Mick Wallace and Clare Daly reportedly arrested at Shannon airport.

Specialun

was he wearing his pink TShirt?

bajer101

opinionated3 wrote: »

The majority of flights that come in are simply civilian jets carrying troops. They are operated by omni air international. Don't belive everything the shannonwatch crusties tell you

Crusties haven't told me anything. I have no problem with Shannon being used for legal purposes and I am sure that neither do Wallace or Daly. What I, and most people have a problem with is that Shannon may be used for illegal renditions. Wikileaks revealed that Dermot Ahearn was also convinced that Shannon was being illegally used. There is possible illegal action taking place and two elected representatives are trying to stop it and all some people can do is slag them off. Go figure.

Pumpkinseeds

How much will prosecuting them cost the taxpayer? They're a pair of attention whores. Are there not enough real issues they could be addressing, things that actually matter to the day to day lives of people living in this country? W*nkers.

gandalf

Shame they didn't get on one of the planes and get transported to Gitmo!! That would have been a win win situation

My name is URL

Judgement Day wrote: »

Perhaps Ireland could begin the 'war on terror' by protecting its airports from 80 year old women and hippy politicans. Don't make me laugh - Ireland's war on terror and we don't even have a clue who is coming in and out of the country.

haha.. great point

People will undoubtedly call for Wallace and Daly to be locked up over this, pretending that they give a **** about the laws of the land, while at the same time excusing the fact that the law of the land is routinely ignored and unenforced when Shannon is used by foreign militaries.

Ben D Bus

Specialun wrote: »

was he wearing his pink TShirt?

I should hope so - Hi-vis clothing is mandatory on the airfield

comongethappy

The sexual tension is driving them to do crazy things!

diomed

I'd say the mad trendy hair on Mick was a bit of a giveaway.

kneemos

My name is URL wrote: »

Are military aircraft usually inspected by Gardai or anyone to make sure there are no weapons on board when using the airport? How is that law enforced, or do they even bother trying to enforce it?

Is there a law,the soldiers are armed.What kind of weapons is the law for?

Gomer Pyle

Hand them both over to the US for attacking US Military.

EazyD

comongethappy wrote: »

I'm going to suggest as a counterpoint that the majority don't give a damn.

Thereby contradicting our status as a neutral. Ah but sure who gives a fiddlers about that?......

bajer101

opinionated3 wrote: »

How do you know what the majority think? Anyone I've talked to around my locality fully supports it. Just cos a shower of left wing crusties say something doesn't means it's accurate.

Because in successive opinion polls the majority have stated that they want to retain Irish neutrality. That stands up a bit more than what a few of your mates think. And do they really fully support illegal rendition?

comongethappy wrote: »

I'm going to suggest as a counterpoint that the majority don't give a damn.

I would say that quite a lot of people do give a damn. But regardless of numbers, Daly and Wallace give a damn and enough people voted for them to be elected.

wicklowstevo

comongethappy wrote: »

The sexual tension is driving them to do crazy things!

aye a lovely candle lit dinner in the cells for them
seriously its fairly blatant thought,
hope thier respective partners dont mind :pac::pac::pac::pac:

geeky

Bambi wrote: »

Just remembering all the people-who-know best on here that clucked and pishawed about mickah wallace banging on about the whistle blowers, who was proven right that time lads?

May his manky locks flow ever on through the corridors of power, for he is our jim garrison

Very sensible point. I disagree with a lot of Wallace's views - and cringe whenever I see him wandering about like a hobo - but his work on the Garda whistleblowers should earn him some credit.

Specialun

isn't wallace a hypocrite?

did he not benefit from garda leniency too?

comongethappy

EazyD wrote: »

Thereby contradicting our status as a neutral. Ah but sure who gives a fiddlers about that?......

Does it?

How exactly does that work?

Coat22

How can these people continue to hold public office after such behaviour? We’re the only “developed” nation where you can openly flaunt the laws you are hired to develop and uphold and yet hold onto your job.

Wallace is a convicted tax fraud and now this. Daly is a born attention seeker with little in the way of inteligence who wins voted with her populist stunts like Flanagan and the afore mentioned Wallace.

IF they are charged and found guilty then they should be removed from office. Not that it will make much difference – the good people of Wexford, Dublin South central (or wherever) and Roscomoon will probably then elect their children / partners to replace them and “stick it up to the establishment” or whatever their motives are.

Dictatorship is looking more and more attractive every day in this country,

AlanG

My name is URL wrote: »

haha.. great point

People will undoubtedly call for Wallace and Daly to be locked up over this, pretending that they give a **** about the laws of the land, while at the same time excusing the fact that the law of the land is routinely ignored and unenforced when Shannon is used by foreign militaries.

