Schools Cup 2014/2015 *mod warning post 1*

Hagz

It's been an odd year. Usually you can look at the champions and pick out 3/4 quality players to go on to better things, but there's no real team like that this year. What players from the remaining teams look like Academy prospects? Dare I say it's not a good year talent wise? I think the interpros reflect that. Michael's were the team that looked the most like champions on paper.

Tox56

Hagz wrote: »

It's been an odd year. Usually you can look at the champions and pick out 3/4 quality players to go on to better things, but there's no real team like that this year. What players from the remaining teams look like Academy prospects? Dare I say it's not a good year talent wise? I think the interpros reflect that. Michael's were the team that looked the most like champions on paper.

There's been a lot of very good years recently, it had to happen at some point

Annabella1

Clongowes 8/13 with P Power

Hagz

Aye but looking at those names I'd be surprised if any of them ever enter the Leinster Academy. The one with the most potential looks to be Will Connors to me. So Clongowes for the cup it is.

funtime93

Hagz wrote: »

Aye but looking at those names I'd be surprised if any of them ever enter the Leinster Academy. The one with the most potential looks to be Will Connors to me. So Clongowes for the cup it is.

Despite a poor cup james Ryan is a shoe-in

Hagz

funtime93 wrote: »

Despite a poor cup james Ryan is a shoe-in

I know, but I'm talking about the guys still in it. Michael's are knocked out.

vienne86

Rock beaten! Wow. Great performance from Roscrea! Wide open now.

Lobby Con Shine

Roscrea fan just back from the match.

I think Roz deserved the win.

Ultimately, Blackrock had three chances - two tries in the first half and a close scrum early in the second. Other than that, the game was played entirely in the Blackrock half.

That Blackrock 13 is outstanding. Lightening quick, great balance. The best player on the pitch IMO. Scrum half good too but the Blackrock pack was swallowed hole without salt.

I think we have witnessed a shift the rugby powers in the last few years. With Belvo likely to win tomorrow, there'll be no Southside Dublin team left in the competition.

More than that, Roz are now snapping up every good young player in Connacht. There is a direct telephone line between Connacht Rugby and Roz. Any young player from anywhere outside of Dublin must surely look to board at Roz in the future. You have an automatic line into the Connnacht Academy which is less competitive or crowded than the Leinster or Ulster versions.

Bridge93

Lobby Con Shine wrote: »

Roscrea fan just back from the match.

I think Roz deserved the win.

Ultimately, Blackrock had three chances - two tries in the first half and a close scrum early in the second. Other than that, the game was played entirely in the Blackrock half.

That Blackrock 13 is outstanding. Lightening quick, great balance. The best player on the pitch IMO. Scrum half good too but the Blackrock pack was swallowed hole without salt.

I think we have witnessed a shift the rugby powers in the last few years. With Belvo likely to win tomorrow, there'll be no Southside Dublin team left in the competition.

More than that, Roz are now snapping up every good young player in Connacht. There is a direct telephone line between Connacht Rugby and Roz. Any young player from anywhere outside of Dublin must surely look to board at Roz in the future. You have an automatic line into the Connnacht Academy which is less competitive or crowded than the Leinster or Ulster versions.

Agree with the vast majority of that. Roscrea fully deserved that today. Had more ball and territory. It would have been awful if it had come down to Foley's kicks as hard as some were as he is an excellent player who was good outside of his kicking.
Rock just panicked a bit when the pressure came on. It's an incredibly young team with something like 15 fourth and fifth years involved today and in the last game and that showed.
Also agree that Roscrea and by extension Connacht should hopefully become a more enticing option. Would prefer it to be lads from Connacht rather than Leinster though.
With regard to a power shift, I see it more as an expansion of the cup. It's not that the South Dublin schools are all weaker just that those outside Dublin are stronger like Newbridge and Roscrea. The last 3 cups have all been won by Southside schools and michaels/rock were favourites again. South Dublin will always be strong, but now we have competition spreading in the province.

