, Leinster rugby especially it is fast and free flowing and based on good attacking play and solid organised defence. Michaels style of play and tactics are totally wrong. They have some very good players and are not being utilised to their best of their ability. If Peter Smyth was in charge of Michaels they would be going for 3 in a row I have no doubt about that what so ever

Agreed completely. They have the team to play expansive rugby, not stupid conservative rugby. It's as if the coaching staff want to win their matches 6-0. No ambition in attack despite the obvious ability

Bridge93 wrote: »

Michaels would not have won the cup last year even if Joe Schmidt was coach. They simply were not good enough.

Disagree. They had the second best team last year, and with the right coaching could have definitely pulled one over on that blackrock team. They had a handy enough team with timony and loughman and co but they were far from unbeatable.

FrannoFan

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

Ha. Did Mary's knock your year out or something?

Haha, no not at all! But they have lost in the first round for about 6 years in a row and on a few of those occasions to league schools.

FrannoFan

ArmchairQB wrote: »

People who say Michaels don't have a problem with coaching are deluded. I have been watching them closely the last 3 seasons and they could clearly be better drilled their tactics are from a bygone era rugby has moved on, Leinster rugby especially it is fast and free flowing and based on good attacking play and solid organised defence. Michaels style of play and tactics are totally wrong. They have some very good players and are not being utilised to their best of their ability. If Peter Smyth was in charge of Michaels they would be going for 3 in a row I have no doubt about that what so ever

Would agree with that(bar the Peter Smyth part!)
When Michaels won under Kelvin Leahy they played an expansive possession based game relying on their superior skill set in the backline to cut teams open from anywhere.
O'Mara seems to coach as he played. Kicking, conservative, territory. It might work this year as they have such an exceptional pack but i feel there is every chance it won't and Michaels will have missed a golden opportunity.
In schools rugby it kinda doesn't matter where the linebreak comes from(look at Terenure try v Rock in first round) the better sides can finish. You don't have to play a territory/build pressure style of play.
O'Mara was uninspiring as a player and in uninspiring as a coach. Michaels must long for the days of Greg McWilliams and Leahy!

Garfield1980

First time in the new Donnybrook and saw one of the best schools games I've every seen. Marys very unlucky not to win it. Had a great chance just before Michaels length of the field try. Surprised people on here talking up St Michaels. Half backs were very average and wingers and full back poor. Scrum was in trouble for most game. St Mary's really up for it.
Just looking at St Michaels, O'Meara has 2 past pupils as his assistants, Ross Moloney who left 2 years ago. When you look back when they last won the cup Leahy had Jackman as his assistant. Big difference in "coaching" experience between then and now. The other schools wouldn't have such inexperienced coaches - Fulcher and Shaun Beirne doing Marys, Peter Smyth in blackrock has massive coaching experience , winning AILs etc, with New Zealander Pickering, Seamus Toomey and Tony Smeeth - was usa assistant coach, Noel Macnamara is Clongowes coach and does Ireland and Leinster schools with Brett Igoe as his assistant - was Mattie Williams assistant in Scotland,- Phil Weriekio was a pro coach in Uk and now is Belvo coach, the list goes on and on. Michaels may have some talented players but they must be wondering why, looking on yesterday's game they have inexperienced average coaching.

the baby bull elephant

FrannoFan wrote: »

Haha, no not at all! But they have lost in the first round for about 6 years in a row and on a few of those occasions to league schools.

That has happened twice, so in the last six years they'v reached the second round more often than not, with a semi against Clongowes in 2010 where they were the team to get closest to beating them. It's by no means been some widely successful period but hardly as bad as you clearly think it has been.

spillit67

Sorry but it's been a pretty poor period for them. Signs of life though.

Ed The Equalizer

How are places in the cups decided?

E.G. Wesley, Andrews, Kilkenny, CUS, CBC were in the draw this year, whereas Castleknock and Gerard's had to qualify.

Is there a system based on previous years' performance, or league results?

The Lost Sheep

Ed The Equalizer wrote: »

How are places in the cups decided?

E.G. Wesley, Andrews, Kilkenny, CUS, CBC were in the draw this year, whereas Castleknock and Gerard's had to qualify.

Is there a system based on previous years' performance, or league results?

Based on this years league results. You couldn't really base it on last years results

ken76

15 mins gone no score in Belvo game. loads of mistakes both sides.sloppy so far

ken76

7-0 to Belvo

Inspector Coptoor

Difficult conditions herd with the wind bit Belvo starting to get the upper hand.