This is interesting. Could you explain which Law is being ignored and why the ongoing transit flights via Shannon are illegal. I am not talking about the rendition flights that may likely happened in the past. I cant find any statute that makes it illegal for foreign troops to transit through Irish ports. It would be great if you could expand on this.

The Caveman

Released without charge, and a file was sent someware to somebody about it

Wonder if the Girlfriend and I will be treated the same if we were to do it tomorrow....

comongethappy

The Caveman wrote: »

Released without charge, and a file was sent someware to somebody about it

Wonder if the Girlfriend and I will be treated the same if we were to do it tomorrow....

If your girlfriend is a 900 year old woman in a jumpsuit.... she will be lauded as a hero.

bajer101

comongethappy wrote: »

Does it?

How exactly does that work?

How does allowing Shannon be used a military hub affect out neutrality?? Seriously? I suppose if we also allowed any military aircraft from any country, carrying whatever, we could retain our neutrality that way. Mightn't be the best solution though. Although judging by some of the comments here apparently some people wouldn't mind as it might bring in a few more jobs!

Coat22

The Caveman wrote: »

Released without charge, and a file was sent someware to somebody about it

Wonder if the Girlfriend and I will be treated the same if we were to do it tomorrow....

I'd say so - yes

Awkward Badger

Say what ya want about them but they're not afraid to get their hands dirty. And the plain fact is that the Dail is better with those two in it than a couple party politicians nodding away with the Government.

comongethappy

bajer101 wrote: »

How does allowing Shannon be used a military hub affect out neutrality??

Yes.... That's the question I'd like you to answer.

A plane of soldiers watching movies & reading books stops in Shannon for fuel.... Ergo, Ireland is no longer neutral..... Its a stretch.

I'm just seeking confirmation.... Perhaps from statute.... or any legal definition.

diomed

The Dáil only went on holidays on 18th July. Do they have to write a composition "What I did on my summer holidays" when they get back?
http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article9233996.ece/binary/original/web-school-children-alamy.jpg

My name is URL

AlanG wrote: »

This is interesting. Could you explain which Law is being ignored and why the ongoing transit flights via Shannon are illegal. I am not talking about the rendition flights that may likely happened in the past. I cant find any statute that makes it illegal for foreign troops to transit through Irish ports. It would be great if you could expand on this.

There are strict conditions attached to the use of Shannon by foreign militaries. One of which is that persons passing through the airport are prohibited (or supposedly at least) from being armed.

Tánaiste and Foreign Affairs Minister Eamon Gilmore has confirmed that a US aircraft landed at Shannon Airport armed with a ‘weapon’, in contravention of strict conditions for such landings in Ireland.

These conditions include that the military aircraft landing here are unarmed, carry no arms, ammunition, or explosives, do not engage in intelligence gathering, and that the flights in question do not form any part of military exercises or operations

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/us-plane-landed-at-shannon-armed-with-weapon-admits-gilmore-246664.html

I asked if Gardai or anybody else inspects planes to make sure they are not carrying arms. A reasonable question imo.

Davarus Walrus

The hack of Wallace and Daly. It's utterly preposterous that Mork and Mindy are somehow seen as being figureheads of a legitimate protest movement. This action is the type of thing that appeals to crusty malcontents, but causes the majority to immediately discount their actions as those carried out by beatniks looking to massage their own egos'.

EazyD

comongethappy wrote: »

Does it?

How exactly does that work?

Thought it was pretty obvious to be honest. By allowing U.S military to utilise our airports as a drop-off hub for troops, military aircraft and above all weaponry.

Judgement Day

Coat22 wrote: »

How can these people continue to hold public office after such behaviour? We’re the only “developed” nation where you can openly flaunt the laws you are hired to develop and uphold and yet hold onto your job.

Wallace is a convicted tax fraud and now this. Daly is a born attention seeker with little in the way of inteligence who wins voted with her populist stunts like Flanagan and the afore mentioned Wallace.

IF they are charged and found guilty then they should be removed from office. Not that it will make much difference – the good people of Wexford, Dublin South central (or wherever) and Roscomoon will probably then elect their children / partners to replace them and “stick it up to the establishment” or whatever their motives are.

Dictatorship is looking more and more attractive every day in this country,

Mick Wallace was NOT convicted of tax fraud. He made a settlement with the revenue commissioners. Why not check your facts instead of perpetuating this rubbish. I presume from the rest of your post it's an FF Dictatorship you would favour - we've had that.

comongethappy

EazyD wrote: »

Thought it was pretty obvious to be honest. By allowing U.S military to utilise our airports as a drop-off hub for troops, military aircraft and above all weaponry.