Lobby Con Shine

Bridge93 wrote: »

Agree with the vast majority of that. Roscrea fully deserved that today. Had more ball and territory. It would have been awful if it had come down to Foley's kicks as hard as some were as he is an excellent player who was good outside of his kicking.
Rock just panicked a bit when the pressure came on. It's an incredibly young team with something like 15 fourth and fifth years involved today and in the last game and that showed.
Also agree that Roscrea and by extension Connacht should hopefully become a more enticing option. Would prefer it to be lads from Connacht rather than Leinster though.
With regard to a power shift, I see it more as an expansion of the cup. It's not that the South Dublin schools are all weaker just that those outside Dublin are stronger like Newbridge and Roscrea. The last 3 cups have all been won by Southside schools and michaels/rock were favourites again. South Dublin will always be strong, but now we have competition spreading in the province.

Agreed. Perhaps "Power Shift" is the wrong phrase. I certainly don't think that the southside Dublin schools will be replaced but, as you say, there is a different dynamic to the Cup now. Favourites such as Blackrock will no longer hope for teams like Roz or Newbridge in the draw. Remember also that these teams play their first round matches outside of Dublin which is a disadvantage for Dublin-based schools.

Hon the Dubs

Clongoes have looked strong so far I'd definitely have them as favourites now! Bookies will have had a field day this year if they lose next round tho...

Inspector Coptoor

I doubt it's a market that sees huge amount of lumping on to be fair.

Watching a replay of the game here.
Tynan was great for Roscrea.
Rock were v slick with ball in hand but the Roscrea Defence was awesome in the 2nd half.

thebaz

Lobby Con Shine wrote: »

More than that, Roz are now snapping up every good young player in Connacht. There is a direct telephone line between Connacht Rugby and Roz. Any young player from anywhere outside of Dublin must surely look to board at Roz in the future. You have an automatic line into the Connnacht Academy which is less competitive or crowded than the Leinster or Ulster versions.

and that is what takes the shine of Roscrea big day - real David and Goliath stuff - well not really - in normal circumstances I would have delighted in there victory ,but how many of the team were recruited for rugby skills ? - schools rugby should be about natural devolpment of teams, not an underage recruitment factory - the professional stuff can wait for after .

EnglishGuy941

Glenstal beat Crescent Comp 6-3
PBC beat Castletroy 22-15.

MightyJoeYoung

thebaz wrote: »

and that is what takes the shine of Roscrea big day - real David and Goliath stuff - well not really - in normal circumstances I would have delighted in there victory ,but how many of the team were recruited for rugby skills ? - schools rugby should be about natural devolpment of teams, not an underage recruitment factory - the professional stuff can wait for after .

I'd agree to an extent with this but I feel its a good idea to have a team that isn't Dublin based to recruit a number of players. At the end of the day by playing with better players the overall standard of players can only improve. Personally I hope that Newbridge or Roscrea win the cup this year as both schools have really been knocking on the door for a few years now

thebaz

MightyJoeYoung wrote: »

I'd agree to an extent with this but I feel its a good idea to have a team that isn't Dublin based to recruit a number of players. At the end of the day by playing with better players the overall standard of players can only improve.

but why should non Dublin schools get an advantage - to me it should be an equal playing field - no team in Dublin or outside will match Rock for numbers - I'm probably an old fashioned romantic, and in my dealing with Roscrea had nothing but good , but a lot of old rugby schools in Dublin , mainly non fee-paying are fading

Inspector Coptoor

Name a non fee paying rugby school that has been a contender in the last 15 years?

Roscrea had 13 first years on roll 3 years ago vs 200 in Rock.

MightyJoeYoung

thebaz wrote: »

but why should non Dublin schools get an advantage - to me it should be an equal playing field - no team in Dublin or outside will match Rock for numbers - I'm probably an old fashioned romantic, and in my dealing with Roscrea had nothing but good , but a lot of old rugby schools in Dublin , mainly non fee-paying are fading

I agree that it should be an equal playing field but realistically it wont as the top teams always have and probably always will poach the best players from smaller schools. I think Roscrea is a good place to create a hub of young talent as some young kids wouldn't be suited to a school like Blackrock or Clongowes.

thebaz

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Name a non fee paying rugby school that has been a contender in the last 15 years?

Roscrea had 13 first years on roll 3 years ago vs 200 in Rock.

so they don't have eneogh for a team , and year on year they can compete with most. just saying

its_phil

thebaz wrote: »

and that is what takes the shine of Roscrea big day - real David and Goliath stuff - well not really - in normal circumstances I would have delighted in there victory ,but how many of the team were recruited for rugby skills ? - schools rugby should be about natural devolpment of teams, not an underage recruitment factory - the professional stuff can wait for after .