1st Belvo try by 8 Tom de Jong
Converted by 10 Conor Jennings

2ns Belvo try scored by 13 James McKeown
Converted by 10 Conor Jennings

14-0 Belvo
27 mins gone

Inspector Coptoor

3rd Belvo try scored by 9 Hugh O Sullivan
Conversion misse by 10 C Jennings

Belvo 19 - 0 Zaga
33 mins gone

Inspector Coptoor

4th Belvo try scored by 12 Sean Long
Conversion missed

24-0

The Lost Sheep

Ard Scoil beat Munchins 21-13

Inspector Coptoor

1st Zags try scored by 13 Harry Brennan
Conversion missed by 10 McKeever
24-5

Inspector Coptoor

Penalty scored by Belvo 10 Jennings

27-5 Belvo

Inspector Coptoor

5th try by Belvo scored by 9 Hugh O Sulliivan

Conversion missed by 10 Jennings

32-5 to Belvo

The Lost Sheep

Munster SSC 1/4 draw
CCC v Glenstal. Castletroy v PBC. Rockwell v Munchins . ASR v CBC

ken76

Not that impressed with Belvo.Decent 8,9,10.that's about it

thebaz

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Munster SSC 1/4 draw
CCC v Glenstal. Castletroy v PBC. Rockwell v Munchins . ASR v CBC

did i not read today glenstal were knocked out ??

no surprise in belvo hammering zaga, usual story with zaga produce some great individuals , but no bottle/fight come cup time.

The Lost Sheep

thebaz wrote: »

did i not read today glenstal were knocked out ??

no surprise in belvo hammering zaga, usual story with zaga produce some great individuals, but no bottle/fight come cup time.

Munster unlike Leinster and Ulster give schools more than one bite of the cherry which is fair. All schools get 2 game.

thebaz

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Munster unlike Leinster and Ulster give schools more than one bite of the cherry which is fair. All schools get 2 game.

so what was the advantage of winning yesterday - seed the quarters ??

The Lost Sheep

thebaz wrote: »

so what was the advantage of winning yesterday - seed the quarters ??

Yeah and home city venue.

1StradBROOK

spillit67 wrote: »

Again :rolleyes:

I'm not going to rehash the unfairness against League schools, but instead the general competitiveness of the Cup.

Between 1999 and 2005, Michaels did not win a match in the Cup, in fact during that period it was constantly suggested to them that they should go back to the League. During that period Marys and Terenure were very strong. In the 80s/early 90s Terenure were very strong with McClean at the helm. Clongowes had long barren periods before Vinnie Murray.

The point? The Cup changes, teams rise and fall. It is a constantly changing landscape and it will change again. One figure in a school can make a huge difference to a rugby programme. The only rugby programme which remains strong perpetually is Blackrock, for obvious reasons.

That's aside from the fact that how the hell do you pick seeds year to year? Last year's performance? With a huge changeover in personnel? Would Blackrock have been no 1 then in 2010 after winning in 2009, despite having a middle of the pack side?

If we are going to go down the route of trying to avoid the "beauty of the Cup" competition format and look to get the best teams every year to the latter stages of the Cup, then we should go to the Heineken Cup format so the "on the day" factor and open draw element is neutralised. Not going to happen though, most schools don't want it unfortunately.

Also where do you get the idea that the "main draws" are those 3 schools. They aren't. Belvo or Terenure doing well would draw more than Michaels or Clongowes. When a league school steps up like Kilkenny in 2007, CBC in 2008, Gerards in 2010/2011, Roscrea over several years of late, Newbridge the last two years or Andrews last year the past pupils of those schools are all engaged, probably more so as they aren't spoiled with cup runs like a Blackrock past pupil.

One things for sure - having seeds would prevent schools saving their players pre-season and unleashing them at cup time - a few tough draws from bad pre-season results would stop "dark horses" bluffing the system.

1StradBROOK

spillit67 wrote: »

Clongowes, Blackrock and Roscrea were actually pretty strong as well.

Gonzaga had Dominic Ryan and John Cooney on their team as well.

Roscrea are sh1te. They had a magnificent side in 2013 when they got to the semi and lost to a small Rock team and for the life of me played running rugby. Far sight from the 99% of the time when they bring teams down to the cabbage patch in stormy Tipperary and mud bath them Dublin backs teams off the pitch.

Ed The Equalizer

ken76 wrote: »

Not that impressed with Belvo.Decent 8,9,10.that's about it

Me neither. As bad as Michaels were yesterday I don't think Belvo would cause them too many problems.

rughug

1StradBROOK wrote: »

Roscrea are sh1te. They had a magnificent side in 2013 when they got to the semi and lost to a small Rock team and for the life of me played running rugby. Far sight from the 99% of the time when they bring teams down to the cabbage patch in stormy Tipperary and mud bath them Dublin backs teams off the pitch.

When exactly is the draw for the quarter finals on......friday , saturday, or sunday.