No... It'd not obvious.

How does transiting troops or kit legally change a nations military alignment?

Coat22

Awkward Badger wrote: »

Say what ya want about them but they're not afraid to get their hands dirty. And the plain fact is that the Dail is better with those two in it than a couple party politicians nodding away with the Government.

At least the couple of party eejits would form part of a group with actual policies ands strategies on issues rather than “down with this sort of thing” and “lets just tax the rich” and “sure we’ll just not pay our debts”

Agreed they could be hopeless eejits but at least they’d be penned in by a political party with some inteligent policies and advisers

EazyD

comongethappy wrote: »

No... It'd not obvious.

How does transiting troops or kit legally change a nations military alignment?

You don't think facilitating military logistics (weaponry) in someway de-bases that status?

jimboblep

My name is URL wrote: »

haha.. great point

People will undoubtedly call for Wallace and Daly to be locked up over this, pretending that they give a **** about the laws of the land, while at the same time excusing the fact that the law of the land is routinely ignored and unenforced when Shannon is used by foreign militaries.

what exact law is being broken

bajer101

AlanG wrote: »

This is interesting. Could you explain which Law is being ignored and why the ongoing transit flights via Shannon are illegal. I am not talking about the rendition flights that may likely happened in the past. I cant find any statute that makes it illegal for foreign troops to transit through Irish ports. It would be great if you could expand on this.

Here's the problem, we just can't be sure if there are laws being broken, because we just rely on the American's soft assurances that no laws are being broken - the same assurances that they gave us when they clearly were breaking international law. Amnesty have reported that Shannon was used for renditions and we still have no way to know who or what is on those planes that land in our country.

Another potential problem is that a lot of people view the occupation of Iraq as illegal or that there are certainly a lot of illegal acts carried out in Iraq (and Afghanistan) and that by allowing Shannon to be used a military hub we are tacitly giving our approval.

comongethappy wrote: »

Yes.... That's the question I'd like you to answer.

A plane of soldiers watching movies & reading books stops in Shannon for fuel.... Ergo, Ireland is no longer neutral..... Its a stretch.

I'm just seeking confirmation.... Perhaps from statute.... or any legal definition.

Are you serious? Ok, well I'll put it to you another way. If Ireland had allowed military stopovers by Nazi Germany in WWII, do you think that would have affected our neutrality?

kneemos

EazyD wrote: »

Thought it was pretty obvious to be honest. By allowing U.S military to utilise our airports as a drop-off hub for troops, military aircraft and above all weaponry.

Military aircraft without weaponry?
I doubt anybody's checking.

comongethappy

EazyD wrote: »

You don't think facilitating military logistics (weaponry) in someway de-bases that status?

Not at all.

And I'd love someone to show the codex of Intl law that says it does

Whether US, Russian, Chinese, South Sudanese troops transit through Shannon, it doesn't change neutrality status one bit.

And your welcome to prve that wrong factually & legally, no conjecture.

bajer101

jimboblep wrote: »

what exact law is being broken

Renditions, which are illegal under international law.

Coat22

Judgement Day wrote: »

Mick Wallace was NOT convicted of tax fraud. He made a settlement with the revenue commissioners. Why not check your facts instead of perpetuating this rubbish. I presume from the rest of your post it's an FF Dictatorship you would favour - we've had that.

Apologies – he was not convicted (as the fraud was through a company rather than by an individual) but he “admitted knowingly under declaring his VAT liability” – ie admitted to fraud. In fairness to him if you can get away with it (as you clearly can) then sure its worth a go.

I’d actually have liked a PD dictatorship but they weren’t populist enough. FF (and dear old Bertie) were exactly that (populist) which is why we got years of them.

My name is URL

jimboblep wrote: »

what exact law is being broken

I'm not a judge. I asked if Gardai inspect planes to make sure that laws are not being broken.

Conditions apply to the use of Shannon airport. Who is ensuring that those conditions are met?

Larbre34

In fairness Mick Wallace is consistent, peaceful resistance and obstruction of the war machine is always his top priority - so long as it doesnt clash with the World Cup, champions league or Wexford Youths games.