Such uneducated nonsense.

thebaz

its_phil wrote: »

Such uneducated nonsense.

touched a nerve - sorry for my uneducated drivel

goodbye

jony_dols

thebaz wrote: »

and that is what takes the shine of Roscrea big day - real David and Goliath stuff - well not really - in normal circumstances I would have delighted in there victory ,but how many of the team were recruited for rugby skills ? - schools rugby should be about natural devolpment of teams, not an underage recruitment factory - the professional stuff can wait for after .

The reasons why Connacht lads go to Roscrea in senior house are simple:


-There is no boarding schools left in the province. Ever since Garbally & Jarlaths's boarding shut, family's have started sending their sons to Roscrea. Unfortunately rugby academys out in the sth'icks of Letrim aren't a common sight.

- Mummsie doesn't want to send lil Jimmy across country to boarding school at 12/13 anymore. Because he's too precious and whatnot....Hence why they send them off, when he is 15+.

- Six years of boarding school is expensive. 3 Years of boarding school is less so. Parents get benefits of Jimmy playing rugby and some of the best LC results in the country, for half the price.

- Roscrea is barely scraping by as is & they don't have anywhere near the donorship of the larger schools. Some minor pricecuts in annual fees are handed out in exceptional circumstances.


Where do people think Roscrea are getting money from to subsidize this 'underage recruitment factory'? -Are they charging the 17 first year's parents 6 digit fees? Bake sales? Student run car-washes?

'Rock on the other hand have the Willow park junior school that feeds in 200 fee paying students per annum, the ability to 'recruit' (like Roscrea) with it's 5 day boarding & they seem to have a certain knack for highlighting tax breaks for their cash-strapped alumni donation programs:






How are the poor helpless David's of Leinster Schools like Blackrock supposed to compete against the financial clout that a Goliath like Roscrea brings to the table.....

Ed The Equalizer

When's the new recruitment rule coming in? That will scupper Roscrea...

Bridge93

jony_dols wrote: »

The reasons why Connacht lads go to Roscrea in senior house are simple:


-There is no boarding schools left in the province. Ever since Garbally & Jarlaths's boarding shut, family's have started sending their sons to Roscrea. Unfortunately rugby academys out in the sth'icks of Letrim aren't a common sight.

- Mummsie doesn't want to send lil Jimmy across country to boarding school at 12/13 anymore. Because he's too precious and whatnot....Hence why they send them off, when he is 15+.

- Six years of boarding school is expensive. 3 Years of boarding school is less so. Parents get benefits of Jimmy playing rugby and some of the best LC results in the country, for half the price.

- Roscrea is barely scraping by as is & they don't have anywhere near the donorship of the larger schools. Some minor pricecuts in annual fees are handed out in exceptional circumstances.


Where do people think Roscrea are getting money from to subsidize this 'underage recruitment factory'? -Are they charging the 17 first year's parents 6 digit fees? Bake sales? Student run car-washes?

'Rock on the other hand have the Willow park junior school that feeds in 200 fee paying students per annum, the ability to 'recruit' (like Roscrea) with it's 5 day boarding & they seem to have a certain knack for highlighting tax breaks for their cash-strapped alumni donation programs:






How are the poor helpless David's of Leinster Schools like Blackrock supposed to compete against the financial clout that a Goliath like Roscrea brings to the table.....

Pretty sad post. I don't think anyone has said anything remotely close to Blackrock having it hard to keep up. Seems like someone trying to get their little dig in.
Also Willow Park has no more than maybe 90/95 in each year.
I don't what the highlighting of tax breaks on donations has to do with anything other than more points scoring. Why wouldn't they highlight it? Again it has zero to do with the kids who attend the school (or any other school for that matter) It's charitable donations to anywhere not just Rock over €250 you can claim back on

themont85

jony_dols wrote: »

The reasons why Connacht lads go to Roscrea in senior house are simple:


-There is no boarding schools left in the province. Ever since Garbally & Jarlaths's boarding shut, family's have started sending their sons to Roscrea. Unfortunately rugby academys out in the sth'icks of Letrim aren't a common sight.