1StradBROOK

RedemptionZ wrote: »

They always would have had the pressure on them, this is the golden year for Michaels probably their best team ever. Doubt it will affect the players, though from what I've heard coaching is a bit of an issue with Brian O Meara not being the best man manager and having a very conservative view of how to play the game.

That's how teams sow the seed of doubt in the mind's of the opposition before a ball is even kicked - finding something about the opposition and making them use it as a point of discord. You shoudn't have opened your mouth.

its_phil

1StradBROOK wrote: »

Roscrea are sh1te. They had a magnificent side in 2013 when they got to the semi and lost to a small Rock team and for the life of me played running rugby. Far sight from the 99% of the time when they bring teams down to the cabbage patch in stormy Tipperary and mud bath them Dublin backs teams off the pitch.

Hilarious stuff. I'm sure if the Roscrea SCT are reading this they're pissing themselves laughing on their all weather senior rugby pitch.

OceanSixteen

I taught Belvedere made a lot of mistakes today but they still managed to get 5 tries, McKeown at 13, De Jongh at 8 and O'Sullivan at 9 stood out for me. Can see them improving from here on

1StradBROOK

funtime93 wrote: »

Michaels front row have 2 starters back from last year. Second rows and back row very strong aswell as the centres. I agree about 10 though and their back 3 isn't great either. They're favourites alright but not as hotly tipped as rock and terenure in the past two years. Nobody is talking about clongowes who I think have a great chance. 4 Irish schools starters from the u18 comp last April in their squad. Overall standard of teams is down on previous years though

They like to play it coy - not play their players pre-season is fooling noone - scouts will have been out watching Clongowes over the course of the season and since they were 13 years old. They're fooling noone and can't hide away in the open war of schools rugby for more than 5 years or so.

1StradBROOK

The Parish King wrote: »

Thoughts on the CBC CUS match today? Haven't been following too much this year at all, only have heard that Monkstown beat Michaels and Clongows I think it was..

And they were the only top 10 school to be left out of the muckers version of a schools tournament in Clongowes last year. Roscrea were invited ahead of them but of course are nowhere near the Dublin schools in real terms.

ken76

The Belvedere game was very stop/start due to niggley injuries to both sides,and it was freezing.Taking that into account maybe they will improve.But I thought wingers were slow, the number 6 is a big unit but can't tackle and line out was sloppy.Hope they do get better.

Ed The Equalizer

1StradBROOK wrote: »

They like to play it coy - not play their players pre-season is fooling noone - scouts will have been out watching Clongowes over the course of the season and since they were 13 years old. They're fooling noone and can't hide away in the open war of schools rugby for more than 5 years or so.

I think it's more to do with the school setup. As a 6 year school, with quite a few first years having never played before, they generally fail to get it together for the junior cup. Then, because the seniors are a mix of 4th, 5th and 6th years, they generally don't know their full team until Christmas of 6th year.

It's not the case of holding players back and trying to fool other schools - it's that it takes the full 6 years to recover from the disadvantage of not having a primary school. Then the boarding school advantage kicks in and it all comes together at senior cup time, year after year.

1StradBROOK

its_phil wrote: »

Hilarious stuff. I'm sure if the Roscrea SCT are reading this they're pissing themselves laughing on their all weather senior rugby pitch.

They could be sipping tequilas with somberos in copacobana - you can't reverse or undo decades of historic mud bath playing sides. Roscrea are mulchies and they love mauling (as in the rolling maul not the metaphorical sense) Dublin sides off the pitch - always have done - always have! Comical response from you.

justrgbytalk

I attended the Roscrea game yesterday, where I spoke to a reliable source (sounds ridiculous for schools rugby) who said that there were between 6 and 8 players brought in specifically on rugby scholarships in the team. He also mentioned that they are part funded by Connacht as a way to develop their most promising underage prospects outside of clubs where the players will be receiving weak coaching. As much as I can see that this is all within the rules, I was delighted to hear him bring up that the 20 month rule will almost definitely be implemented by next year somewhat eliminating the ability for the like of Blackrock and Roscrea to recruit.

FrannoFan

the baby bull elephant wrote: »

That has happened twice, so in the last six years they'v reached the second round more often than not, with a semi against Clongowes in 2010 where they were the team to get closest to beating them. It's by no means been some widely successful period but hardly as bad as you clearly think it has been.

fair enough, i thought they hadn't got past first round since Jack McGrath season. The looses to the league schools stood out in my memory.
still reckon they would find joining the league a useful competition. Their chances of winning the cup do seem slim most years with declining numbers. Roscrea and Newbridge both use the league as a spring board to reasonably successful cup campaigns in recent years.

its_phil

1StradBROOK wrote: »

They could be sipping tequilas with somberos in copacobana - you can't reverse or undo decades of historic mud bath playing sides. Roscrea are mulchies and they love mauling (as in the rolling maul not the metaphorical sense) Dublin sides off the pitch - always have done - always have! Comical response from you.

