Schools Cup 2014/2015 *mod warning post 1*

The Lost Sheep

bradders90 wrote: »

The Munster under 18's play Millfield? That's odd considering that Millfield is just a school - mind you a very good one and Munster are a whole province.
Didn't know about Blackrock playing any of them before the SCT, English schools rugby actually has quite good media coverage (albeit from 2 completely amateur online websites) and they haven't reported anything about Blackrock coming over and playing anyone.
I just thought a match of the like between two schools rugby juggernauts would be incredibly interesting

Not odd at all. Millfield have been in Limerick on pre season camps in August and the Under 18 schools, not Under 18s, provincial side have played them in pre season friendly.
Blackrock played Truro College Cornwall, connected to Exeter Chiefs and their academy, this year and every year play at least one of the top schools in England...

themont85

Monkstown played Milfield in Limerick this season so I imagine others did as well

https://twitter.com/tours4sport/status/501418497717862401

themont85

Snegg wrote: »

Just on Newbridge qualifying for the semi's three years in a row.
I think it is fair to say that the luck of the draw has favoured them hugely.

In 2013 they had KH in the first round, and Monkstown in the second round. A loss to either team would have been considered an upset. And that year had some exceptional teams such as Terenure, Roscrea, Rock and Michaels, who they eventually lost to. They avoided all of them until the semi's.
To be fair, they did only loose to Michaels by 4 points in the semi, but they scored a converted try in the dying minutes to make the scoreline look closer then the game actually was, and I don't think Michaels were ever going to loose that match.

I think 2014 was the strongest squad of the last 3 seasons. Again they played another school from the league, Roscrea and then a very weak Mary's side. Again, they were expected to beat both. That year they lost the semi to eventual winners Blackrock by 20 points.

Then this year, they beat Kilkenny very comfortably in the first round. And then a Andrew's side that was no where near as strong as it was the season before. Now they have Roscrea, who they narrowly beat in the league final. So this is their best chance of qualifying for the final. But I think the 3 other schools, CCR, CWC & Belvo would've all loved to face this Newbridge side in the semi.

So, to summarise. In the last 3 years, Newbidge have only faced one school from the so called "Big 6" prior to the semi-finals. And that was St.Mary's, and I think that no one will argue with the fact that Mary's probably shouldn't be considered a "Big 6" school at the moment (although they should've beaten Michaels this year). And in their last two semi's, I personnally don't feel that they ever looked like qualifying. And if Newbridge to bear Roscrea this year, I'd strongly favour either Clongowes or Belvo to win the competition.

Monkstown were favoured by the bookies in 2013 though that was because they beat a name, St Marys in the first round.

Getting to the semi finals 3 times in a row is a sign of consistency and huge improvement. A league side getting to the semis 10 years ago was considered a great achievement, 3 times in a row should be applauded. Generally speaking you would think that decent sides from a school come around every 5 or so years (not for Blackrock ever, not currently for Clongowes or St Michaels). You have to beat what's in front of you and Roscrea, Monkstown, KH, Kilkenny and Marys would be schools that they would generally be competitive against and historically games would go either way so continued winning is a good sign. Considering they lost a couple of their best players as well in 2013 to other schools it is a damn good achievement.

15Pete

How do people think the top Irish schools would fare against the best South African schools? Teams like Bishops and Grey College look to have bigger and more skillful players.

Hagz

I think the top English/New Zealand/South African schools would do a number on the top Irish schools to be honest.

The Pheasant2

Hagz wrote: »

I think the top English/New Zealand/South African schools would do a number on the top Irish schools to be honest.

Blackrock often play Kiwi and English schools - they beat Lindisfarne College (think Israel Dagg went there) handily enough iirc

Hagz

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

Blackrock often play Kiwi and English schools - they beat Lindisfarne College (think Israel Dagg went there) handily enough iirc

Yeah but I'm talking about the top schools. Lindisfarne are far from one of the top schools in NZ.

kingofthekong

Last year Blackrock hammered Ivybridge(part of the Exeter academy) , and DG Jansen a South African school who were ranked either 5th or 6th in South Africa , and beat Palmerstown North (New zealand school) .Take into account that Blackrock team were missing Jeremy Loughman , Jack power ,Caelan Doris and a few others for those games.