- Mummsie doesn't want to send lil Jimmy across country to boarding school at 12/13 anymore. Because he's too precious and whatnot....Hence why they send them off, when he is 15+.

- Six years of boarding school is expensive. 3 Years of boarding school is less so. Parents get benefits of Jimmy playing rugby and some of the best LC results in the country, for half the price.

- Roscrea is barely scraping by as is & they don't have anywhere near the donorship of the larger schools. Some minor pricecuts in annual fees are handed out in exceptional circumstances.


Where do people think Roscrea are getting money from to subsidize this 'underage recruitment factory'? -Are they charging the 17 first year's parents 6 digit fees? Bake sales? Student run car-washes?

'Rock on the other hand have the Willow park junior school that feeds in 200 fee paying students per annum, the ability to 'recruit' (like Roscrea) with it's 5 day boarding & they seem to have a certain knack for highlighting tax breaks for their cash-strapped alumni donation programs:






How are the poor helpless David's of Leinster Schools like Blackrock supposed to compete against the financial clout that a Goliath like Roscrea brings to the table.....

Tax efficient giving? Everyone is entitled to that. Why query a school looking for donations? It's the smart thing to do, I imagine Roscrea have looked for some before.

It isn't beyond the pale to question it when Blackrock are regularly on here. Given that CCR have reached the final in 2011 and now the semis in 2013 and 2015 with many going onto the Connacht Academy who arrive in the school in 5th/6th year, people are going to be curious. In 2012 they arguably were the best side in the competition and were very unlucky in the 1st round. Being ultra defensive and comparing to Blackrock is a bit nuts.

themont85

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Name a non fee paying rugby school that has been a contender in the last 15 years?

Roscrea had 13 first years on roll 3 years ago vs 200 in Rock.

Pres Bray reached the JC final in 2004. It's more in the last 30 years - DeLa Salle, Templeogue and Pres were relatively strong then.

milosh

Ed The Equalizer wrote: »

When's the new recruitment rule coming in? That will scupper Roscrea...

From next year but they do not affect anyone already in the schools

Ed The Equalizer

milosh wrote: »

From next year but they do not affect anyone already in the schools

Is this how it works? A new recruit coming into the school at the beginning of 4th year then can't play SCT until 6th year?

Lobby Con Shine

thebaz wrote: »

and that is what takes the shine of Roscrea big day - real David and Goliath stuff - well not really - in normal circumstances I would have delighted in there victory ,but how many of the team were recruited for rugby skills ? - schools rugby should be about natural devolpment of teams, not an underage recruitment factory - the professional stuff can wait for after .

What are you on about?

The only reason Roscrea are competing is because they've started to do what Blackrock and other schools have been doing for decades - poaching the best talent from other places.

Your "romantic" notion is that Blackrock should continue to poach and have massive numbers and all the advantages over smaller schools.

thebaz

Lobby Con Shine wrote: »

What are you on about?

The only reason Roscrea are competing is because they've started to do what Blackrock and other schools have been doing for decades - poaching the best talent from other places.

Your "romantic" notion is that Blackrock should continue to poach and have massive numbers and all the advantages over smaller schools.

I don't think anyone should poach for schools rugby - be it Blackrock , Roscrea or whoever - I don't believe all schools do it , it kills off other smaller schools rugby competiveness - thats all.
What Roscrea achieved yesterday was a brilliant achievement, maybe I should have said nothing

milosh

Ed The Equalizer wrote: »

Is this how it works? A new recruit coming into the school at the beginning of 4th year then can't play SCT until 6th year?

Exactly. You must be in the school 20 months before the start of the cup to play. So unless you come in 4th year you cannot play and anyone who starts in 4th year can't play till 6th.

Bridge93

milosh wrote: »

Exactly. You must be in the school 20 months before the start of the cup to play. So unless you come in 4th year you cannot play and anyone who starts in 4th year can't play till 6th.

How far down the chain would it go? Like is it just cup rugby or will it include 2nd/3rd teams?

milosh

Bridge93 wrote: »

How far down the chain would it go? Like is it just cup rugby or will it include 2nd/3rd teams?

Don't know if it extends to Junior Cup but I would hope it does. If not then all you do is push the poaching back to younger ages. Normally sct rules are mirrored at jct.

Anyone who comes into a school is free to play other competitions like 2nd and 3rd just not senior cup.

albacrypts

Great win yesterday. Most heart stopping match I have ever attended.