Wasn't aware mauling teams off the park was a culchie thing. Better tell Simon Easterby and Joe Schmidt to stop using it as their most effective weapon unless it's a pack of boggers from Connacht, Ulster, Munster and anywhere outside the pale. Have you ever left the pale or that troll bridge you live under as a matter of fact?

Hammers15

Any prediction on Castleknock vs Clongowes?

rje66

Hammers15 wrote: »

Any prediction on Castleknock vs Clongowes?

Clongowes by 40 methinks......just a hunch.

1StradBROOK

its_phil wrote: »

Wasn't aware mauling teams off the park was a culchie thing. Better tell Simon Easterby and Joe Schmidt to stop using it as their most effective weapon unless it's a pack of boggers from Connacht, Ulster, Munster and anywhere outside the pale. Have you ever left the pale or that troll bridge you live under as a matter of fact?

I've no intention of going outside it the smell of excrement is enough every moring when I walk the past the Public toilets in fairview park.

Mod: Banned for trolling. Let's have no more of this rubbish from anyone else

Tixel

justrgbytalk wrote: »

I attended the Roscrea game yesterday, where I spoke to a reliable source (sounds ridiculous for schools rugby) who said that there were between 6 and 8 players brought in specifically on rugby scholarships in the team. He also mentioned that they are part funded by Connacht as a way to develop their most promising underage prospects outside of clubs where the players will be receiving weak coaching. As much as I can see that this is all within the rules, I was delighted to hear him bring up that the 20 month rule will almost definitely be implemented by next year somewhat eliminating the ability for the like of Blackrock and Roscrea to recruit.

Haha brilliant. I was talking to a very reliable source yesterday who was with kate moss and cheryl cole on the one night. If this petty begrudgery helps you to explain your own schools inadequacies then best of luck to you. is this the same every good roscrea team over the past 5 years? 50 years? Is this the only way roscrea can win? maybe we should ban them from the comp so that the schools they are beating can win something? stop boys coming into 5th year in a boarding school is the equivalent to limiting dublin schools to post code areas. cowardly, careless and dull post.

Hammers15

rje66 wrote: »

Clongowes by 40 methinks......just a hunch.

Knock had a solid game vs Gerard's who put it up to Clongowes

Zzippy

Folks, a reminder of the first post in this thread. New posters especially are advised to read the rugby forum charter to see what the rules are before posting.

This is your warning! Unfortunately a minority of posters will act the dick and try and turn this thread into a cluster **** so there are special rules around this thread which are

There are no warning and infraction. ONLY BANS of varying length
new poster acting the dick will be permanently banned from the rugby forum
Making **** up will lead to a permanent ban
If this threads becomes a head ache it will be closed especially if non of the competitions have even started yet
Re-regs will be of course banned all their posts will be removed and direct replies to them this may result in weird continuity gaps

Header15

Tixel wrote: »

Haha brilliant. I was talking to a very reliable source yesterday who was with kate moss and cheryl cole on the one night. If this petty begrudgery helps you to explain your own schools inadequacies then best of luck to you. is this the same every good roscrea team over the past 5 years? 50 years? Is this the only way roscrea can win? maybe we should ban them from the comp so that the schools they are beating can win something? stop boys coming into 5th year in a boarding school is the equivalent to limiting dublin schools to post code areas. cowardly, careless and dull post.

As a past pupil of Roscrea I can assure you that his sources are actually reliable. Majority of new students attend solely for rugby and academics are forgotten about.

Buckfast92

Caught most of Blackrock earlier, Kilgallen was very impressive. What year is he in? Is he a Leinster underage rep?

Hagz

Buckfast92 wrote: »

Caught most of Blackrock earlier, Kilgallen was very impressive. What year is he in? Is he a Leinster underage rep?

He's in 5th year. No.

Buckfast92

Cheers.

StarWalker0

Tixel wrote: »

Haha brilliant. I was talking to a very reliable source yesterday who was with kate moss and cheryl cole on the one night. If this petty begrudgery helps you to explain your own schools inadequacies then best of luck to you. is this the same every good roscrea team over the past 5 years? 50 years? Is this the only way roscrea can win? maybe we should ban them from the comp so that the schools they are beating can win something? stop boys coming into 5th year in a boarding school is the equivalent to limiting dublin schools to post code areas. cowardly, careless and dull post.

Well they have a prop and a lock who played Munster u18 clubs last September and another lock who joined from leinster midlands(shane horgan cup) this summer, who ended up being involved with Leinster u18 schools but otherwise would have played Leinster u18 clubs.

StarWalker0

How much does it cost to go into a schools game at donnybrook?