kingofthekong

I think last years Blackrock SCT with Timoney,o'connor, power, Loughman etc would give any school in the world a run for their money

RedemptionZ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iLppiDSuAo

This is Scots College in NSW Australia, wiped the pants off most of the teams they came across and similar enough to the Rock team of last year they 'recruited' a lot of star players from smaller schools. Were they to play the Rock team of last year I reckon if they could deal with Rock's pack(I think the forwards look noticeably smaller) they'd beat them without too much trouble, the skill level with ball in hand looks a lot higher than you'd see in schools rugby in Ireland. Now whether that's down to the opposition they're playing I don't know, but you could probably make the same argument for Blackrock considering how much better they were than most of the teams they came up against.

kingofthekong wrote: »

I think last years Blackrock SCT with Timoney,o'connor, power, Loughman etc would give any school in the world a run for their money

That said, I agree with this, as well as the Blackrock team of Conway and Macken and probably Clongowes team of 2011, of the recent teams would be formidable against any school. Still think the skill with the ball in hand is on another level in parts of the SH though.

ArmchairQB

If you enter any public park in New Zealnd at the weekend you are likely to see children from 5 upwards playing rugby. Minis rugby only refers to size over there as they play full rules, tackling, rucking, full contact etc. Awesome to see but their preperation at mini level is far superior to what we do and they develop their skill set a lot earlier than we do. We have the odd exceptionally talented players in every group but they have numerous exceptionally talented players in each group. If I was a betting man I would fancy top schools side in NZ to beat top schools side in Ireland 8 out of 10 times.

Bridge93

I think I remember seeing a documentary that revealed in NZ some schools offer rugby as a subject. I will assume it's not an exam subject but still shows what we are up against.

OceanSixteen

Ive heard Colm Mulcahy (13 from Clongowes) is out for the semi final due to knee injury

aspin

OceanSixteen wrote: »

Ive heard Colm Mulcahy (13 from Clongowes) is out for the semi final due to knee injury

Yes ACL

InsideatAnimo

Love the look of the new pitch at Donnybrook - has got to be upping the skill game somewhat.

1) Junior Cup quarters next week. Anyone so far spotted a talent who will step straight into the JCTs next year - not by virtue of say small schools with small panels sometimes requiring this - but by virtue of really being something special?


2) Senior Cup - is it Clongowes' full stop? Or which of the three black and whites are top threat?

Apart from Clongowes regularly making the decider; the others' 'recent' final appearances:
Belvo '08(W), '05(W) and '02(L)
Roscrea '11(L) and '99(L)
Bridge '96(L)

OceanSixteen

Article on the Irish Times refering to John Molony concussion in the St Michaels game, will to interesting to see if he will be playing against Belvedere

MightyJoeYoung

Hearing rumours that Newbridge college fourths will be playing Roscrea fourths as a precursor to the main event in Donnybrook on the 4th of march at 1pm. Can anyone confirm this?

Ed The Equalizer

OceanSixteen wrote: »

Article on the Irish Times refering to John Molony concussion in the St Michaels game, will to interesting to see if he will be playing against Belvedere

It's more than 3 weeks between the games - isn't that usually the timeframe?

Leinster5

Junior Cup 2nd round starts on Monday. Here are my predictions :

St. Michael's College v Belvedere College - Michael's
Castleknock College v Terenure College - Terenure
Presentation Bray v Cistercian College Roscrea - Roscrea
Blackrock College v Gonzaga College - Blackrock

ken76

I think Belvo will beat Michaels

milosh

I think Terenure are the only banker
Rock should beat Gonzaga but it won't be easy.
Belvedere might just have enough for Michaels but it could go either way.
Roscrea should account for Pres Bray but again it could go either way.

Inspector Coptoor

Ed The Equalizer wrote: »

It's more than 3 weeks between the games - isn't that usually the timeframe?

Concussion protocol is 22 days, which would make him available as its day 23.

However, afaik, that's 22 days from the date the concussion was diagnosed by a doctor, and player has to be declared fit to play on by day 22.

As of the irish times article the other day, Clongowes said he wasn't concussed.
Video evidence would seem to suggest otherwise.

Player welfare should be paramount

Quint2010

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Concussion protocol is 22 days, which would make him available as its day 23.