A point to remember is that CCR have only won a QF so no point in getting too carried away just yet. If they lose next match this team will be quickly forgotten like 2013 team. The teams that are remembered in CCR are those that made finals like 1999 and 2011. They both lost unfortunately but are still the best CCR has produced along with 1941 and 1910 finalists.

Next match will not be easy no matter who against. CWC are rightly favorites and that is who I would put my money on and Belvo are rightly 2nd with Bookies (both have 10 titles each approx which says a lot). Newbridge beat CCR in League final. None of them will be underestimating CCR. I hope and pray CCR win semi and go on to win final but still a long way to go.

The second point I would like to address is all this rubbish about CCR being virtually part of Connacht Academy and getting funding from them.

- With the closure of Garbally went last boys only boarding school in Connacht that played rugby and had a Catholic ethos. Sligo Grammer is mixed boys \ girls boarding \ day and has a C of I ethos. It is not particularly strong at rugby.

- Connacht parents who want to send boys to a non Dublin 7 day boarding school are now left with 3 choices, CCR \ CWC and Glenstall Abbey in Limerick. CCR although still quite expensive is slightly cheaper than other two and is the most "country" being far removed from any city. CWC is the better Rugby school unfortunately. Although CCR accepts Dublin students its preference has always been small town \ rural Ireland.

- Good young rugby players know that if they want to get ahead in rugby that they chances are greatly helped by going to a good rugby school in Leinster. But that is not their decision. They cannot go unless Daddy and Mammy have the money to pay fees and the school is happy to accept them.

- Yes there undoubtly is some small discounts available to encourage good Rugby players as this is good business to help improve team and encourage other pupils to come who will pay full fees. There are also academic and music scholarships and also probably discounts for good hurlers (school has won a couple of B All Irelands)

- Mammy and Daddy may only have money for TY onwards or maybe only last two years or may think Johnny to young to hack it away from home in Junior cycle. Johnny may be too young to hack it. It boils down to money and character of kid. Another point to add is that CCR is one of the highest performing schools academically in country based on Sunday times list and normally is highest performing school in Leinster outside DUblin (even though incorrectly included in Munster) and within top 30 schools in Country. It periodically happens that nailed down starters for SCT give up rugby in final year to concentrate on leaving

- Connacht Rugby undoubtly now love CCR but this is only a recent love based on success of CCR in past 5 years or so before that they ignored it. They woke up to the fact that they had a top 8 Leinster school just accross the Shannon many of whose students were from Connacht that they could tap for talent. (They also noticed that Leinster tended to ignore it). Talent that was professionally coached for 2-6 years in a professional manner and played in the hardest and possibly highest standard schools division outside of New Zealand. The surprise is that Munster have not got in on the act as CCR this past 5 years or so would have probably won 3\4 Munster schools titles and school is just outside their boarders. Not surprising Munster has poorest academy if they are so dozy.
It is not that Connacht are helping CCR it is the other way around. Connacht has a good acadamy and presence of NUIG and GMIT helps seal the deal. If Connacht were paying for scholarships in CCR they would be advertising fact in local clubs (why would you keep a good idea like this secret). It would be a great idea if they had the money but unfortunately they do not.

So lets cut out all this rubbish about CCR having some unfair advantage just because for once (have they ever beaten Rock in cup before??) they have a better team than most successful in competition by many miles. Unfortunately Rock will win more cups in the future than CCR but we can dream a little longer this year at least.

The Lost Sheep

Lobby Con Shine wrote: »

More than that, Roz are now snapping up every good young player in Connacht. There is a direct telephone line between Connacht Rugby and Roz. Any young player from anywhere outside of Dublin must surely look to board at Roz in the future. You have an automatic line into the Connnacht Academy which is less competitive or crowded than the Leinster or Ulster versions.