Cretin.

jimboblep

bajer101 wrote: »

Renditions, which are illegal under international law.

have you any proof of that beyond an assumption
i have already seen the case in new york about the possibility that it may of happened with all the maybes and possiblys so you can discount that
fact is if their was hard evidence it would of already been used by a protest group

y0ssar1an22

From Wikipedia:

Ireland

The government of Republic of Ireland has come under internal and external pressure to inspect airplanes at Shannon Airport to investigate whether or not they contain extraordinary rendition captives.[120][121] Police at Shannon said that they had received political instruction not to approach, search or otherwise interfere with US aircraft suspected of being involved in extraordinary rendition flights. Irish Justice Minister Dermot Ahern sought permission from the US for random inspection of US flights, to provide political "cover" to him in case rendition flights were revealed to have used Shannon; he believed at least three flights had done so.[122] Ireland has been censured by the European Parliament for its role in facilitating extraordinary rendition and taking insufficient or no measures to uphold its obligations under the UN CAT.[123]

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition#Ireland

bajer101

comongethappy wrote: »

Not at all.

And I'd love someone to show the codex of Intl law that says it does

Whether US, Russian, Chinese, South Sudanese troops transit through Shannon, it doesn't change neutrality status one bit.

And your welcome to prve that wrong factually & legally, no conjecture.

"the policy or status of a nation that does not participate in a war between other nations: the continuous neutrality of Switzerland."

By allowing one side in a conflict to use your airfields, you are participating. You won't see Switzerland allowing its airports be used for military stopovers.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/neutrality

RayM

Back in 2003, Enda Kenny and Fine Gael voted against allowing the US to use Shannon. Bertie Ahern leaned very heavily on (and more than likely offered all kinds of sweeteners to) any Fianna Fail backbenchers who opposed the motion. In the end, the Fianna Failers all voted with the government, sticking two fingers up at the 100,000 Irish people who marched against the war. I presume, since becoming Taoiseach, Enda Kenny has had a similar change of heart.

Also in 2003, Mick Wallace put up a huge banner on his building site on Ormond Quay - "We have the blood of Iraqi children on our hands"

Say what you like about Wallace, but unlike most of the political establishment, at least he's consistent. At least he stands for something.

jimboblep

My name is URL wrote: »

I'm not a judge. I asked if Gardai inspect planes to make sure that laws are not being broken.

Conditions apply to the use of Shannon airport. Who is ensuring that those conditions are met?

you did say the laws were being routinely broken i presumed you had evidence beyond an assumption.
just because their is the potential for a law to be broken doesnt mean it actually is

SpaceTime

While I don't agree with the situation at Shannon, it also exposes our airports as being way too insecure.

Could we not put up some proper fences?

A somewhat 'unhinged' gentleman managed to hijack a car and drive into Cork Airport's apron and then hijack a 4x4 and drive around like a maniac under parked up, fully fuelled planes a few years ago.

eeepaulo

jimboblep wrote: »

have you any proof of that beyond an assumption
i have already seen the case in new york about the possibility that it may of happened with all the maybes and possiblys so you can discount that
fact is if their was hard evidence it would of already been used by a protest group

Thats the point though, there is no proof because we do not know what is in them.

Lets just trust america, they are the good guys after all.

30txsbzmcu2k9w

So many shallow responses in here.
Just sums up the spineless nature of the nation.
Everyone losing their sh¡t cos they've climbed a fence. Do really care or is it just an excuse to shout "Crusty!" and have a go at protestors?

Any politician with some semblance of conscience and the will to do something about it is good in my book, even if it means rattling a few cages.

Awkward Badger

Coat22 wrote: »

At least the couple of party eejits would form part of a group with actual policies ands strategies on issues rather than “down with this sort of thing” and “lets just tax the rich” and “sure we’ll just not pay our debts”

Agreed they could be hopeless eejits but at least they’d be penned in by a political party with some inteligent policies and advisers

Making them utterly redundant given the government would have the majority anyway. I'd rather some decent individuals in opposition to challenge the government and hold them to account which Daly and Wallace have done on certain issues than a couple pointless party head bobbers.

bajer101

jimboblep wrote: »

have you any proof of that beyond an assumption
i have already seen the case in new york about the possibility that it may of happened with all the maybes and possiblys so you can discount that
fact is if their was hard evidence it would of already been used by a protest group

Amnesty believe it.

http://www.amnesty.ie/content/rendition-flights

"The Council of Europe and European Parliament inquiries have identified Shannon airport as a stopover point in the US renditions programme. Ireland was one of the countries named in a 2006 report by Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembly rapporteur Dick Marty as having passively colluded in US renditions by allowing Shannon Airport to be used by aircraft linked with renditions without restriction or oversight."

http://www.shannonwatch.org/page/shannon-and-renditions

http://assembly.coe.int/main.asp?Link=/committeedocs/2006/20060606_ejdoc162006partii-final.htm

I'd say that's fairly conclusive.