However, afaik, that's 22 days from the date the concussion was diagnosed by a doctor, and player has to be declared fit to play on by day 22.

As of the irish times article the other day, Clongowes said he wasn't concussed.
Video evidence would seem to suggest otherwise.

Player welfare should be paramount

Interesting article alright. The way it was written made the whole episode sound quite nasty and the injury quite serious.

Leinster5

ken76 wrote: »

I think Belvo will beat Michaels

Michael's beat them by 15+ points in Belvedere a few months ago. Michael's flanker is one of the best players in the competition according to a Belvo coach I know and he was saying how strong Michael's lineout and maul is. Time will tell.

FrannoFan

milosh wrote: »

I think Terenure are the only banker
Rock should beat Gonzaga but it won't be easy.
Belvedere might just have enough for Michaels but it could go either way.
Roscrea should account for Pres Bray but again it could go either way.

castleknock league winners so can't be written off even if Terenure are over all favorites at this point. Would hardly declare it a "banker"
Gonzaga to provide the shock and beat Rock. Underdogs but a really good side this year.
Michaels will beat Belvo
Agree about Roscrea. Pres Bray a decent side this year but Roscrea pack is massive.

The Lost Sheep

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Concussion protocol is 22 days, which would make him available as its day 23.

However, afaik, that's 22 days from the date the concussion was diagnosed by a doctor, and player has to be declared fit to play on by day 22.

As of the irish times article the other day, Clongowes said he wasn't concussed.
Video evidence would seem to suggest otherwise.

Player welfare should be paramount

Its 22 days from when concussion is diagnosed and player has to passed fit to play. Of course the school would say the player wasn't but hard to prove from just video evidence.

Any thoughts on the other provincial cups? Connacht/Munster/Ulster

Inspector Coptoor

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Its 22 days from when concussion is diagnosed and player has to passed fit to play. Of course the school would say the player wasn't but hard to prove from just video evidence.

Any thoughts on the other provincial cups? Connacht/Munster/Ulster

You said the exact same thing I said about the protocol, assuming he was diagnosed with concussion on the day in question, Sunday 8th Feb, he'd be fine to play on Tues 3rd March.

If he wasn't diagnosed, the protocols don't apply, rightly or wrongly

Tixel

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

You said the exact same thing I said about the protocol, assuming he was diagnosed with concussion on the day in question, Sunday 8th Feb, he'd be fine to play on Tues 3rd March.

If he wasn't diagnosed, the protocols don't apply, rightly or wrongly

This is true but it's the unfortunate case of a school putting the result of a sporting game ahead of the welfare of a child. He was definitely concussed.

Having said that is there is difference between 22 and 23 days in RTP protocol. Prob not much

But Clongowes won't have covered themselves in glory not substituting the boy v michaels. The damage is done and I think 100% of schools would play him if it was a one day difference in availability.

The Lost Sheep

Tixel wrote: »

This is true but it's the unfortunate case of a school putting the result of a sporting game ahead of the welfare of a child. He was definitely concussed.

Having said that is there is difference between 22 and 23 days in RTP protocol. Prob not much

But Clongowes won't have covered themselves in glory not substituting the boy v michaels. The damage is done and I think 100% of schools would play him if it was a one day difference in availability.

There is a difference as its there for a reason. Clongowes haven't covered themselves In glory at all.

Ulster schools cup 1/4s were on this morning... Any results?

joscol

Ulster Schools Cup 1/4 final results:

RBAI 23 Royal School Armagh 0
Coleraine AI 22 Omagh Academy 9
Campbell College 14 Methodist College 20
Ballyclare HS 3 Wallace HS 11

Semi final draw:

Coleraine Academical Institution v Royal Belfast Academical Institution
Methodist College v Wallace High School

RBAI and Wallace will be favourites to progress, although the Methody and Wallace game could be a close game.

leonard7

can't help but think methody will find a way again in the semi finals...just the belief. So many of them will have ravenhill experience from the last few years

ken76

Any Score in the Belvo v Michaels game?

Inspector Coptoor

Belvo 5-0 Michael's.
34 mins gone.

Good game, v tough conditions.

Michael's are bigger all over the pitch but Belvo soaking up the pressure well & caught them on counter attack

Inspector Coptoor

41 mins gone.
Still 5-0 to belvo.
Michael's were camped on Belvo line but Defence held firm.