They are not actually "snapping up every good young player in Connacht". Fees etc come into the factor. 1 of the players who played yesterday moved to the school from Bantry Cork and would have been a definite Munster Youth this season if he hadn't of moved. You don't have an automatic line to the Connacht academy

MightyJoeYoung wrote: »

I'd agree to an extent with this but I feel its a good idea to have a team that isn't Dublin based to recruit a number of players. At the end of the day by playing with better players the overall standard of players can only improve. Personally I hope that Newbridge or Roscrea win the cup this year as both schools have really been knocking on the door for a few years now

Recruit from where though? What about the clubs etc that lose the players?

thebaz wrote: »

but why should non Dublin schools get an advantage - to me it should be an equal playing field - no team in Dublin or outside will match Rock for numbers - I'm probably an old fashioned romantic, and in my dealing with Roscrea had nothing but good, but a lot of old rugby schools in Dublin, mainly non fee-paying are fading

What schools in Dublin are you referring to?

Glenstal beat Comp 6-3 and PBC beat Castletroy 22-15 in Munster Quarters. Semi final draw is PBC v Ard Scoil and Glenstal v Rockwell

themont85

Lobby Con Shine wrote: »

What are you on about?

The only reason Roscrea are competing is because they've started to do what Blackrock and other schools have been doing for decades - poaching the best talent from other places.

Your "romantic" notion is that Blackrock should continue to poach and have massive numbers and all the advantages over smaller schools.

What do you mean "other schools"? You are using Blackrock as your example, there are 16 or 17 other schools who regularly compete at the top level.

They all aren't getting Academy prospects brought in. It's natural some will be miffed.

albacrypts

I expect that this board will go quiet now that no South County Dublin schools left. What are odds of no Dublin school in final for 2nd time in 5 years. Before 2011 one had to go back to 1941 for a similar event. Are Dublin losing their grip on this competition.

elasticcomplex

Is this 20 Month Ruling actually coming into effect? Like does anyone have solid proof or is it word of mouth as of now? Not calling anyone liars just genuinely interested to see how this pans out

themont85

albacrypts wrote: »

I expect that this board will go quiet now that no South County Dublin schools left. What are odds of no Dublin school in final for 2nd time in 5 years. Before 2011 one had to go back to 1941 for a similar event. Are Dublin losing their grip on this competition.

CBC Monkstown:rolleyes:

Hon the Dubs

elasticcomplex wrote: »

Is this 20 Month Ruling actually coming into effect? Like does anyone have solid proof or is it word of mouth as of now? Not calling anyone liars just genuinely interested to see how this pans out

Not sure of the exact details but I've heard that it won't be because the schools can just take them to court or something about it - not 100% certain but it's something like they can't actually enforce it but I might be completely wrong it's just what I've heard

Hagz

albacrypts wrote: »

I expect that this board will go quiet now that no South County Dublin schools left. What are odds of no Dublin school in final for 2nd time in 5 years. Before 2011 one had to go back to 1941 for a similar event. Are Dublin losing their grip on this competition.

Considering the last 3 champions have been Dublin schools I wouldn't say so no. But the other school's are certainly improving, as to be expected with the success of rugby in Leinster.

Squidgy Black

themont85 wrote: »

CBC Monkstown:rolleyes:

A lot of people have written CBC off already unfortunately and don't see any chance of them getting past Belvedere.

Inspector Coptoor

Cause they have no chance of beating Belvo

Zaga beat CBC by 8 points should have been 15 ou for a late consolation try.

Belvo beat Zaga 32-5.

Belvo by 50 tomorrow is my prediction

themont85

They are still in the competition.

CBC also lost 23-17 to the current toast of the town Roscrea, in the league quarter final in Roscrea.

Just think it's a bit unfair before the game has been played.

Inspector Coptoor

Until 4:20 tomorrow

themont85

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Until 4:20 tomorrow

No harm in a bit of respect for the kids actually playing the comp mate, no point in discussing it otherwise.

omb0wyn5ehpij9

I've seen both CBC and Belvo play, and I don't give any hope at all to CBC!

Inspector Coptoor

themont85 wrote: »

No harm in a bit of respect for the kids actually playing the comp mate, no point in discussing it otherwise.

Realism is realism

themont85

BDJW wrote: »

I've seen both CBC and Belvo play, and I don't give any hope at all to CBC!

Who says they'll win? Just saying it's a bit disrespectful to say they're out before the game has been played.

omb0wyn5ehpij9

themont85 wrote: »

Who says they'll win? Just saying it's a bit disrespectful to say they're out before the game has been played.

Are you trolling?
Every single day on this forum people comment on club, provisional, European and international matches. These people say that one team is going to beat another team and that team doesn't have any chance of winning...are all those people being disrespectful too?