Belvo scrum on their own 5m line

ken76

Are Bevo comfortable in defence? Or just holding on? how do you see it going?

Inspector Coptoor

Not comfortable but coping well.
V few defensive errors from Belvo.

Michael's are playing bosh rugby and not getting all their own way.

Belvo are the team with most clean line breaks and olaying Better attacking rugby.

Belvo to hold out for me

ken76

Thanks for the updates

Inspector Coptoor

Belvo over in the corner.
David Hawkshaw - playing at 10 today.

Conversion - missed by Lacey.

10-0 Belvo
10 mins to go

Inspector Coptoor

All over here

10-0 Belvo

Deserved winners.

Smaller, more skillful & inventive team who soaked up all the pressure in a very attritional encounter & counter attacked very well and used territory to their advantage with clever kicking from Hawkshaw & Lacey

OceanSixteen

Belvo for the double?

Inspector Coptoor

OceanSixteen wrote: »

Belvo for the double?

It's certainly not beyond the realms of possibility.
The Belvo SCT probably have the better chance than the JCT with Nure, Rock and Zaga as serious contenders in the JCT.

This is the 10 year anniversary of the last Belvo double so it would be fitting for a former rugby heavyweight school to awake from its slumber since 2008

TommyOM

Any potential Luke McGraths, Fitzgeralds, Kearneys, Healys in this years Leinster SCT?

FrannoFan

TommyOM wrote: »

Any potential Luke McGraths, Fitzgeralds, Kearneys, Healys in this years Leinster SCT?

James Ryan and max Deegan from michaels both look very good.
A few of the roscrea lads look handy.
Clongowes 8 and 7 both potential stars and only in fourth apparently.

ArmchairQB

FrannoFan wrote: »

James Ryan and max Deegan from michaels both look very good.
A few of the roscrea lads look handy.
Clongowes 8 and 7 both potential stars and only in fourth apparently.

Wasn't impressed with James Ryan this season at all, Deegan played well but not sure he is a team player. No real standouts this year still time in the semi's and final for a star or two to be born.

Espn88uk

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Wasn't impressed with James Ryan this season at all, Deegan played well but not sure he is a team player. No real standouts this year still time in the semi's and final for a star or two to be born.

St. Michaels under performance can't be blamed on Ryan, he wasn't a rampaging carrier because that isn't his game, he is a tall lean lock who need still needs to grow into his body. He has as much potential than any lock in recent memory and his pedigree is excellent(Leinster/Ireland schools as an u17 & u18, captain Ireland schools, Leinster u19 captain)
He is a certainty for Ireland under-19 this year and more than likely captain too, Deegan is a certainty for Ireland under-19 too.

Michaels had a lot of problems this season, neither of them were Ryan or Deegan, who both will push for the leinster academy next season and be central figure for Ireland under-20 next season.

TommyOM

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Wasn't impressed with James Ryan this season at all, Deegan played well but not sure he is a team player. No real standouts this year still time in the semi's and final for a star or two to be born.

It must be a bad crop so, usually you always have at least one player who people are talking about before a ball is even kicked and who from the very get go look to be a class above everyone.

Bridge93

Castleknock giving Nure a real go. 6-0 up just after ht it's now 7-6 Nure after 15 mins of the 2nd half

Bridge93

10-6 all over

FrannoFan

Castleknock all over Terenure today. Terenure scored a cracking break away try at 6-0 and in own 22 and under pressure. There was a knock on and it was flashed to the wing or fullback who chipped it on for the wing to gather. That made it 7-6. knock had a penalty just fall short. The final 3 points Terenure got was in last play of the game when Knock were trying to run it out of their own 22.
Terenure won't win Tournament based on today.
Castleknock can feel pretty disappointed with not seeing out the win.

Inspector Coptoor

TommyOM wrote: »

It must be a bad crop so, usually you always have at least one player who people are talking about before a ball is even kicked and who from the very get go look to be a class above everyone.

Or, are there just a lot of very good players with no
Real superstars among them?

There are a LOT of young 4th year players in a lot of the teams.
In 2 years time, they will be superstars.

Calling this year's players a bad crop is a ridiculously unfair statement